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Coming Back: A Review


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#1 Tyman4

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM

PPC hit registration - same, still hot garbage. 50/50 shot that your projectiles just port through the target

Missile hit registration - same, still hot garbage if more than ~4 missiles strike at the same time

Alpha strikes - heavily penalized in random ways because we STILL have [Redacted] ghost heat

Alpha strikes as a tactic - still ridiculously good because we can't ever find a way to get mixed builds in the game...smdh...

Range - still dumb, lasers and ppcs and gauss reach farther than a missile (hint this may have something to do with the previous problem of mixed builds

Ammo - unbelievably plentiful with unlocks to make it even stronger

Armor and Structure - holy ever loving god...what exactly is the point of playing a light like my good old jenner when 30 damage is NOTHING...I'd have to ACE the ct of an annihaltor like 10 times to kill it. Holy ****.

Consumables - mandatory, if you aren't landing arty on things you will lose.

CB taxes are so high that it's pointless to play in Free to Play mode, you'll need to spend weeks grinding to get even 1 new mech, much less equipment and light engines.

Overall - little to no improvement in several years. Same core problems. Same catering to the brawl crowd "See mech, walk toward mech, kill or die, repeat" much fun, lots of strategery...smh...

Guess I'll go back to waiting for a mech game to come out...

Edited by draiocht, 14 December 2018 - 10:15 AM.
inappropriate language


#2 cyclist1994

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:15 AM

Fix the hitreg! Fix the hitreg!

#3 Jay Leon Hart

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:38 AM

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Alpha strikes - heavily penalized in random ways because we STILL have [Redacted] ghost heat

Alpha strikes as a tactic - still ridiculously good because we can't ever find a way to get mixed builds in the game...smdh...

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Edited by draiocht, 14 December 2018 - 10:15 AM.
Quote Clean-up


#4 IronWatch

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:48 AM

Your tears wet the grass of the fields we march across, claiming another world from the QQers and Forum Babies.

#5 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 08:12 AM

Quote

CB taxes are so high that it's pointless to play in Free to Play mode, you'll need to spend weeks grinding to get even 1 new mech, much less equipment and light engines.
only when you terribad or only play a Match per Day...2,5 Mio with 10 Games its minimum to win

#6 Daurock

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 08:35 AM

View PostOld MW4 Ranger, on 12 December 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

only when you terribad or only play a Match per Day...2,5 Mio with 10 Games its minimum to win


Believe it or not, grinding out the more expensive equipment, or an engine can still be quite the task if there aren't lots of events going on. It's still 3 to 5 million for an LFE/XL, when you're averaging maybe 150k a game. (Which is roughly what you're averaging if you're a run-of-the-mill player getting 400 to 500 damage a game on non-premium, non-hero mechs, and that's assuming no consumables.) It means you're still in it for 20-30 or so games just for that engine. Double that if you're trying to skill out a mech at the same time. For a player playing 6 or 8 games a day (So about an hour's worth of playtime each day) it's very realistic to spend almost a week just for an engine, let alone purchasing and outfitting an entirely new mech.

Edited by Daurock, 12 December 2018 - 08:37 AM.


#7 Daggett

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:00 AM

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

PPC hit registration - same, still hot garbage. 50/50 shot that your projectiles just port through the target

And yet, there are guys like JuJu who will dominate both of us with PPCs. Hitreg can't be that bad if the very best players use PPCs, even in world championships.

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Alpha strikes - heavily penalized in random ways because we STILL have [Redacted] ghost heat
Alpha strikes as a tactic - still ridiculously good because we can't ever find a way to get mixed builds in the game...smdh...

*Gauss-vomit raises it's hand*
I see lots of mixed builds in the game, for example you can add medium lasers to almost anything and SRMs mix well with (LBX) AC20s.
Yes, boating is still very effective and used, but that's not that big of a problem. Not everyone wants to play with 3-6 different weapongroups, so it's okay to have options which only require the two main mouse-buttons.

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Range - still dumb, lasers and ppcs and gauss reach farther than a missile (hint this may have something to do with the previous problem of mixed builds

There are valid gameplay reasons for this. And for most games except pure simulations gameplay beats realism.

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Ammo - unbelievably plentiful with unlocks to make it even stronger

And yet you need to invest a lot of tonnage into ammo. In most builds you still have to sacrifice something to be able to carry enough ammo. It's more that the skill tree nodes made some builds viable that have been ammo-starved before, which is a good thing.

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Armor and Structure - holy ever loving god...what exactly is the point of playing a light like my good old jenner when 30 damage is NOTHING...I'd have to ACE the ct of an annihaltor like 10 times to kill it. Holy ****.

30dmg is still viable as long as you can fire twice as often as a 60dmg mech. Lights like Jenners do this with their speed which enables them to start firing while the slower, high-alpha mechs are still moving to the front. And they usually keep firing long after most assaults have been overwhelmed, thus enable them to influence a match much longer.

Even with the best quirks it only takes one more 30pts alpha to melt the majority of the additional armor/structure gained by the skill tree if you can keep your aim at the same component.

BTW, you are not required to grind though the highly armored FRONT of an Annihilator with your light mech... Posted Image

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Consumables - mandatory, if you aren't landing arty on things you will lose.

Nope, i'll regularly win matches dealing tons of damage without an opportunity to use a consumable. They help of cause, but they are not mandatory. I agree however that it would be more fair to make them free of any cost so players with low performance can still use them without killing their progress. But it's not gamebreaking the way it is.

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Overall - little to no improvement in several years. Same core problems. Same catering to the brawl crowd "See mech, walk toward mech, kill or die, repeat" much fun, lots of strategery...smh...

MWO has some core problems, but those are not the ones you mentioned. And some of the real core problems are so core that it's almost impossible to improve them without fundamentally changing the game.

View PostDaurock, on 12 December 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Believe it or not, grinding out the more expensive equipment, or an engine can still be quite the task if there aren't lots of events going on. It's still 3 to 5 million for an LFE/XL, when you're averaging maybe 150k a game. (Which is roughly what you're averaging if you're a run-of-the-mill player getting 400 to 500 damage a game on non-premium, non-hero mechs, and that's assuming no consumables.) It means you're still in it for 20-30 or so games just for that engine. Double that if you're trying to skill out a mech at the same time. For a player playing 6 or 8 games a day (So about an hour's worth of playtime each day) it's very realistic to spend almost a week just for an engine, let alone purchasing and outfitting an entirely new mech.

That's true, but don't forget that MWO is a free-to-play game. Those cannot be financially viable for the developer without some sort of grind unless you go mainstream and sell only customize-stuff like Fortnite does. I think i don't need to reason why this is not an option for a niche game like MWO.

And from all free-to-play games out there in my opinion MWO is very fair to the non-paying players.
For example in WoT if your example player wants a specific high-tier tank, this will easily take him a year or two and some additional months to upgrade it.
In MWO an average player needing only a couple weeks to grind ANY favorite mech they want is a dream compared to most other F2P games out there. The first one is even free with cadet bonus. And events are available most of the time, so they have to be counted in which means that an average non-payer needs even less time for new stuff than his average match reward suggests.

You only get a resource problem if you wanna go Pokemech, but seriously then one should pay the devs some money to keep the game rolling.

Edited by draiocht, 14 December 2018 - 10:16 AM.
Quote Clean-up


#8 JediPanther

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:14 AM

Your jenner-fu is weak if you can't kill one of the slowest mechs in the game with it.

#9 Dread Render

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:51 AM

It is what it is.
A team game where you have no control over the team.

For best results only play when your with it and not drunk.

#10 Dee Eight

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:59 AM

Claims to be coming back, yet a quick jarl's search finds matches played in each of the past 4 months... and a quick look at current month shows another 48 matches. Strange definition of "coming back" if you haven't actually left...

#11 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 12:56 PM

View PostDaurock, on 12 December 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:


Believe it or not, grinding out the more expensive equipment, or an engine can still be quite the task if there aren't lots of events going on. It's still 3 to 5 million for an LFE/XL, when you're averaging maybe 150k a game. (Which is roughly what you're averaging if you're a run-of-the-mill player getting 400 to 500 damage a game on non-premium, non-hero mechs, and that's assuming no consumables.) It means you're still in it for 20-30 or so games just for that engine. Double that if you're trying to skill out a mech at the same time. For a player playing 6 or 8 games a day (So about an hour's worth of playtime each day) it's very realistic to spend almost a week just for an engine, let alone purchasing and outfitting an entirely new mech.

ok of course Posted Image im forget thats im in teh Last year only played by events with most higher C-Bill rate and use many Mechs with 30% Boost Posted Image...normal by me (as medicore Player and 3 Consumables per Match) Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 126,202.55

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 12 December 2018 - 07:06 PM.


#12 MechaBattler

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 01:07 PM

What kind of mixed builds are you expecting? Like of the stock variety? I don't think those will ever be good without serious penalizing of more uniform builds.

As for ghost heat. It's not random you have set guidelines for how many you can fire. There's even a little warning telling you firng more than X amount of lasers will generate extra heat. The only time it's random is when you're using UACs and the double taps trigger ghost heat.

I never use arty or air strike. And the grind is about the same. Coming off of a few days grinding in other games. Shoot. At least you can choose whichever mech you want and whatever weapons you want. You don't have to grind through an entire tier vehicles to get to the one you really want to play. Do four rep grinds to get the mix of weapons you want for your build.

#13 Knuckles OTool

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 02:02 PM

I notice the hit registration issue with srms and ppc's a lot more when it is prime time and there is a lot going on in the match. It feels like my srm volley does much less damage when the servers are taxed.

I know it is anecdotal but on any of my accounts when I play with srms with high missile salvo builds I swear they arent registering as many hits when there is a lot of action going on in the battle. In a fast and furious match of 12v12 with almost everyone in the brawl you can see the 6xasrm6 hit the guy point blank in his back but then his core is a nice faint yellow afterwards. I swear it happens too often to be a visual glitch or user error.

In off-peak times or even when the match has very few exchanges going on I never feel like I'm getting screwed on the impact damage. While SRM brawlers were always one of my favorite builds I dont play them as much any more as a result of this.

#14 Captain Caveman DE

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 03:06 PM

View PostDread Render, on 12 December 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

It is what it is.
A team game where you have no control over the team.

For best results only play when your with it and not drunk.


on the contrary!
I'm not promoting the (ab)use of alcohol, but it makes this game a whole lot more bearable in bad drops, and more fun in the rare good drops ;)

#15 Tarogato

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 03:32 PM

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

PPC hit registration - same, still hot garbage. 50/50 shot that your projectiles just port through the target

Missile hit registration - same, still hot garbage if more than ~4 missiles strike at the same time

If 50/50 of your PPC shots go through the target, please record your gameplay. I want to see that, because that is unprecedented.

... or you're just exaggerating and it happens once per night at best, and usually because you misjudged what you saw. Prove me wrong.


Quote

Alpha strikes - heavily penalized in random ways because we STILL have [Redacted] ghost heat

Alpha strikes as a tactic - still ridiculously good because we can't ever find a way to get mixed builds in the game...smdh...

MWO with no ghost heat would be absolutely broken and outrageously imbalanced. Also, you literally just contradicted yourself. You hate ghost heat because it limits alpha strikes, and you want less alpha strikes in the game in favour of mixed builds... ? You can only have one.


Quote

Consumables - mandatory, if you aren't landing arty on things you will lose.

False. I consistently maintain a 1.60 or better win/loss ratio, and for the past few months I've played exclusively solo queue, and only played unleveled mechs with no consumables. (except a handful of Cougar matches because Cougar is bae)



Quote

CB taxes are so high that it's pointless to play in Free to Play mode, you'll need to spend weeks grinding to get even 1 new mech, much less equipment and light engines.

I [Redacted] agree. It's a lot worse than it used to be, ever since the removal of Rule of 3.

Edited by draiocht, 14 December 2018 - 10:16 AM.
inappropriate language, Quote Clean-up


#16 GeminiWolf

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 05:18 PM

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

PPC hit registration - same, still hot garbage. 50/50 shot that your projectiles just port through the target

Missile hit registration - same, still hot garbage if more than ~4 missiles strike at the same time

Alpha strikes - heavily penalized in random ways because we STILL have [Redacted] ghost heat

Alpha strikes as a tactic - still ridiculously good because we can't ever find a way to get mixed builds in the game...smdh...

Range - still dumb, lasers and ppcs and gauss reach farther than a missile (hint this may have something to do with the previous problem of mixed builds

Ammo - unbelievably plentiful with unlocks to make it even stronger

Armor and Structure - holy ever loving god...what exactly is the point of playing a light like my good old jenner when 30 damage is NOTHING...I'd have to ACE the ct of an annihaltor like 10 times to kill it. Holy ****.

Consumables - mandatory, if you aren't landing arty on things you will lose.

CB taxes are so high that it's pointless to play in Free to Play mode, you'll need to spend weeks grinding to get even 1 new mech, much less equipment and light engines.

Overall - little to no improvement in several years. Same core problems. Same catering to the brawl crowd "See mech, walk toward mech, kill or die, repeat" much fun, lots of strategery...smh...

Guess I'll go back to waiting for a mech game to come out...

I love these troll posts... dude didn't play he just wanted to come back here and rant his rant to the choir again... but thank you for the read gave me something to do at work.

Edited by draiocht, 14 December 2018 - 10:16 AM.
Quote Clean-up


#17 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:58 PM

The ammo bit cracked me up. I mean, do you want less ammo and thereby fewer ammo explosions? Or make a decision on simply riding the edge of using up all of the ammo quickly and be less of a walking bomb?

#18 Tyman4

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 01:53 AM

Ye verily, I say unto yee...that the white knights will always come to defend the status quo.

Not with brains but with spam.

To those saying I'm contradictory about alpha strikes: I said that mixed builds could be implemented. This would entail actually creating a range scheme that ISN'T point blank to 800m. Instead, 2k+ missiles, gauss at 1000 (and for god sake a power scale as has been discussed numerous times), acs to 600, shorter weapon systems to 200-400. Increase the visible speed of mechs, and reduce the turret twist rate across the board.

(YES I know there are a bunch or reworks that would need to be done to make that possible. But you'd actually have a game where you needed to THINK about where to go and how to form up, instead of continuous deathball because both sides KNOW where the other is without having to see them)

Remove ghost heat and just adjust the heat scale as needed.

...and the rest looks like salt and gently stroked egos...

carry on.

#19 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 02:34 AM

View PostTyman4, on 14 December 2018 - 01:53 AM, said:

Ye verily, I say unto yee...that the white knights will always come to defend the status quo.

Not with brains but with spam.

To those saying I'm contradictory about alpha strikes: I said that mixed builds could be implemented. This would entail actually creating a range scheme that ISN'T point blank to 800m. Instead, 2k+ missiles, gauss at 1000 (and for god sake a power scale as has been discussed numerous times), acs to 600, shorter weapon systems to 200-400. Increase the visible speed of mechs, and reduce the turret twist rate across the board.

(YES I know there are a bunch or reworks that would need to be done to make that possible. But you'd actually have a game where you needed to THINK about where to go and how to form up, instead of continuous deathball because both sides KNOW where the other is without having to see them)

Remove ghost heat and just adjust the heat scale as needed.

...and the rest looks like salt and gently stroked egos...

carry on.


You'd get a lot better reception here if you weren't such a smarmy *****.

#20 General Blight

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:19 AM

View PostTyman4, on 12 December 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Snip


Do we care - nope.



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