159 replies to this topic

[Chris Lowrey]

Joshua McEvedy, on 04 December 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

So what about it? Does MWO have a future looking forward into 2020 and beyond, or is it sunsetting in favor of MW5?

It is not sun-setting in favor of MW5. MW5 is a singleplayer with a peer to peer co-op mode as reported by many outlets that came up to Mech_Con. MW5 is not releasing with any form of PvP multiplayer, that experience for the immediate future will remain firmly in the realm of MWO. While they share the same IP, both games at targeting different aspects of 'Mech combat. With MW5 firmly focused on Single / Co-op Player PvE, while MWO is firmly focused on PvP.

As far as the licensing is concerned, we simply cannot talk about that at this time, but I want to remind everyone that during the Q&A, Russ explicitly stated that he is heading down to Seattle this week to talk with Microsoft about that very subject. When there is something to report on that front, I am sure we will announce it just as we had before when the license was renewed 5 years ago. Until that time, do not expect any of us to be able to make any further comments on this subject.

[Grus]

TinFoilHat, on 04 December 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

This here is one of the major gripes from the weekend Chris - nothing was presented at Mechcon about these changes. We got a "stuff we agreed on from the thread", what *what* exactly are those changes you are looking at? Which ones are upcoming other than a rework to the match maker? That's what's making people cranky - we didn't seem to get anything other than looks at MW5

BUMP!

[Grus]

Ill add to the above...

Adjustments to mechanics and such isnt new content. Neither is new mechs.. What i want to see is what sort of new maps, or diffrent attack/defending options, new FW rewards for maxing out LP. Are we advancing the time line and if we are, are we seeing some IS/Clan faction changes? New progression? Total revamp of the entire FW system to completely change the way it works or hell, even adding in a unit garrison feature (look to WoT clan war for an example).

Aka. Content.

Edited by Grus, 04 December 2018 - 01:17 PM.

[Chris Lowrey]

Grus, on 04 December 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

As for Paul.. well i hope he gets some rest and gets his strength back. Their are a lot of unhappy people on the fourms and abroad that have turned his "to tired" statement into the meme range. I dont know why he did that, could be for very valid reasons, but the masses are not forgiving.

Going to go a bit more inside baseball then I probably should for this, so taking off my developer hat for the rest of this post, but when Paul made that statement, he was running on literally only 45 minutes of sleep the night before, and only 2 hours of sleep on Thursday going into Friday making extra sure the Super Pods where in a state that they worked flawlessly for the convention and not break down and potentially have to turn away attendees that we guaranteed would have a shot at the pods. Or deny the streamers or the standard ticket holders from being able to try out the pods. (Which they didn't. Not one pod broke down the entire convention to my knowledge.)

[Grus]

Chris Lowrey, on 04 December 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Going to go a bit more inside baseball then I probably should for this, so taking off my developer hat for the rest of this post, but when Paul made that statement, he was running on literally only 45 minutes of sleep the night before, and only 2 hours of sleep on Thursday going into Friday making extra sure the Super Pods where in a state that they worked flawlessly for the convention and not break down and potentially have to turn away attendees that we guaranteed would have a shot at the pods. Or deny the streamers or the standard ticket holders from being able to try out the pods. (Which they didn't. Not one pod broke down the entire convention to my knowledge.) I am not exaggerating with that statement, he was effectively living off of less then 3 hours of sleep over three days to ensure that those pods would not break down for those attending the event.

Quite a feat to be sure, but from someone whos had to deal with little to no sleep (not the same situation of course) he should have handed that part off so someone else and gotten the rest he needed. It is a team effort afterall?

Because he handled it the way he did its come off as he didnt care or wasnt even interested in FW.. and that dosnt send a good message to the playerbase.

Edited by Grus, 04 December 2018 - 01:30 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Sorry but what is that then for a planning? the Mechcon was not a surprising event and you could prepare for a long time, udn to such an important event then you drive uneaten...Unless there were problems at the travel or private completely unprepared for everything into chaos, that's something else

[Bud Crue]

Chris Lowrey, on 04 December 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

It is not sun-setting in favor of MW5.

It may not be sunseting in favor of MW5, but unless you guys do something it is sunsetting.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

I hope you have longer than the “immediate future”, whatever that is.

Going back to the OP in this thread, the vibe from Mechcon that the lead developer’s time is better spent on Mechpods for attendees of a 2 day conference to play with, rather that the FP update to your “end game content”, which he strongly suggested would be unveiled at Mechcon, gave off a vibe that while PGI may not be ready to kill FP tomorrow, it sure as hell doesn’t much care about it.

But as to the whole what is the future of MWO, I don’t think many people expect you guys to pull the plug before MW5 comes out or whatever you consider the “immediate future” to be, but what we would like to hear from you all, is what wonderful things you have planned to try and entice what remains of the population around beyond mechpacks, and just how you plan to keep the game running beyond that “immediate future” and beyond MW5. Telling us that in effect that “we can do nothing until we iron out the license”, a license renewal that is over a year away, doesn’t really inspire, ya know?

[Grus]

Bud Crue, on 04 December 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

It may not be sunseting in favor of MW5, but unless you guys do something it is sunsetting.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

I hope you have longer than the “immediate future”, whatever that is.

Going back to the OP in this thread, the vibe from Mechcon that the lead developer’s time is better spent on Mechpods for attendees of a 2 day conference to play with, rather that the FP update to your “end game content”, which he strongly suggested would be unveiled at Mechcon, gave off a vibe that while PGI may not be ready to kill FP tomorrow, it sure as hell doesn’t much care about it.

This

As a critique; if he would have said "im exausted, give me a day to rest and recoup then ill go over FW." That is COMPLETELY diffrebt tone and intent than what was presented.

[Lightfoot]

In regards to Faction Play, I would suggest creating a great reward set that no player can be without. Nothing OP, but something players must have, sort of like an Epic quest reward in an RPG. This would get everyone logging in to Faction Play, then you just need to have Faction Play be more of a Mech Pilot/ BattleTech roleplay interaction. I still like the idea of Lone Wolf, Loyalist/Clanner, and Unit team member, except that PGI never gave any perks to being a Lone Wolf. Lone Wolf should get to pick up a chance for gravy contracts as opposed to sure and steady rewards, or something. I actually think Merc Unit is where everyone will want to be as this creates a clan of players.

But the reward for coming to Faction Play has always been missing and it really needs to be like a quest reward players will drool over, but is not OP or pay to win. Something players will want on every mech. So I'll just toss out an example. Say through points and/or capturing planets players earned a data card (so to speak) that could be inserted into a mech's single data card slot (and also removed). This data card would grant a bit better armor, cooling, damage, speed, or the best one, adds a single hardpoint at the location the player chooses. Something like that would get everyone playing Faction Play. Then it would just need to be an immersive Mech Pilot experience.

When looking at the starmap players should also be in group chat and be able to add new unit members. Better for recruiting usually.

[Grus]

Lightfoot, on 04 December 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

In regards to Faction Play, I would suggest creating a great reward set that no player can be without. Nothing OP, but something players must have, sort of like an Epic quest reward in an RPG. This would get everyone logging in to Faction Play, then you just need to have Faction Play be more of a Mech Pilot/ BattleTech roleplay interaction. I still like the idea of Lone Wolf, Loyalist/Clanner, and Unit team member, except that PGI never gave any perks to being a Lone Wolf. Lone Wolf should get to pick up a chance for gravy contracts as opposed to sure and steady rewards, or something. I actually think Merc Unit is where everyone will want to be as this creates a clan of players.

But the reward for coming to Faction Play has always been missing and it really needs to be like a quest reward players will drool over, but is not OP or pay to win. Something players will want on every mech. So I'll just toss out an example. Say through points and/or capturing planets players earned a data card (so to speak) that could be inserted into a mech's single data card slot (and also removed). This data card would grant a bit better armor, cooling, damage, speed, or the best one, adds a single hardpoint at the location the player chooses. Something like that would get everyone playing Faction Play. Then it would just need to be an immersive Mech Pilot experience.

When looking at the starmap players should also be in group chat and be able to add new unit members. Better for recruiting usually.

Reach max level in GB get a Stone Rhino.. for example

[Khobai]

The biggest problem with faction play, outside of the gamemodes themselves, is that being in a faction has absolutely no meaning. Its just an arbitrary designation with the same set of generic rewards.

Theres no unique rewards for each faction. Loyalists arnt rewarded more than non-Loyalists. And theres no faction quirks/bonuses or anything else to differentiate how each faction plays.

It makes absolutely no difference whether im in clan steel viper or clan jade falcon. Its the same donkey with a different saddle. Id like to see unique faction rewards for each faction as well as unique faction quirks when using mechs associated with your faction (i.e. using an atlas as steiner gives you a steiner scout lance sensor bonus, etc...). Maybe even have other perks like faction-unique variants of weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 04 December 2018 - 02:37 PM.

[Grus]

Khobai, on 04 December 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

The biggest problem with faction play, outside of the gamemodes themselves, is that being in a faction has absolutely no meaning. Its just an arbitrary designation with the same set of generic rewards.

Theres no unique rewards for each faction. Loyalists arnt rewarded more than non-Loyalists. And theres no faction quirks/bonuses or anything else to differentiate how each faction plays.

It makes absolutely no difference whether im in clan steel viper or clan jade falcon. Its the same donkey with a different saddle. Id like to see unique faction rewards for each faction as well as unique faction quirks when using mechs associated with your faction (i.e. using an atlas as steiner gives you a steiner scout lance sensor bonus, etc...). Maybe even have other perks like faction-unique variants of weapons.

Question; would you go as far as only allowing the correct mechs for that faction in FW? I.e. if X faction didnt have production capability of Y mech they cant bring it in FW?

[Khobai]

Grus, on 04 December 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Question; would you go as far as only allowing the correct mechs for that faction in FW? I.e. if X faction didnt have production capability of Y mech they cant bring it in FW?

no I prefer the carrot approach

id make it so you can play any mech you want. but if you play a mech on your faction's list it gains your faction unique quirk(s). And if theres faction unique variants of weapons theyd only be equippable on mechs on the faction list.

I think it would be way too complex and punitive to limit people to only be able to use certain mechs/weapons based on what planets their faction owns. Although I do think each planet should have a unique bonus but those bonuses should be more in the form of cbill discounts. Or maybe even extra tonnage if you use a mech thats produced on a planet your defending (so like using an annihilator on a planet with an annihilator factory might give you +5 tons to your dropdeck or something like that). That might help encourage using different mechs on different planets.

Edited by Khobai, 04 December 2018 - 02:58 PM.

[Nightbird]

Faction flavors, while nice, is high hanging fruit. What needs to be done first is making FP matches more fun for all involved, with all existing and widely spread skill levels.

[Khobai]

Nightbird, on 04 December 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Faction flavors, while nice, is high hanging fruit. What needs to be done first is making FP matches more fun for all involved, with all existing and widely spread skill levels.

Theyre both important IMO. Its not faction warfare if theres no incentives to join a faction and no rewards for long-term loyalty to a faction. I wouldnt call it a high hanging fruit because I view both as necessary aspects of faction warfare. If PGI doesnt do it faction warfare will still suck... its one of the bare minimum things they need to do.

But certainly implementing a functional matchmaker, fixing the gamemodes, and adding new gamemodes/maps is higher priority. That should be done before anything else.

Edited by Khobai, 04 December 2018 - 04:04 PM.

[Nightbird]

Khobai, on 04 December 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Theyre both important IMO. Its not faction warfare if theres no incentives to join a faction and no rewards for long-term loyalty to a faction. I wouldnt call it a high hanging fruit because I view both as necessary aspects of faction warfare.

The order has to be more fun matches first. You can easily earn mechbays and MC in FP, yet no one does it because the gameplay is terrible. Favors to factions may lure a few more people first, but any enthusiasm will be ground down to dust in a day or week as skilled teams are repeatedly matched against new pugs with no adjustments to make the match more balanced.

I want faction flavors, but I also realize there's no point if no one wants to play the mode. Need the cake first before adding the icing so to speak.

[Nightbird]

Before anyone posts, "well, that's why we need a match maker in FP", no that doesn't help at all. Say there is a good 12man in queue, and on the other side, a 3man and 20 pugs. Create a good match for me with a MM. It can't be done.

Before anyone says, well, it's impossible to make a good match with that. No, it is possible, link below has a solution. There are other solutions too. It's only impossible with a MM. Think outside the box.

https://mwomercs.com...n-in-one-month/

[KingCobra]

Nightbird, on 04 December 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

Before anyone posts, "well, that's why we need a match maker in FP", no that doesn't help at all. Say there is a good 12man in queue, and on the other side, a 3man and 20 pugs. Create a good match for me with a MM. It can't be done.

Before anyone says, well, it's impossible to make a good match with that. No, it is possible, link below has a solution. There are other solutions too. It's only impossible with a MM. Think outside the box.

https://mwomercs.com...n-in-one-month/

Look friend you cannot rebuild the MWO community or FP by letting premade teams roll new players/casuals/solo players that want to try the CW/FP game mode this is what basically has killed this game and game mode off for a long time combined with no Social lobby system for player interaction and easy player to player interaction and instruction has also killed off the game.

Edited by KingCobra, 04 December 2018 - 03:41 PM.

[Nightbird]

KingCobra, on 04 December 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

Look friend you cannot rebuild the MWO community or FP by letting premade teams roll new players/casuals/solo players that want to try the CW/FP game mode this is what basically has killed this game and game mode off for a long time combined with no Social lobby system for player interaction and easy player to player interaction and instruction has also killed off the game.

Look friend, it's a MP game with friends, we can't actively kill teams as much as some people want to. Also, I said there are other solutions, for example, adding AI and letting people who don't like PvP do PvE.

Another solution is to force solo droppers into a different queue, but it won't work because it's impossible to prevent sync dropping and also the pop/wait time won't support it.

All sorts of solutions with different costs and benefits. AI: too expensive, non-starter (from PGI, not me). Solo-queue: low cost, 0 benefits due to exploits and also creates worse queue times.

The solution I presented is intended to be fast and easy, and will make some difference. You can look at teams, you can look at maps, and increase or decrease the tonnage difference to make the fight closer. It won't force pre-mades to die, and it gives weaker teams a lot more kills and earnings. Is it perfect? No, it's a compromise. Don't like it? Suggest something better and let other people critique it, just like I let others critique my idea and no one was able to find anything contrary. It won't make matches perfect, but it'll make a difference in the right direction.

Lastly, the reason I went with making a tonnage drop voluntary (with a earnings penalty) is also a requirement from PGI, no changes to drop deck compliance rules. If PGI is willing to adjust that, we can force strong teams to ton down and matches WILL be better.

Edited by Nightbird, 04 December 2018 - 03:57 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Chris Lowrey, on 04 December 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Ok, for the first time in four days I've had a full nights sleep so lets catch up with where we left off last night....


Never said we balanced for everyone. I explicitly said that we utilize Solo, Group, and Competitive play as our primary balance "anchors." But this does not mean that all decisions are made exclusively because of the anchors. Although looking over the statement again with a full night's sleep, I am noticing I neglected to include that we utilize the "high end levels" of Solo, Group, and Competitive play as our anchors. But reiterating again, this does not mean that 100% of the changes to the game are exclusively made for that level of play.


Sort of. More like we listen to all, and pull from the relevant feedback pool depending on what we are internally targeting for improvement. In fact just glancing over a number of responses from last night, I feel I have to re-quote and highlight a key part of my original post that seems to be getting lost in the shuffle here:


As an example for the changes that Paul is targeting for faction play, we listened to everyone that posted in the thread that was started a bit ago. But naturally, we would lean on the experiences of those that spend a great amount of time in Faction play over those that have never dropped once into the mode when it comes to targeting improvements that those that enjoy the mode would wish to see.

But this does not mean that those that have never played the mode opinions are entirely irrelevant, as depending on what is being talked about, their impressions as to why they don't choose to touch faction play can be just as relevant as those that primarily play faction play. It all depends on what we are internally targeting for improvement.

How can you be certain your balancing decisions are correct with the matchmaker is such a poor state? Stats can easily be skewed when teams are made that have wildly differing skill levels across them