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Streak Summoner - Yay Or Nay?

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#1 Fieryeel

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 06:00 PM

Hi all, I just returned to MWO after 2.5 years so bear with me a bit.

What do you think of a streak boat, or a streak summoner? So far, I've had mixed results with him. I have had great games where he made a big difference, and games where no lights appeared and thus he had to trade hits miserably against heavies.

1) Would you be happy to see a streak boat in your team?

2) Is there a meta for a streak boat?

3) Is the Summoner a good streak boat?

4) Besides Beagle and JJ, are there are particular equipment to make me more effective at hunting down lights? I have heavy skill point investment in the Sensors skill tree.

5) Do Streaks benefit from Artemis?

Thank you.

#2 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:06 AM

I've never piloted a summoner, also, they are a rare view on the battlefield these days, but

4) Light Tag helps acquiring locks faster
5) No, Streaks don't benefit from Artemis IV

#3 latinisator

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 02:13 AM

View PostAidan Crenshaw, on 27 November 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

5) No, Streaks don't benefit from Artemis IV

I always thought SSRM with Artemis had a faster lock-on time. Or did PGI patch that away and I jsut don't recall? Hm..

Anyway, the SMN is a rare Mech to see indeed (I pilot mine once in a while, though).
As for your question: SSRM SMN like this?
SMN-PRIME

Well, the MadDog does it better. Even better is the Huntsman at it (8xASSRM4).

Imho, a SMN should be Laser, like this:
SMN-PRIME
(or go 6 ERML with more heat sinks)

or PPC / AC like this:
SMN-PRIME

Note: swap out omni pods for better quirks, I was just too lazy to do it right; esp. if you use the SSRM build (quirks like missile speed / spread on the right torso).

Edited by latinisator, 27 November 2018 - 02:17 AM.


#4 AnAnachronismAlive

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 02:27 AM

With the recent rise in light mechs on the battlefield, streakboats can have their moments. Kinda limits ye onto a very specific/niche-role within the game though. Kinda stickin with yer assaults and blastin em light flankers into oblivion once they approach (and they will).

Don't think a Summoner is needed for that role though, since there are faster/more agile chassis around to do the job. Ye often see Stormcrows with tons of missile hard points, beagle and a tag-laser around on clan-side ... and they wreak havoc on light harassers. Might even be of service to utilize an ecm-mech yourself, so you can switch it to countermode since lights often hunt in "ECM-packs" nowadays.

For anything else, Streaks are somewhat of a subpar-choice. While you can accumulate high-damage numbers in total, it is usually spread all over the place and therefore somewhat ineffective. Against mechs of the same or higher weight-class, you usually aint able to compete at all due to this lack of concentrated fire. Can work out in late game with a lot of open targets around, but until then you are a very "specific" addition to your team at best.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 27 November 2018 - 02:28 AM.


#5 Horseman

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:31 AM

View PostFieryeel, on 26 November 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

1) Would you be happy to see a streak boat in your team?
Sure, if it's used properly.

Quote

2) Is there a meta for a streak boat?
Run either an Active Probe or ECM. Bring your own TAG.

Quote

3) Is the Summoner a good streak boat?
No. Think medium mech. A heavy with this range won't do too well.

Quote

4) Besides Beagle and JJ, are there are particular equipment to make me more effective at hunting down lights?
TAG.

Quote

I have heavy skill point investment in the Sensors skill tree.
Target Decay, Target Retention, Velocity.

Quote

5) Do Streaks benefit from Artemis?
No.

View Postlatinisator, on 27 November 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

I always thought SSRM with Artemis had a faster lock-on time. Or did PGI patch that away and I jsut don't recall? Hm..
It was patched out in August. https://mwomercs.com...90-21-aug-2018/

#6 latinisator

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:36 AM

Dziekuje, Horseman! (That's about all my polish language skills.)

#7 Fieryeel

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:19 AM

View PostAnAnachronismAlive, on 27 November 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

With the recent rise in light mechs on the battlefield, streakboats can have their moments. Kinda limits ye onto a very specific/niche-role within the game though. Kinda stickin with yer assaults and blastin em light flankers into oblivion once they approach (and they will).

Don't think a Summoner is needed for that role though, since there are faster/more agile chassis around to do the job. Ye often see Stormcrows with tons of missile hard points, beagle and a tag-laser around on clan-side ... and they wreak havoc on light harassers. Might even be of service to utilize an ecm-mech yourself, so you can switch it to countermode since lights often hunt in "ECM-packs" nowadays.

For anything else, Streaks are somewhat of a subpar-choice. While you can accumulate high-damage numbers in total, it is usually spread all over the place and therefore somewhat ineffective. Against mechs of the same or higher weight-class, you usually aint able to compete at all due to this lack of concentrated fire. Can work out in late game with a lot of open targets around, but until then you are a very "specific" addition to your team at best.


How about a Pakhet Huntsman hero? Or is the Stormcrow a better streak boat?

#8 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:29 AM

I would say stick to mediums for streaking, strong enough to two tap squirrels but not taking up a heavy slot.

#9 Foxwalker

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:40 AM

Posted ImageI would say Streak Summoner is a fine choice. The Summoner's Jump mobility is a big plus for a Streak Boat. It is an excellent Pop-Tart, burst Damage build. I have one decked out with 3 X SSRM 6 and 2 X SSRM 4s.

The other option for the Summoner is 2 ERPPCs with lots of Heat Sinks. Again, Pop-Tart burst is it's forte. Always been one of my favorite Mechs.

Go for it.

Edited by Foxwalker, 27 November 2018 - 04:47 AM.


#10 Daggett

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:25 AM

View PostFieryeel, on 26 November 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

Hi all, I just returned to MWO after 2.5 years so bear with me a bit.

What do you think of a streak boat, or a streak summoner? So far, I've had mixed results with him. I have had great games where he made a big difference, and games where no lights appeared and thus he had to trade hits miserably against heavies.

1) Would you be happy to see a streak boat in your team?

2) Is there a meta for a streak boat?

3) Is the Summoner a good streak boat?

4) Besides Beagle and JJ, are there are particular equipment to make me more effective at hunting down lights? I have heavy skill point investment in the Sensors skill tree.

5) Do Streaks benefit from Artemis?

Thank you.

1) Usually in QP i don't care much for the builds in my team. It's about having fun in whatever halfway reasonable build you like, as long as you are willing to contribute to the win. And while streaks are ineffective against heavier targets, they have at least enough DPS to soften them up for me. Also having someone keeping the backstabbers in check can't hurt either. A good streak-boat pilot will probably help my team much more than a bad pilot running some meta build.

2) Every time a new powerful light like the Piranha is released, there is a meta for streak-boats during the first days/week. Apart from that streaks are not mandatory to hunt lights, so most players prefer weapons that are effective against heavier targets too like pulse lasers.

3) A Summoner will probably do it's work but for my taste it's a bit too slow for proper light hunting. Here i prefer the Arctic Wolf which is capable of running a similar streak payload than the Summoner, but with up to 120 kph untweaked.

4) Beagle (or ECM) is quite mandatory to counter enemy ECM, while JJ are more in the nice-to-have category if your mech is as fast as the ACW. On mechs slower than 100 kph however, JJ become more valuable. Sensors tree is a good investment for those seismic and target decay nodes, Velocity from firepower tree is really helpful too. Apart from that i guess there is not much left that's helpful. Maybe TAG, but good light pilots are usually zipping around too much to reliably tag them unless you have a steady hand.

5) Not anymore

View Postlatinisator, on 27 November 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

I always thought SSRM with Artemis had a faster lock-on time. Or did PGI patch that away and I jsut don't recall? Hm..

This was adressed in August patch:
"Additionally, the Artemis upgrade was also applying these benefits to ATM's and Streak Systems without any further cost investment to the base launchers. This change will close the Artemis loophole on those systems, making their overall performance no longer dependent on any kind of hidden mechanic / upgrade. ATM and Streak launchers will now behave identically to one another whether a 'Mech has an upgraded Artemis system or not."

Edited by Daggett, 27 November 2018 - 05:35 AM.


#11 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:39 AM

View Postlatinisator, on 27 November 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

I always thought SSRM with Artemis had a faster lock-on time. Or did PGI patch that away and I jsut don't recall? Hm..

PGI only recently fixed that loophole in this last patch or the one before. For 6 years before, it did.

Edit: Nevermind, I'm late to the party.

#12 Alfa Xim

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 10:01 AM

My first mech to buy was a Summoner D and i do not regret it,it have firepower,armor,speed,jumpjets,active prove and AMS.

I run like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...c78297f6f8d3a33

The bad counter is heat generation,but if you can manage it,it is very rewarding.

For streakmech i was undecided between this Summoner D or Sun Spider C,i go with the Summoner cus Sun Spider have less quirks and less technology components (AMS,jump jets,etc...)

The Sun Spider streak mech i had in mind was like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...f24eeb80ffe8cdf

It cost a little more of cbills but it is a good streak mech in my opinion.

If anyone says that my Summoner is bad,i do not care what you say,i usually prefer less firepower and more heat dissipation than a lot of heat and more firepower cus your mech can shutdown in a bad moment and the enemy get the kill. Just saying.

Edited by Alfa Xim, 08 December 2018 - 10:12 AM.


#13 tutzdes

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 12:28 PM

View PostAlfa Xim, on 08 December 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

If anyone says that my Summoner is bad,i do not care what you say,i usually prefer less firepower and more heat dissipation than a lot of heat and more firepower cus your mech can shutdown in a bad moment and the enemy get the kill. Just saying.

Your Summoner is bad, but not due to heat dissipation. You don't need neither as much of AMS ammo, nor HMG ammo. You turned your mech into walking bomb to sustain the weapons and systems this mech doesn't need (MGs are only good if you can mount at least 4-6 of them, AMS is not that useful for the mech as mobile as Summoner). If choosing the laser route I'd change side torso pods into energy ones (my go-to build was 2x Heavy Large Lasers in high side torso mounts and 4x ER Medium Lasers in the arms). If classic laservomit is too hot for you, you can always put 6x Medium Pulse Lasers into it and call it a day(+-same damage as your laser combo, much better burn time, almost twice rate of fire).

Summoner definitely can work as a streak boat (JJs are important for this role), Sun Spider is less so due to worse agility and no jump capability. Beware though, streakboats really struggle vs bigger durable mechs due to inability to focus components, so you're kinda doomed to hunt down lights and mediums (that's why mobility is so important for streaks).

#14 Alfa Xim

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:09 AM

View Posttutzdes, on 08 December 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Your Summoner is bad, but not due to heat dissipation. You don't need neither as much of AMS ammo, nor HMG ammo. You turned your mech into walking bomb to sustain the weapons and systems this mech doesn't need (MGs are only good if you can mount at least 4-6 of them, AMS is not that useful for the mech as mobile as Summoner). If choosing the laser route I'd change side torso pods into energy ones (my go-to build was 2x Heavy Large Lasers in high side torso mounts and 4x ER Medium Lasers in the arms). If classic laservomit is too hot for you, you can always put 6x Medium Pulse Lasers into it and call it a day(+-same damage as your laser combo, much better burn time, almost twice rate of fire).

Summoner definitely can work as a streak boat (JJs are important for this role), Sun Spider is less so due to worse agility and no jump capability. Beware though, streakboats really struggle vs bigger durable mechs due to inability to focus components, so you're kinda doomed to hunt down lights and mediums (that's why mobility is so important for streaks).

I know that someone with his wisdom will say something like that. Sorry i feel good with my actual Summoner D and HMGs can destroy internals quick. Also putting more lasers turn my mech into a vulcan,with very low heat dissipation. AMS ammo is right for me cus i not only protect me,but also my team mates from enemy missiles,so i need ammo. My mech is a support mech with moderate damage dealing,and i am fine with that.

#15 Daggett

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:35 AM

View PostAlfa Xim, on 09 December 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

I know that someone with his wisdom will say something like that. Sorry i feel good with my actual Summoner D and HMGs can destroy internals quick. Also putting more lasers turn my mech into a vulcan,with very low heat dissipation. AMS ammo is right for me cus i not only protect me,but also my team mates from enemy missiles,so i need ammo. My mech is a support mech with moderate damage dealing,and i am fine with that.

To be honest since you are posting in another one's thread, it's only fair to point out drawbacks on your builds so that the OP knows what he can expect instead of wasting money on a mech which may be fine for you but not for someone who seeks more effective builds.

So we don't care what you will do with our feedback and how you justify your build decisions. If it works for you and you don't have higher ambitions, great. But that does not mean that your builds are good enough for everyone else.

We veterans are here to give hints to new players on how to improve in the game, not to talk down your pet build just for the fun of it.

My advice for you (and anyone who feels addressed) is to learn heat- and ammo management. Having 80%+ cooling efficiency and an abundance of ammo is way too much on most builds because it's very rare that you can fire non-stop for minutes to make use of all that stuff. At least in slower mechs it's much more safe and effective to deal more damage in short time-frames and then cooldown during repositioning instead of tickling the enemy nonstop.

One reason why players emphasise cooling and ammo may be lack of proper aim. If one can't hit a barn door and is unwilling to do some aiming practice then of cause being able to spray bullets nonstop with cooling and ammo can help to actually hit something.
But it's neither effective or efficient and should not be an advice to other players. Not saying that you are in that category, but if you need that much ammo and cooling you should think about analyzing some of your matches and if all that ammo is really doing any damage or if it just hits the dirt or sits there waiting for an MG-piranha to make you go boom.

BTW: At least in solo-QP there is no room for dedicated support mechs that trade lots of firepower for enhancing their team. AMS is fine, but even with 4t ammo it will not make any mech a support mech, especially not when the enemy does not have much LRMs or ATMs. Also carrying much more ammo and cooling than you ever need will support no one.
By all means, use AMS and about a ton of ammo for every AMS to help your team against missiles (more players should do that), but don't think you now have a support mech. You are still required to do an adequate amount of damage to win a match.

The best support mech is one that can kill enemies quickly.

Edited by Daggett, 09 December 2018 - 04:57 PM.


#16 Riink

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:38 AM

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 17 December 2018 - 10:56 AM.
unconstructive, replies removed, alternate forum accounts suspended


#17 tutzdes

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 11:34 AM

View PostAlfa Xim, on 09 December 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

I know that someone with his wisdom will say something like that. Sorry i feel good with my actual Summoner D and HMGs can destroy internals quick. Also putting more lasers turn my mech into a vulcan,with very low heat dissipation. AMS ammo is right for me cus i not only protect me,but also my team mates from enemy missiles,so i need ammo. My mech is a support mech with moderate damage dealing,and i am fine with that.

KFX-C - almost the same build on the 30t light mech. Which is a better support than your mech, due to 3xAMS and also with ECM for extra protection.

Actually it is a bad build, as support mechs are better with longer range weapons, so they can stay with the team and still deal damage.

For 70t mech combination of short-ish range weapons (HMLs) with ultra short range and pretty useless weapons (2xHMGs) and team support stuff (2xAMSs) is very weak. You either unable to deal damage (due to being with a team blob, which is most often mid-ranged), or your AMSs are not doing much due to you storming enemy flanks, and for a front line engagement your mech lacks the firepower badly with weird mix of burst damage looooong cooldown lasers and facetime knife-range HMGs.

Turning your mech into Vulcan may be a better idea, as this Vulcan will eat your current Summoner build alive without breaking a sweat.

View PostRiink, on 09 December 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

[Redacted]

You know, this is a "New player help" section. So we are trying our best to tell new players how to build mechs so they can have fun playing casually and not grind hard c-bills while trying to figure out working builds, and feeling like a fodder match after match. You know, testing builds is much easier for no-lifers with tons of kills, who have all the c-bills in the game and have nothing else to do, so they are good at least at that, lol.

Edited by draiocht, 17 December 2018 - 10:30 AM.
Quote Clean-up


#18 Daggett

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:25 PM

View PostAlfa Xim, on 09 December 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Also putting more lasers turn my mech into a vulcan,with very low heat dissipation.

Reading this again it just came to my mind that you probably not have heard of ghost heat yet?
There is a limit on how many similar weapons you are supposed to fire at the same time. If you go beyond that limit, you will receive a heat penalty which can indeed turn your mech into a volcano.
For heavy medium lasers this limit is 4. So if you add more and fire them all together then it's no wonder that you feel the need to equip as much heat sinks as possible.

In case this concept is new to you, here is a reference to the current ghost heat limits as well as more details:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...eapon_heatscale

https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127904-heat-scale-the-maths/

To avoid ghost heat you can stagger your shots by 0.5s.

Edited by Daggett, 09 December 2018 - 01:09 PM.


#19 justcallme A S H

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:49 PM

Can a SSRM Summoner work?

Yes. Very agile.

It's main issue is tonnage locked and therefore Ammo/Heat to an extent. Otherwise it can work, yes. Since the artemis changes though for low to middle skill players it is a lot harder to acquire and maintain a lock.

#20 Bloodwitch

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:07 PM

5 Missile hardpoint SMN is a juicy target, most folks know that if you shoot the torso "shoulder" missile mount, you gimp the mech about 60% firepower.

If i see such a mech, i nuke the left "extra size" shoulder. I'd assume everyone remotely understanding SMN will atempt the same.

That said, 5 SRM SMN is extremely fun to play as an extra jumpy SRM bomber. Streaks are soso, if you can aim, you might was well skip the transition and go for SRM instead. You might not be super effective versus lights but you are a threat to all enemies.

Edited by Kunato Developments, 10 December 2018 - 02:08 PM.






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