71 replies to this topic

[BIOHAZARD]

I am sure this has been mentioned a million times before, and there is a huge PUG population out there that will cry at the top of their lungs against it.

BUT

This is the only way to get more experienced players to WANT to stay in the game. Nothing else will work because the alternatives are dev intensive. We are talking about rebuilding this game instead, which is simply not going to happen.

PGI!

Just untie individual payouts after the match from team performance already!

This is a team game, in which we cannot choose our team. Half the time you wouldn't even WANT some of the people you end up with, to be on your team. And when you carry, and you loose, this makes the experience simply not worth your time.

Just untie what we get after the match! Pay everyone based on their individual performance, as if this was a won match every time. Or at least to the players, on the loosing side, that performed well enough to get the green arrow up score. Then the real tier 1 will not care anymore about pugstomps.

P.S. I will also take the 'I don't ever want to be with this dude on the same team again' button.

[Monkey Lover]

Everyone i know quiting isnt doing it because of rewards. They're leaving accounts with hundreds of mechs.

I personnaly dont care if this was changed i see the good and bad of both sides.

[Maddermax]

The problem is if you detach entirely the team win from rewards, then you will reward even more those who play for personal stats over helping the team win. People who come in fresh late, people who hide behind others habitually (rather than just when needed), and so on, who race the Nascar and don’t look out for friends. These things all happen, but shouldn’t be rewarded over helping the team win on a team game.

Edited by Maddermax, 21 November 2018 - 01:35 AM.

[RJF Volkodav]

I dont care about rewards. Fix matchmaker instead pls.

Edited by RJF Volkodav, 21 November 2018 - 02:53 AM.

[Vellron2005]

BIOHAZARD, on 21 November 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

I am sure this has been mentioned a million times before, and there is a huge PUG population out there that will cry at the top of their lungs against it.

BUT

This is the only way to get more experienced players to WANT to stay in the game. Nothing else will work because the alternatives are dev intensive. We are talking about rebuilding this game instead, which is simply not going to happen.

PGI!

Just untie individual payouts after the match from team performance already!

This is a team game, in which we cannot choose our team. Half the time you wouldn't even WANT some of the people you end up with, to be on your team. And when you carry, and you loose, this makes the experience simply not worth your time.

Just untie what we get after the match! Pay everyone based on their individual performance, as if this was a won match every time. Or at least to the players, on the loosing side, that performed well enough to get the green arrow up score. Then the real tier 1 will not care anymore about pugstomps.

P.S. I will also take the 'I don't ever want to be with this dude on the same team again' button.

Match payouts already are dependent on your performance.. the only difference is if you get the WIN or the LOSS prize.. everything else is the same, regardless of win or loss.. If you do well, you can get more money on a loss than if you do average on a win..

Problem is, if you get a loss, it's often a stomp.. which means, the game is over quickly, and you probably didn't have enough time to farm the enemy, so you don't get as much, because, inherently, you won't do as good.

Also, if you detach earnings from the win, then you kill what little teamwork there is in the game, since everyone will just statpad..

Although I understand the desire for "never play with this person again", and I've actually suggested this myself before, sadly, the game has so few players now that pretty soon it would be like, you and 5-6 other people..

So in conclusion.. I understand your frustration but... tough. Adapt, survive, thrive.

[Peter2k]

As a 6 year old vet, I'm not quitting because of a lack of income.

Hell I haven't even used half my banked premium time.

Maybe they should reset tier, unlock it from the teams perfomance and be more aggressive about losing tier
Maybe then I'd have more fun playing again.

But ehh, will see in a few days what, if anything, PGI has in store for MWO



Also on a loss you get less payout because it's most likely a stomp and you didn't do 1k damage
The win bonus PGI put in is rather low

Maddermax, on 21 November 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

The problem is if you detach entirely the team win from rewards, then you will reward even more those who play for personal stats over helping the team win. People who come in fresh late, people who hide behind others habitually (rather than just when needed), and so on, who race the Nascar and don’t look out for friends. These things all happen, but shouldn’t be rewarded over helping the team win on a team game.

Isn't the win bonus only 50k C-Bills?
What you want is changing some of the rewards you get ingame for team play and maybe add some more

A sizable bump to spotting assist comes to mind
Or the TAG bonus, or AMS bonus

Edited by Peter2k, 21 November 2018 - 04:38 AM.

[El Bandito]

RJF Volkodav, on 21 November 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

I dont care about rewards. Fix matchmaker instead pls.

It can't be fixed. It can be improved but never fixed with current population. Even 10x population than now is not gonna fix it.

[IronWatch]

Can't break even launchin a UAV? Are you even managing ~200 damage a match or what playstyles are you using that give you such a low team score even on a loss?

[mad kat]

IronWatch, on 21 November 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

Can't break even launchin a UAV? Are you even managing ~200 damage a match or what playstyles are you using that give you such a low team score even on a loss?

Psst tis the internet...It was Sarcasm.

But even with some rofl stomps you can just get 50k

[Nightbird]

A tiny amount of payout is from the match result, 90% is from your personal performance. It's what... 35k for a win 15k for a loss? A difference of just 20k.

El Bandito, on 21 November 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

It can't be fixed. It can be improved but never fixed with current population. Even 10x population than now is not gonna fix it.

Depends on how you define "fixed". If "fixed" is making the best match-up possible with the people in queue, then yes, it can be fixed.

[El Bandito]

Nightbird, on 21 November 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

Depends on how you define "fixed". If "fixed" is making the best match-up possible with the people in queue, then yes, it can be fixed.

That's just improved. With current population even the best match up in average day is not gonna be balanced.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 21 November 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

That's just improved. With current population even the best match up in average day is not gonna be balanced.

So because you want the population fixed, you don't want the matchmaker fixed? That's putting the cart before the horse, since the matchmaker is the #1 reason that people quit MWO.

Your claim that the current population is insufficient to create balanced matches is false statistically.

Edited by Nightbird, 21 November 2018 - 07:50 AM.

[LordNothing]

matchmaker and population are kind of mutually exclusive, you cant have one without the other. it might already be too late to fix it.

[El Bandito]

Nightbird, on 21 November 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

So because you want the population fixed, you don't want the matchmaker fixed? That's putting the cart before the horse, since the matchmaker is the #1 reason that people quit MWO.

Your claim that the current population is insufficient to create balanced matches is false statistically.

That's you erroneously inferring things from what I said. I'm saying that any attempts will at best improve the MM, but cannot fix it with current population--I never said I don't want PGI to try to make the MM better. Currently unless it is at prime time you can't even get matches--the MM is already straining to find players, let alone equally skilled ones.

And with hundreds of variants and thousands of loadouts, even equally skilled players can have big enough disparity depending on which mech/class they are using--thus affecting the match outcome.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 November 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 21 November 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

That's you erroneously inferring things from what I said. I'm saying that any attempts will at best improve the MM, but cannot fix it with current population--I never said I don't want PGI to try to make the MM better. Currently unless it is at prime time you can't even get matches--the MM is already straining to find players, let alone equally skilled ones.

And with hundreds of variants and thousands of loadouts, even equally skilled players can have big enough disparity depending on which mech/class they are using--thus affecting the match outcome.

You're saying that the population doesn't allow balanced matches, so the match maker can't be fixed. Even today, with any 24 players, you can create a balanced match. It wouldn't mean no stomps, just that the chance of a lopsided result is minimized.

Just do a simple thought exercise, do you believe that if you sort 24 players by skill and mech selection and map selection and place an accurate value on their expected contribution, then put the 1 best player and 11 worst players on one team, will this team lose against the team with #2-13th players? If the answer is yes, this team will lose, then you can shuffle players until the two teams are balanced. The problem has always been the MM used stupid metrics like match score and tiers to create teams, so yes, the MM is fixable and can create balanced teams with today's population. You just need to hire someone who can math. I'd do it myself except PGI doesn't share enough data.

[VonBruinwald]

BIOHAZARD, on 21 November 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

Just untie what we get after the match! Pay everyone based on their individual performance, as if this was a won match every time. Or at least to the players, on the loosing side, that performed well enough to get the green arrow up score. Then the real tier 1 will not care anymore about pugstomps.

OR...

We could tie the payout to the teams performance even further and distribute it equally. That way the mislaid aggression is focused on the people who were hiding at the back padding their stats instead of the ones holding the front who got cut down first.

[BumbaCLot]

Nightbird, on 21 November 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

You're saying that the population doesn't allow balanced matches, so the match maker can't be fixed. Even today, with any 24 players, you can create a balanced match. It wouldn't mean no stomps, just that the chance of a lopsided result is minimized.

Just do a simple thought exercise, do you believe that if you sort 24 players by skill and mech selection and map selection and place an accurate value on their expected contribution, then put the 1 best player and 11 worst players on one team, will this team lose against the team with #2-13th players? If the answer is yes, this team will lose, then you can shuffle players until the two teams are balanced. The problem has always been the MM used stupid metrics like match score and tiers to create teams, so yes, the MM is fixable and can create balanced teams with today's population. You just need to hire someone who can math. I'd do it myself except PGI doesn't share enough data.

Source? I think most people are complaining that MM DOESN'T use AMS.
Tiers obviously don't matter once you play enough as it comes down to a win bumps you with 0 damage and the only way to lose PSR is a loss with MS of under 250.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 21 November 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

That's just improved. With current population even the best match up in average day is not gonna be balanced.

So fixed means, perfect? Lol

You can absolutely make changes to the MM to, potentially, improve matches. It's not that hard to do and is a rather easy 2-Step process. PGI just refuse to come to that way if thinking unfortunately.

Right now just dumping 24 into a match based on "Tier" is all that happens. That means there is a huge room for improvement because the fundamental system it is based on is utterly broken. How you fail to comprehend that is mind-blowing.

Even if there was double the current population (so higher than it's been the last 2 years) there would be no perfect 'fix' for the MM which is what you seem to be after.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 November 2018 - 12:35 PM.

[Nightbird]

BumbaCLot, on 21 November 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Source? I think most people are complaining that MM DOESN'T use AMS.
Tiers obviously don't matter once you play enough as it comes down to a win bumps you with 0 damage and the only way to lose PSR is a loss with MS of under 250.

What about what I wrote requires a source?

[C E Dwyer]

War gaming's population is vastly more, than here. With far more resources, and an extensive play tester, and super tester, programme.

Yet the performance of their Match maker, is only marginally better.

People have left the game over the way PG.I have tried to balance the game and the complete failure of faction play rather than how the MM performs.