59 replies to this topic

[Kubernetes]

Dear PGI:

I would greatly appreciate it if you could increase HGauss range by another 20m, just as a quality of life issue. It's such a small increase, de minimis really, that I'm sure it wouldn't impact balance too much. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Kube

[Blockwart]

Armored Yokai, on 04 December 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

I.s Gauss Needs Some Tuning.

MWO needs some tuning

[R Valentine]

Light Gauss still go largely unused. I see a troll build every now and then, but other than that they're non-existent. Of course, we all said this back when light gauss we released, so...

[Armored Yokai]

Kubernetes, on 05 December 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Dear PGI:

I would greatly appreciate it if you could increase HGauss range by another 20m, just as a quality of life issue. It's such a small increase, de minimis really, that I'm sure it wouldn't impact balance too much. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Kube

If Hgauss had 300m, No charge, Increased health and only exploded when charged then it would be the best weapon for mid to close range

[Y E O N N E]

Kiran Yagami, on 05 December 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Light Gauss still go largely unused. I see a troll build every now and then, but other than that they're non-existent. Of course, we all said this back when light gauss we released, so...

The thing is, after all of the changes to it since release, LGauss is so close to being solid. Even with a mere +1 damage from current, I could see myself using it unironically on Heavy-class Gauss-vomit builds; the lower weight means more lasers means better maximum DPS if I need it and that has some value. Smaller breaks between shots also has some value, enough to offset a loss of 2 points on the alpha strike with 2xLGR+6xERML vs. the typical 2GR+4ERML GaussHammer IMHO.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 December 2018 - 09:54 PM, said:

Smaller breaks between shots also has some value, enough to offset a loss of 2 points on the alpha strike with 2xLGR+6xERML vs. the typical 2GR+4ERML GaussHammer IMHO.

Regular Gauss syncs better with ERMLs, IMO.

Kiran Yagami, on 05 December 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Light Gauss still go largely unused. I see a troll build every now and then, but other than that they're non-existent. Of course, we all said this back when light gauss we released, so...

Tried 4xLGauss on the ECM Fafnir--yeah there are better alternatives.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 December 2018 - 10:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 05 December 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

Regular Gauss syncs better with ERMLs, IMO.

It has a similar total cycle time, sure, but that's really only advantageous if you don't have practiced trigger discipline. You just hold your fire until the ERML are ready, there's nothing to it.

But having the option to fire faster than that affords you a greater ability to take advantage of opportunities to shoot and leaves you less vulnerable. For me, that's valuable. Problem is, right now you sacrifice too much in the speed department for the damage; why take a 46 damage alpha at 64.8 kph when you can just bring 47 points of laser vomit at 75 kph for similar sustained DPS and nearly perfect weapon synchronicity in both application and cooldown? There's not enough alpha or max DPS to justify the weapon unless LGauss gets a further damage buff; the massive range it has is useless more often than not. But +1 damage per LGR could put it there. +2 would for sure.

[Dimento Graven]

justcallme A S H, on 05 December 2018 - 12:35 AM, said:

What even is this insanity?

Gauss and HGauss need buffs?

IS Gauss already doesn't insta blow like Clan... HGauss is also extremely strong if the player has some basic map awareness.

Incorrect, the IS gauss has a 10% chance of not 'insta blowing', where the Clan will no matter what.

A one-in-ten chance is small, noticeable, but not really all that 'balancing' considering that the clans save tonnage and crit space with their version of it.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Your wrong about light gauss they are one of the best IS ballistics. PROTECTOR
On the right mech you can brawl and snipe like a champ. Even with no stupid high 22% 32% cool down light gauss are still great. Side note my real build is better for some reason armor is messed up on smurfs same armor no quirks on my mech in the mechwarrior online mech lab is 15 tons same internal load out on smurfs 16.5 tons not sure why.

Edited by SirSmokes, 06 December 2018 - 09:35 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

SirSmokes, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Your wrong about light gauss they are one of the best IS ballistics. PROTECTOR
On the right mech you can brawl and snipe like a champ. Even with no stupid high 22% 32% cool down light gauss are still great. Side note my real build is better for some reason armor is messed up on smurfs same armor no quirks on my mech in the mechwarrior online mech lab is 15 tons same internal load out on smurfs 16.5 tons not sure why.

Definitely a case of "to each his own", seriously, the loss of the slots and tonnage, for one extra point of damage seems... I dunno, not worth it.

I'd absolutely replace the two LG's with a single HG, with the tonnage difference (1 HG is 6 tons lighter than 2 LGs, isn't it?), you'd be able to maintain much of your speed with a standard engine, end up a with a heavier alpha.

Yeah, you won't have the range, but seriously, if you're spending the entire fight sniping with dual LG's, in a 75 ton 'mech, you're typically not going to be doing your team much good.

I prefer something like this:

PROTECTOR mk2

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 December 2018 - 10:23 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Spheroid, on 05 December 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

That already was tried once. Don't you remember? Gauss was the predominant pinpoint weapon. If you make it chargeless you throw the entire PPC/AC ecosystem into chaos. Those weapons too must have purpose. As a snapshot weapon a gauss is vastly more flexible than an AC-20. If you make it super long cooldown then you ironically force it to a sniper role as it can't be used in close quarters effectively. Also dps doesn't exist in vacccum, heat and weapon synergies are acting on the theoretical max dps of competing weapons.

No, when the Gauss Rifle first appeared in MWO it had no charge-up and had the same recycle as the AC20 (closed beta). We told PGI you can't have the Gauss Rifle and AC20 have the same recycle because everyone will just use the Gauss. But, instead of a longer recycle we got the charge-up so in fact the Gauss Rifle has never appeared in MWO with the correct recycle time so no one knows if this would balance it or not. Not you, not me, not PGI, but the longer recycle always worked in previous MechWarrior games.

[Y E O N N E]

Two LGauss are 9 tons heavier than a single standard Gauss; 24 vs. 15 tons. It's basically never a worthwhile trade to take two LGR instead of one GR, but cases can be made going two for two.

[Dimento Graven]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Two LGauss are 9 tons heavier than a single standard Gauss; 24 vs. 15 tons. It's basically never a worthwhile trade to take two LGR instead of one GR, but cases can be made going two for two.

That's what I was thinking. Heck, given the current state of game play in my experience, it's MUCH more effective to bring 1 HG and lasers/heat sinks/speed to a match than it is to bring 2 LG's and having to give up 6 tons and a crit slot for less than half the damage...

Yeah, yeah, RANGE can be a factor, BUT, for those 'mechs actually capable of effectively using TWO LG's, those are typically the bigger Heavies, or Assaults, and if you're playing those 'mechs AT RANGE, then your team is suffering from a lack of armor sharing, and you're a potential victim of a light 'mech MG/laser vomit-suprise-buttsex attack.

[Omniseed]

Ruccus, on 05 December 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

The Bushwacker has over 50 side torso armour to get through before you're considering a weapon explosion, with the Champion and Marauder at around 60 armour before it can be critted. All three mechs are pretty good at torso twisting because they're non-humanoid mechs that don't have to twist as much as a humanoid mech before a side torso is pretty effectively protected. A player good at positioning and torso twisting should be reasonably effective at protecting a single Heavy Gauss.

Also with mechs like the Bushwacker X1 and Champion 3N their 10% range quirk means the Heavy Gauss is doing 20 damage at 391m even before any range skill nodes are included. When you see the Heavy Gauss' 220m range you think it's a close range weapon, but with a 900m max range its damage profile allows it to be doing 20 damage at over 350m and 15 damage at over 490m, allowing you to engage a mech at less than optimal range while still doing significant damage.

50 side torso armor isn't too much for a tanky 55-tonner.

[Dimento Graven]

Omniseed, on 06 December 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

50 side torso armor isn't too much for a tanky 55-tonner.

Especially considering some of the 50+ alphas that are being sported nowadays.

[Daurock]

My real problem with the Lgauss is that every time I look at it, I can't for the life of me find a good role for it. If I want big alpha, I grab a Regular / Hgauss, or a PPC of some kind. If I want to spam lots of shots with it, I notice that the AC/5 Can usually provide the same punch for a given tonnage, with none of the Gauss downsides. If I'm looking for a little of both, I can often straight up replace the LtG for an AC10, and only really sacrifice a little range, but gain a solid amount of Alpha and dps at the same time. This one just needs help.

The regular is in a better position, but honestly, every time I look at a Standard Gauss build, I find myself wanting to pile more lasers in instead for a more effective build. Even the best IS 2xStd.Gauss mech, (the warhammer, IMO) gets arguably better by dropping one of the gauss rifles, fitting in some more lasers, and putting together something like This. The weapon is certainly in better shape than the light, but man alive, is it tough to justify sometimes.

The Heavy Gauss is in good shape IMO, but i'm not entirely sure if it's just the weapon, or the chassis that carry it that make it so good. Probably a bit of both.

[The pessimistic optimist]

You guys don't get it on the Protector you can get light gauss cool down too 1.6 AC5 speed. Light gauss are way fast firing you can use them to harass a mid to long and brawl close range it about speed of them. Even with no cooldown light gauss are fast your taking them for versatility. There only 2 less damage then AC 10 with less heat. Because there gauss round going at gauss round speed it easyer to pull of snap shots with lasers vs ac 10.

Edited by SirSmokes, 06 December 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

SirSmokes, on 06 December 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

You guys don't get it on the Protector you can get light gauss cool down too 1.6 AC5 speed. Light gauss are way fast firing you can use them to harass a mid to long and brawl close range it about speed of them. Even with no cooldown light gauss are fast your taking them for versatility. There only 2 less damage then AC 10 with less heat. Because there gauss round going at gauss round speed it easyer to pull of snap shots with lasers vs ac 10.

Like I said, "to each his own"... I just don't think it's worth it, it's heavier by two tons, does less damage than an AC/10, has a LOWER DPS than an AC/10 and you're strapping a 90% chance of going "splody" every time something hits that location when the location becomes "open".

The only viable way to play it, in my opinion, is detrimental to your team. It's really not a 'brawly' weapon, even with the faster recycle time as there are many lighter, less 'explody', higher DPS weapons that could be loaded that make much more effective load outs for the top end heavy, and assault 'mechs that can effectively load two of them.

If I'm spending most of my match beyond 700-800 meters I'm not doing my part of the armor sharing in the group, and that is as important as dealing damage, especially if your build is only capable of dealing the same damage as a medium 'mech kitted out as a laser/missile boat...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 December 2018 - 02:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

So, IMHO, the best-case scenario for LGauss is using it in a pair with six ER MedLas. Here's how it compares on a Warhammer:

NOTE: NavAlpha does not factor in charge time when calculating DPS for Gauss rifles, so I've corrected it in the Max DPS and then adjusted Average DPS by multiplying the new Max DPS by the provided Heat Efficiency. Assuming NavAlpha's Heat Efficiency number is just max H/s generated divided by max H/s dissipated, this should be in the ballpark for average DPS with all weapons active.

WHM-6D: 3LL+5ERML

Speed: 69.4

DHS: 20

Alpha: 52

Max DPS: 11.53

Avg. DPS: 5.29

The yardstick. Seems hotter than the rest, and it is, but the fact that all of its damage is hit-scan is an incredible boon; the others might whiff shots or have to pull the shot, meaning they could only do between 20 and 38 damage where this one will do all 52. To be brutally honest, the slightly better average DPS out of any of the Gauss builds is not enough to overcome the overwhelming advantage the laser vomit has in ease-of-use, which is why this is the yardstick build. This is also the fastest 'Mech of the bunch.

WHM-6R: 1GR+2LL+4ERML

Speed: 64.8

DHS: 15

Alpha: 53

Max DPS: 10.98

Avg. DPS: 5.27

Meh. 1 point better alpha in exchange for worse DPS all around and reduced weapon synergy. I wouldn't run this. You can tighten up the weapon grouping by doing 3xLL and 1x ERML, stripping the arms, but then it will be weaker in every department, even against the LGauss save for a 1-point alpha advantage.

WHM-6R: 2GR+4ERML

Speed: 64.8

DHS: 10

Alpha: 50

Max DPS: 9.30

Avg. DPS: 5.30

Again, only marginally cooler to run than the pure vomit, and pretty down on max DPS. Has a peaking advantage over all the rest, though, since it doesn't use the arms for any damage. After the heat changes, this 'Mech is basically obsolete.

WHM-6R: 2LGR+6ERML

Speed: 64.8

DHS: 13

Alpha: 46

Max DPS: 11.28

Avg. DPS: 5.75

Pumps out damage marginally colder than the rest and can dump way faster than the conventional GaussHammer or the SemiGauss, but still slower than pure Laser Vomit.

What if LGR is 9 damage, though? Then the WHM looks like this:
Alpha: 48
Max DPS: 11.93
Avg. DPS: 6.08

10 damage?
Alpha: 50
Max DPS: 12.57
Avg. DPS: 6.41

At 9, it looks like it's finally a worthwhile trade-off against laser vomit and it's certainly better than Gauss or SemiGauss unless you absolutely need the peaking prowess of the Gauss. At 10, it's undeniably strong, to the point where I probably wouldn't ever run a conventional GaussHammer again, nor SemiGauss. Actually, I probably wouldn't run AC/10s, either, because the projectile is too slow and doesn't sync well with lasers beyond ~330 meters or so. Too much deflection required. As such, I only really use AC/10s with PPCs or standard MedLas. Which, honestly, is fine; it still has a role for me.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 06 December 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[FupDup]

^Oh god, the formatting. Paste as plain text is your friend.

Edited by FupDup, 06 December 2018 - 06:05 PM.