35 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Do you guys judiciously build a mech to utilize its quirks even though you think a different weapon system could be better?

For e.g., the RFL Dao Breaker has a IS AC5 cooldown of 10%. I think the following build would be better...

1. LE 250
2. Ferro and Endo Steel
3. Max armour except for the head
4. 3 RAC 2 with 4 tons of ammo
5. 3 ER SL

What do you guys think?

[El Bandito]

Depends on the quirk value. If a mech has +15% or more positive quirk on weapons that matter, then I will try to build the mech around the weapon.

+10% not so much.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 November 2018 - 06:05 AM.

[Brauer]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 November 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

Do you guys judiciously build a mech to utilize its quirks even though you think a different weapon system could be better?

For e.g., the RFL Dao Breaker has a IS AC5 cooldown of 10%. I think the following build would be better...

1. LE 250
2. Ferro and Endo Steel
3. Max armour except for the head
4. 3 RAC 2 with 4 tons of ammo
5. 3 ER SL

What do you guys think?

It depends on the mech. Often it doesn't make sense to pay attention to quirks, particularly on most clan omnis. On some mechs like the Legend Killer and the Trebuchet-7M the best build uses the quirks to punch above its weight, but the quirks are pretty significant.

Regarding this exact build, I don't have that rifleman so I can't really say if it is worth using the quirks. I can't stand RACs in general so for that reason alone I would likely not use your RAC2 build. The Rifleman can be pretty squishy too so having to stare at the enemy can be a problem. My best Rifleman builds use an XL, so you might take a look at the builds you can manage with that. Since you want to abuse those high mounts using an xl is not typically as big of a liability for this mech as others.

If you have the cbills though give it a shot and see how you do. I usually experiment a bit with new mechs before settling on a build, unless it is standard laser vom or a build shared by someone else.

Edited by Brauer, 20 November 2018 - 06:02 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 November 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

1. LE 250
2. Ferro and Endo Steel
3. Max armour except for the head
4. 3 RAC 2 with 4 tons of ammo
5. 3 ER SL

Rifleman is not the best chassis for rac2s. Bad convergence, broad torsos, no velocity quirks. Why use it at all?

You'd be better off using Hunchback 4G, Shadowhawk 2H, Dragon 5N, or Marauder 3R. Maybe some of the bushies and champions but I dont know which ones.

[Daurock]

Depends heavily on specific mech, and just how powerful of a quirk is there. If the Build fits the mech well, and the quirk also is pretty potent, it makes it a decent machine. And i'll build specifically for it.
A couple of examples of this are the Ebon Jag-D, (Set-of-8 UAC quirk) and the new Awesome (H)PPC quirk.

Other times I've found that a specific quirk can be made useful, but are not required. For these mechs, I do have useful loadouts using them, but also have good builds that don't at all.
One unique, and a little surprising example of this is the Bushwacker-P1. The usual builds are simple SRM-Bombers, and are obviously very strong. However, the Ballistic Cooldown Quirk works quite well with an LB-10 Build, allowing it to Sync up almost effortlessly with a set of SRM-2s. When used in this fashion, you have a mech pushing a ton of DPS at the cost of some alpha. Very effective.

There are mechs I pretty much ignore quirks on too. The warhammer, and marauder, for example have strong PPC quirks, but have so many other, better builds, that I can't find a decent one revolving around those quirks. Same goes for (Most) Omni's, and honestly most clan mechs in general.

Bottom line - Quirks are useful, but generally not something I find myself shoehorned into using at the moment.

Edited by Daurock, 20 November 2018 - 07:05 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Brauer, on 20 November 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

Regarding this exact build, I don't have that rifleman so I can't really say if it is worth using the quirks. I can't stand RACs in general so for that reason alone I would likely not use your RAC2 build. The Rifleman can be pretty squishy too so having to stare at the enemy can be a problem. My best Rifleman builds use an XL, so you might take a look at the builds you can manage with that. Since you want to abuse those high mounts using an xl is not typically as big of a liability for this mech as others.

Out of curiosity, why don't you like RACs? I'll look into the XL engine. The reason I didn't want to use is that even if I lose a ST, I'd like to continue fighting. I'd probably protect the 2 RACs on my RH and lose the LT and keep fighting.

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 November 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

Rifleman is not the best chassis for rac2s. Bad convergence, broad torsos, no velocity quirks. Why use it at all?

You'd be better off using Hunchback 4G, Shadowhawk 2H, Dragon 5N, or Marauder 3R. Maybe some of the bushies and champions but I dont know which ones.

The Hunchback and Shadowhawk are very good choices indeed. The high mounts will help. The reason I'm trying to figure out a build for the Dao Breaker is 'cause I got that from the Solaris 7 pack. The default loadout was 2 LL, 2 AC5 and some medium lasers with low armour. I didn't like that at all. I thought about UAC 5's but then RACs showed higher DPS and the firepower rating said 100-something with the loadout that I've planned.

[Brauer]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 November 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you like RACs? I'll look into the XL engine. The reason I didn't want to use is that even if I lose a ST, I'd like to continue fighting. I'd probably protect the 2 RACs on my RH and lose the LT and keep fighting.

Using an LFE definitley makes more sense for a RAC build. I have a laser vom Rigleman and the LBX10 Legend Killer. I want the speed on both and just try not to get exposed to too much return fire. Obviously this is harder with the LK as it needs to be closer. If you swapped tp an XL you might try a UAC build or something a bit more pokey.

I don't like RACs because the spread, jams, and spin up time all combine to lead to very little effective damage a lot of the time. They feel quite situational. You can't really trade, and fghting lights woth them is often rough. You need big targets that will remain exposed. I haven't personally found a viable niche that they seem to fille better than UACs, LBXs, MRMs or any number of other weapons.

[Daurock]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 November 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you like RACs? I'll look into the XL engine. The reason I didn't want to use is that even if I lose a ST, I'd like to continue fighting. I'd probably protect the 2 RACs on my RH and lose the LT and keep fighting.

Nothing inherently wrong with RACs, but you really want to be using a chassis that compliments the Face-Timey nature of the weapon. The Bushwacker, and Marauder do this well due to armor quirks, and a front geometric profile that is hard to isolate a specific section. You could make a case for the Hunchback maybe too. However, the broad, relatively fragile Rifleman chassis doesn't make it a really good fit for RACs.

That being said, the big thing that the rifleman chassis has going for it is that good-sized RANGE quirk. Couple that range with an XL engine, and some long range weaponry to go with those high mounts, and stay at range with it. An XL engine, coupled with something like twin AC5, twin ERLL, or triple UAC2 are gonna be the order of the day.

[Pain G0D]

Yes and No , I sometimes I buy mechs for quirks and sometimes for their hard points

If weapon hardpoints clearly work better for something not quirk related I do that .
Bushwacker P1 is a perfect example of this .

Sometimes i want to buy a specific mech for a certain build/role then i go quirk hunting on variants .
I wanted a sniper crab once and the Crab 27 has range quirks . YAY

[Xeno Phalcon]

Usually I like to play into the quirks to add to the edge they offer, but in the case of my current favorite I took my kintaro's missile cooldown and missile heat quirks to free up some of the weapons tree to improve mobility.

[IronWatch]

There are some pretty tremendous quirks but since switching to mainly clan mechs and their rather spartan approach to handing out quirks, they've become a lot less impoetant to the build. If its a heavy bonus like 10%+ then I'll knuckle down and build around it.

[MechaBattler]

Yeah 10% is kinda take it or leave. Why I hardly used modules back in the day. Unless it was for a build that was super boaty. Like stacking LPLs on Banshee 3M.

But 15% hits the sweet spot combined with skills. Especially if you can boat MRMs.

[Ilfi]

Hitboxes and hardpoints usually play a bigger role than quirks. The big exceptions to this is the Vindicator and Orion (along with other mega-quirked robutts), which have insane bonkers amazing quirks that completely change the potential of the Mech. An MRM40 Vindicator has enough quirk power to outdo most 55-tonners.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2018 - 05:55 AM, said:

Depends on the quirk value. If a mech has +15% or more positive quirk on weapons that matter, then I will try to build the mech around the weapon.

+10% not so much.

It's not just about the % but also about the specific type. For example -10% energy heat is one of the strongest quirks in the game, while -10% missile cooldown can be safely ignored.

[Mole]

Usually I have a build in mind before I even know what the quirks are. I don't tend to build toward quirks unless they're an extremely significant quirk, and the way PGI has been slowly toning down quirks the extremely significant quirks hardly exist anymore. I usually build what I want, and if the quirks work for what I had in mind then great. The only other instance I would build around quirks is if I'm stuck on ideas for a build.

[Ruccus]

A point to mention is that the Dao Breaker doesn't have a 10% AC5 cooldown quirk, it has a 10% general cooldown quirk and an additional 5% AC5 cooldown quirk. With RACs not affected by cooldown that means the Dao Breaker isn't an ideal mech for RACs.

Here are some Dao Breaker build ideas:

DAO BREAKER (AC20+4 MLs)
DAO BREAKER (triple AC5)
DAO BREAKER (dual AC10)
DAO BREAKER (dual Heavy PPC)

The only weapons that don't take advantage of the Dao Breaker's 10% cooldown are the MGs in the HPPC build. The triple AC5 build makes use of the full 15% cooldown (10% general + 5% AC5).

[Nema Nabojiv]

Ruccus, on 20 November 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

The only weapons that don't take advantage of the Dao Breaker's 10% cooldown are the MGs in the HPPC build. The triple AC5 build makes use of the full 15% cooldown (10% general + 5% AC5).

Like your ac5 build. Probably not great damage output but it just feels right for that mech.

[Ruccus]

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 November 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

Like your ac5 build. Probably not great damage output but it just feels right for that mech.

The triple AC5 build is a nice second line mech that can do solid damage against enemies who are distracted by your teammates. It's pumping out 15 damage around every 1.4 seconds, which will add up if you can go unnoticed for several seconds.

I used a dual AC5 Blackjack and triple AC5 Jagermech back in the day and I found the range, heat, and rate of fire of AC5s make them a nice jack-of-all-trades weapon whether you find yourself sniping from a distance or brawling up close, and chain-firing the three AC5s is a nice nuisance if you're trying to stall a push by making them feel like they're taking more damage than they actually are. The build also works with light ferro and upping the engine to a 280XL, but you'd be opening up yourself to a death by side torso crit.

[Dee Eight]

I understand the desire to try and make the RFL-8D work SOMEHOW... even resorting to other weapons, but unless you plan to keep using it months down the road... there are often others in a chassis that can do the build in question better... or others at the same tonnage and tech base that do it better. If you really want a PPC poptart at 60 tons for the inner sphere, there's a quickdraw that'll do it better than the rifleman does it. If you want to run RACs, then the 8D only does a RAC5 build better. If you want RAC/2s, the Dragon 5N does it better. For starters its got better convergence with all 3 in the same location and it also has better ballistic range and velocity quirks, and I don't think a mere 10% extra rac jam rampdown time quirk is worth a more fragile and less agile mech.

Once I master my 8D(L), its gonna become a garage queen the same as my loyalty stalker is, and my griffin from last year, my urbie loyalty is, etc. I don't need the cbills and a bad loyalty mech is still just a bad loyalty mech to me.

Edited by Dee Eight, 20 November 2018 - 05:49 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

I just built an Urbie SC with RAC2 and some Med. Lasers with an XL180. I've yet to try it out but I had some C-bills laying around, so I went for it. After having maxed out the Revenant and Javelin, I'm looking for a nice, big ballistic mech to pilot. I have 3.9k MC but don't want to spend it unless there's a Hero mech that absolutely rocks a RAC build (I'm new and I don't know all the mechs). I've checked out the Shadowhawk and Hunchback and realized that the Hero variant of the Shadowhawk has only 1 ballistic hardpoint. I think the Dragon 5N isn't a Hero mech.

I think the RACs would suit me but I haven't been able to find a good mech with 3 ballistic hardpoints and decent speed to quickly flank an enemy push and defend the spot that my team's on. Which mech can go triple RACs and accommodate a good bit of armour and ammo and maybe a couple of JJ as well? I'm going through all the mech variants in the Mechlab site and trying out the builds there but there are a lot of mechs to check hehehe.