43 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Does having 5 UAC2 and LRM15+A in a slow Assault constitute a sniper build? You'd be easily visible despite being at over 800m range. Or would sporting 3 UAC2 + 3 ERML with ECM at `500m range, always being in motion, be a better sniper? Or massive pinpoint damage be better as a sniper with Dual Heavy Gauss or something?

The Sniper Assaults are something I personally am not too keen on as I'd like to be amongst the front line but what if you've done massive damage and secured some kills come the end of the game? Or would an ECM heavy mech with constant dps from triple UAC2 be better for the team? Can the Dual Heavy Gauss affect the team more positively than the other two builds?

I'm just collecting data for the next mech and playstyle. I know, I know.... I just have to play and experiment, but I'm a numbers guy. So, I'd like to see what your experience has been. What is a good DPS number and acceptable burst damage number in a sniper mech?

[K O Z A K]

I'd say sniper mechs are those whose optimal range is outside 800m, and can hit up to around 1.5k

As such it generally means ac2/lb2/uac2, erppcs, ERLLs

Lrms, ermls and heavy gauss are not sniper weapons

If you're looking at assaults specifically these come to mind: battlemaster 1g 5ERLL, supernova 6ERLL, warhawk 4 ppc, dwf uv 8ac2s, anni/mauler/kcrab with some combination of 6 ac2/uac2

[RickySpanish]

Heavy PPCs. Anything else is whimping out.

[Dee Eight]

Hazeclaw, on 24 December 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

Lrms, ermls and heavy gauss are not sniper weapons

They are in things with stealth armor / ecm and the speed to shoot and reposition quickly. You take a bunch of artemis and stealth tag'ed LRM10s to the back... you're gonna notice it and most people don't look behind them when the missile warning message goes off.

[Grus]

Kdk3 quad gauss...

[Y E O N N E]

Are you hanging back >600 meters? Are you the last survivor almost every match? Are you contributing very little tactical or strategic value to your team? Congratulations, you are a "sniper"!

[Koniving]

I personally differentiate between Sniper builds and Long Range Fire Support.

A sniper should have a hard punch (in MWO) of around 30 damage or greater in a single volley. Ideally enough to do an instant kill against an enemy via headshot or in some cases a backshot. Then it should be able to slink out of sight and relocate within a reasonable amount of time (in an ideal world).

A sniper build typically gets high kills, usually with less than 200 damage (ideally 100 damage) per kill, meaning each kill is extremely efficient.


A sniper build.
Source video at beginning of exchange of fire

Long range fire support is a machine that can provide weak but sustainable DPS over a length of time which can suppress or weaken enemies at long range as well as deliver finishing blows on retreating stragglers. It needs to be able to tank enough to sustain this fire even while under fire, and either have an escort or its own means of close range offense should it either run out of ammo or be ambushed. In an ideal world, this DPS could be upheld for as close to a minute as possible without letting up for more than a couple of seconds.

Here's some examples from yesterday of a long range fire support build.

Spoiler

Koniving, on 23 December 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Personally while I'm not happy with LRM's implementation (or most missile implementations in MWO), I confess that in terms of role, when used as fire suppression and second line (meaning close behind the front line) fire support, it can work well when used with skill. I personally chainfire my LRMs and do not believe in group firing them. I find them far more damaging per missile this way, though I feel this is because otherwise they would be more inclined to not register or flat out miss.

Of my LRM-centric mechs, this one doesn't perform as well as I'd like on kills as I spend more time commanding (and I lack lasers or ballistics of any sort, which is something all my other LRM boats have to some degree).





A fast typer even has time to relay information that other players can use, for example we were hit from three fronts and largely in the open. I was able to relay info, suppress advances and give the other players time to engage, mop up, and shift the front line as needed while lighter mechs halted or hunted weaker advances. At one point I was able to get the entire team to shift the front from one side to the other when we realized a superior force not only existed in the opposite direction but they were pushing, after I held them back long enough to their cover that our lights/mediums were able to flank and reduce their superior numbers with their lives while our remaining heavies/assaults able to make the transition for our counter push. Of course like anyone worth their salt, they finally pushed me as the sole LRM boat (why wouldn't they, my backup weapon was a pair of SRM-2s which I made some extensive use of multiple times) and I finally fell. Am personally impressed with myself making it to 21% at last I was able to check before I fell.

(side note: Their LRM user was the Timber Wolf, and though equipped for both LRMs and brawling, it spent so much time being suppressed by me that it didn't get to do much of either, robbing the enemy team of their LRMs)

-------------

Edit: Wanted to add in another fresh score. No coordination with team or communication as we never had any front to front combat, as such we had a number of soloists out there on both sides including myself. Still using the LRM + two pairs of SRM-2s.




So I've had 5 kills not including two that got away, but including one where I did all the damage myself.
I can hardly complain about LRMs. But then again I can make them turn corners. (Trick is in locking and then relocking intentionally after getting them to fly a certain way; can't do the 180 degree turns like I used to, but you can still pull sharp 90 degree turn).

Edited by Koniving, 24 December 2018 - 10:10 AM.

[HenryFA]

Huntsman with 2xERPPC, TC3, lots of heatsinks

[FRAGTAST1C]

Hmm... interesting. I'd love to get more opinions. The main reason is I've been looking at loadouts for the following mechs

1. HBR-F(C) (or I could swap the ERLLs for triple UAC2 and 3 ERML for end-game close-quarters fighting)

2. MAL-MX90(C)

3. KDK-3(C)

Also, would AC be better than UAC for sniping?

[K O Z A K]

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 December 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Hmm... interesting. I'd love to get more opinions. The main reason is I've been looking at loadouts for the following mechs

1. HBR-F(C) (or I could swap the ERLLs for triple UAC2 and 3 ERML for end-game close-quarters fighting)

2. MAL-MX90(C)

3. KDK-3(C)

Also, would AC be better than UAC for sniping?

if you want to better optimize those mechs as "snipers" use 4ERLL on the HBR, 6 AC2s on MX90, KDK isn't really a sniper mech, I guess you could do quad gauss

[Y E O N N E]

Ditch the LRMs on the Mauler, they will not help you. Just go all-in on 6x AC/2. Actually, I'd really just recommend using 6x UAC/2. You sacrifice some range, but only a tiny bit.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Koniving, on 24 December 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

I personally differentiate between Sniper builds and Long Range Fire Support.

A sniper should have a hard punch (in MWO) of around 30 damage or greater in a single volley. Ideally enough to do an instant kill against an enemy via headshot or in some cases a backshot. Then it should be able to slink out of sight and relocate within a reasonable amount of time (in an ideal world).

A sniper build typically gets high kills, usually with less than 200 damage (ideally 100 damage) per kill, meaning each kill is extremely efficient.

The thing is, I'm currently piloting the Kraken (AC20 + 2 MRM30) and getting solo kills is easy and the burst damage is great. I've tried other type of mechs like Javelin 11F (backstabbing scout), Ares (light brawler with 2 SRM6+A), Bounty Hunter (heavy brawler with ERPPC, 6 ML + AC20) and Revenant (fire support with LRMs and MPL). I'm now looking for either laser vomit or sniper builds but I'm kind of unsure if I want to have sustained high DPS or burst damage.

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

Ditch the LRMs on the Mauler, they will not help you. Just go all-in on 6x AC/2. Actually, I'd really just recommend using 6x UAC/2. You sacrifice some range, but only a tiny bit.

Yep, I checked that out and I just put the LRM there to hit indirectly, in some occasions, just as an option. Not really serious with LRM.

Hazeclaw, on 24 December 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

if you want to better optimize those mechs as "snipers" use 4ERLL on the HBR, 6 AC2s on MX90, KDK isn't really a sniper mech, I guess you could do quad gauss

Hmm... I had initially thought of laser vomit for Hellbringer. The nice with this mech is I can change the loadout entirely, including the hardpoints if need be. I'll check the ERLL build.

[Koniving]

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 December 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

The thing is, I'm currently piloting the Kraken (AC20 + 2 MRM30) and getting solo kills is easy and the burst damage is great. I've tried other type of mechs like Javelin 11F (backstabbing scout), Ares (light brawler with 2 SRM6+A), Bounty Hunter (heavy brawler with ERPPC, 6 ML + AC20) and Revenant (fire support with LRMs and MPL). I'm now looking for either laser vomit or sniper builds but I'm kind of unsure if I want to have sustained high DPS or burst damage.

It was unsaid but we're also factoring in long range, say 700 to 2000 meters for "sniper" and "long range fire support"

Many of what you've listed are pumping out their best damage and/or DPS at significantly shorter ranges.

As for that, it depends on if you're better off at holding targets or getting in that one good shot and going back into cover. Given the assaults you described I'd say you might be better off with DPS as they can't get into cover easily.

(can't get back into cover easily^)

[JediPanther]

I prefer ecm mechs with ppcs and lrms for my sniping. No laser burn pointing back at me, trail of ac shells or flashing or ac barrels. Snub ppc on lct works great or a single hppc on a 35t.

[The6thMessenger]

I'm pretty sure mechs equipped ac20 could be a sniper, after all it's just a role of poking, of putting great damage at someplace and usually getting a kill. It just so happens that we have long-range weapons for that, and long-range weapons usually works better especially at area denial.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 December 2018 - 07:31 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Koniving, on 24 December 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

derp

Whoa, five kills, that's a quarter of your entire season total, which means you got a whole 15 kills in your other 37 matches. That is, unless you photoshopped this one too.

[Koniving]

Kubernetes, on 24 December 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

Whoa, five kills, that's a quarter of your entire season total, which means you got a whole 15 kills in your other 37 matches. That is, unless you photoshopped this one too.

You humor me with your ignorance.
But here's another two for you from an even earlier match.

Unfortunately about 10 of my matches have had issues even leaving the spawn point and if you're tracking what I do as thoroughly as you claim, you might even be aware of the time I've self-destructed before even leaving the dropship.

It apparently baffled everyone.

Including myself. Literally exploding during the countdown sequence as a suicide.

[Lykaon]

Ideally a sniper mech to me means two things.

Stealth capability (ECM and difficult to track projectiles like gauss rounds)

A primary weapon loadout designed to engage at ranges in the area of 700m+

Something like a MAD-IIC-D with ECM and gauss.

[Kubernetes]

Koniving, on 24 December 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

more derp.

Does that happen to you every month? Because your current stats are similar to your historical stats. So no photoshop this time? That's two matches with 7 kills, which leaves 13 kills in your other 36.

[Koniving]

Kubernetes, on 24 December 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

Does that happen to you every month? Because your current stats are similar to your historical stats. So no photoshop this time? That's two matches with 7 kills, which leaves 13 kills in your other 36.

Javelin with Light Gauss help explain it?
10 matches of not getting out of the spawn point before dying. (Fatherhood. 7.7)

That leaves 13 kills in 7 remaining matches.

These issues also come up occasionally.



But what does any of this and your personal attacks have to do with the difference between a sniper or fire support build? Did you have any disagreement with my definitions or were you just seeking to make an attack for the sake of antagonizing someone?

Edited by Koniving, 24 December 2018 - 08:40 PM.