54 replies to this topic

[DisasterTheory]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

The delicious irony of this thread is that adding knock down isn't going to solve OPs problem with hitting lights. It's just going to make the game worse off than it already is.

The even more delicious irony is I never said I have a problem hitting lights... YOU did.

Actually I have no issues hitting them, but the damage they recieve vs the damage they SHOULD receive are two totally different things. You already said light mechs over 100kph have serious hit registry issues and thats 100% true which is why getting hit with one round from a large ballistic would cure this problem. But I have a feeling you're an exclusive light mech user and I know I'm assuming this so please forgive me but since you too have assumed that I am an exclusive assault user I figured I'd give back the assumption gift. Truth be known I play all classes including a light mech or two (Javlin and Urby) and have owned a cheeta before I sold it due to inactivity.

[Prototelis]

Mole, on 07 December 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Well if what I'm getting out of the OP is correct, he would have to land a hit on a light with an AC/20 in the first place to achieve a knockdown. It doesn't seem as though he is suggesting that we bring back just bumping into someone being enough to knock a 'mech off its feet. Now I don't have a lot of trouble with lights because I can usually hit them well enough to at least frighten them away even if I'm in my assaults, but even I find it fairly difficult to land an AC/20 on something as small and nimble as a Locust or a Piranha.

Which is why this is really a nerf all lights thread.

There are some quirked up edge cases for sure, but none of those lights are small enough to effectively crotch hug. Crotch hugging is only effective against mechs that are already so isolated they may as well be dead (not contributing to pools).

A single AC20 hit on any 20 ton light is more than enough damage cripple an approaching light, making a knockdown effect that is only directed at one class largely irrelevant.

I do agree that the ghost heat limit is stupid, and I'd be down with an accompanying velocity increase. Right now AC20 rounds are so slow you can masc dodge them in the fle like NEO.

[Prototelis]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 07 December 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

The even more delicious irony is I never said I have a problem hitting lights... YOU did.

That isn't irony. Also, it was heavily implied by the tone and content of your post that you have issues hitting approaching lights.

Quote

You already said light mechs over 100kph have serious hit registry issues and thats

I did not.

Quote

100% true which is why getting hit with one round from a large ballistic would cure this problem. But I have a feeling you're an exclusive light mech user

https://leaderboard....ch?u=Prototelis

I am not, but I do play lights more often than other classes.

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:45 AM.
unconstructive, off-topic, replies removed

[Jables McBarty]

[Redacted]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

A 50 meter warp on a 'mech moving 100kph+ is somehow LESS noticeable than a stationary 'mech popping 10 meters?

Yeah, huh... AGAIN, there's a difference for correcting fire for a stationary target's 10 meter warp verses a target moving 100kph+ with a 50 warp.

The difficulties are orders of magnitude different.

You are saying that occasional broken game mechanics due to server speed limitations (rubberbanding) are equivalent to introducing a new game mechanc that will always result in broken results (glitched knockdowns).

Or do I misunderstand your point?

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 07 December 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

See that right there is our problem.... those classes arn't weak at all. Add in poor hit registry and 15 machine guns and suddenly you have a pir running around untouchable with 3-5 kills by endgame. Ive seen this many times and even resorted to running streak Arctic Wolf variants to counter them. Even streaks are starting to become ineffective to a 129kph poor hit registry pir.

Ah, as usual, I see this is in fact a "Piranha OP" thread.

Also, I see I don't have to introduce my usual talking point - that there are very easy and very obvious counters to all lights - because apparently you have already discovered it for yourself!

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

OP - "Back in closed beta just one AC20 would knock down a Jenner or Commando pretty easy making the current player mentality of rushing mechs much heavier than itself obsolete. The AC20 hasn't had the same effect since it was striped of its ability to knock a light or small medium on its butt.

In a nutshell what I'm proposing is any mech under 40 tons can be (CAN BE) knocked down from a single hit from a single AC20.

Mechs weighing 45 to 55 tons will be vulnerable to knockdown from a single shot from Dual AC20's."

You know what else severely damages 'mechs under 40 tons?

20 points of pinpoint damage.




Also, I feel obligated to leave this little gem here

https://mwomercs.com...ing-with-proof/

Though it could be any one of a thousand such topics I've read since first hopping on the forums in Jan 2015.

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:20 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[DisasterTheory]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 02:42 PM, said:

That isn't irony. Also, it was heavily implied by the tone and content of your post that you have issues hitting approaching lights.



I did not.



https://leaderboard....ch?u=Prototelis

I am not, but I do play lights more often than other classes.



[Redacted]

[Redacted]

There we go, now that that has been said.... I have one question for you.

Give one GOOD reason.... a game breaking reason why Large Ballistic knockdown would damage the current game play of MWO.

Honestly you can't answer this... and it makes every post you have made here null and void. As for everyone else that was constructive in their responses I thank you for being civil and open minded.

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:46 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[Dimento Graven]

Jables McBarty, on 07 December 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

...

You are saying that occasional broken game mechanics due to server speed limitations (rubberbanding) are equivalent to introducing a new game mechanc that will always result in broken results (glitched knockdowns).

Or do I misunderstand your point?

The issue with fast 'mechs and bad pings is consistent, not occasional, and significantly more game breaking than that teeny tiny bit of warp from a knockdown.

It's 10 flippin' meters. HARDLY game breaking, it doesn't make the target invulnerable to fire in the least...

[dario03]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 07 December 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

[Redacted]

There we go, now that that has been said.... I have one question for you.

Give one GOOD reason.... a game breaking reason why Large Ballistic knockdown would damage the current game play of MWO.

Honestly you can't answer this... and it makes every post you have made here null and void. As for everyone else that was constructive in their responses I thank you for being civil and open minded.

That reason is game balance. Lights and mediums are the weaker classes of the game (yes they can do good, but according to stats they are on average weaker). Nerfing them more by adding in something that hurts them hurts the game balance.

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:47 AM.
Quote Clean-up

[Dimento Graven]

dario03, on 07 December 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

That reason is game balance. Lights and mediums are the weaker classes of the game (yes they can do good, but according to stats they are on average weaker). Nerfing them more by adding in something that hurts them hurts the game balance.

If everyone can be knocked down, it's NOT a light "nerf".

[dario03]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

If everyone can be knocked down, it's NOT a light "nerf".

The OP said AC20 knockdown against 20-40t mechs and knockdown for 40-55t mechs if hit by 2xAC20. AC20 was later changed to Large Ballistic knockdown.

But even if it was all mechs how would it be balanced? Most of the other poster suggestions I have seen in this thread and others have not been balanced. An assault also falling is not balanced if its chances are much lower unless it has some kind of big downside. Same thing applies to collision damage, increasing that so that a light takes a lot of damage but an assault takes little is not balanced, even if they are both taking damage.
Something having an affect on every class doesn't necessarily mean that it is balanced. For example the command wheel action "target spotted". Spotting an assault typically doesn't really do much, spotting a light does.

Edited by dario03, 07 December 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

4 Pages on IK/Knockdowns when we all know they are never coming back.

[Grus]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

This game does not need stunlock, and it already has enough wonky hitreg.

PS, if you can't hit them on their way in being able to knock down those lowly lesser classed mechs isn't going to prevent you from getting your breaks beat.

I agree, although.. i have been noticing a lot more fle's, PB, ACH and the like having hit reg and teleportation (wish i had a rig that could record, waitibg to be able to affod a new 1kw powersupply to install my new vid card) issues. Had a fle take a full salvo od 4srm6 with tag (IS) and take 2% damage...

Adding knock down would give us another way to counter brawling lights.

[FupDup]

Here's an even better video than Goons Heart Paul:

[Redacted]

Bonuses:

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:34 AM.
video included inappropriate reference

[DisasterTheory]

FupDup, on 07 December 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

Here's an even better video than Goons Heart Paul:

[Redacted]

Bonuses:

Again this has NOTHING to do with my OP. Impact Knock isn't the same as Ballistic Knock. Why do people keep posting these videos of Paul getting served?

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 11:34 AM.
Quote Clean-up

[Dimento Graven]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 07 December 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Again this has NOTHING to do with my OP. Impact Knock isn't the same as Ballistic Knock. Why do people keep posting these videos of Paul getting served?

Actually... Because it's kind of fun... Unironically...

[Prototelis]

That Paul video is P. Funny btw.

The only time I've been involved in Dev trolling was in City of Heroes... and that guy made himself like 40 feet tall with a million health.