47 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Experienced players can ignore this thread, because they already know and do what follows. This thread is for the significant number of inexperienced or less skilled players who are regularly thrust into my "Tier 1" matches.

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Many Quick Play stomps happen for the simple reason that half a team just sits back, hiding behind something, not firing their weapons.

That passivity enables an even mildly aggressive OpFor to focus their weapons on the half of your team that is actually shooting back. Your team's few fighters then get killed - because the hiders effectively forced them to fight 1v2 - after which the OpFor can simply roll over the top of the hiders' positions.

Please, for the love of Kerensky, consistently shoot your weapons. Don't take up a position behind your favourite hill/building/rock and just sit there while a few guys at the front try to fight the entire enemy team by themselves.

MWO is all about consistent damage output over time and positioning. If you're not consistently firing your weapons at an enemy, or moving to a position where you can fire at the enemy, then you are probably causing your team to lose.

Incidentally, you will earn a lot more C-Bills if you follow my advice.

Edited by Appogee, 20 December 2018 - 08:42 AM.

[Verilligo]

I get what you're saying and can agree with you up to a point. But let me ask you a question as you're more experienced and thus should be able to offer some good advice. What do you do when you are unable to fire your weapons because you are out of their viable range, but are also unable to discern a way of effectively closing the distance without either excessive return fire or causing yourself to become isolated? Some of the time I have run into this problem because of my own failure at being able to suss out a route that brought my guns to bear, but a lot of the time it seems there is no way to effectively close the gap without either losing support or taking heavy armor loss.

Am I supposed to wait in cover until an opening presents itself? What if none does or my own lack of experience prevents me from seeing the vital moment? What is the intelligent action to take so that I am not a burden on my team when I can't see any good available options? The default answer seems to be to find a way to rotate so that I can make a crossing and get into either a flank or the rear and accept what comes, but I don't want to just be That Guy who starts the NASCAR.

[Vxheous]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

I get what you're saying and can agree with you up to a point. But let me ask you a question as you're more experienced and thus should be able to offer some good advice. What do you do when you are unable to fire your weapons because you are out of their viable range, but are also unable to discern a way of effectively closing the distance without either excessive return fire or causing yourself to become isolated? Some of the time I have run into this problem because of my own failure at being able to suss out a route that brought my guns to bear, but a lot of the time it seems there is no way to effectively close the gap without either losing support or taking heavy armor loss.

Am I supposed to wait in cover until an opening presents itself? What if none does or my own lack of experience prevents me from seeing the vital moment? What is the intelligent action to take so that I am not a burden on my team when I can't see any good available options? The default answer seems to be to find a way to rotate so that I can make a crossing and get into either a flank or the rear and accept what comes, but I don't want to just be That Guy who starts the NASCAR.

Bring mechs that can function at 500m ranges, which will basically let you fight in 95% of quickplay situations

[Jackal Noble]

Vxheous, on 20 December 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Bring mechs that can function at 500m ranges, which will basically let you fight in 95% of quickplay situations

My favorite is when get a dom match on polar highlands and someone laments how they are effectively short range. Even better a dual heavy gauss Fafnir saying he can only shoot under 270-80m.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 20 December 2018 - 08:18 AM.

[Verilligo]

Vxheous, on 20 December 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Bring mechs that can function at 500m ranges, which will basically let you fight in 95% of quickplay situations

That's generally what I've noticed, too, and I'm fine with running builds that allow for fighting at that range. But occasionally one does have the desire to mix it up a bit, or certain mechs just lend themselves to certain ranges based on quirks/hardpoints, and you can be left in an awkward situation. That's what I'm curious about, the best way of coping with those awkward situations without immediately obvious solutions.

[Vxheous]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

That's generally what I've noticed, too, and I'm fine with running builds that allow for fighting at that range. But occasionally one does have the desire to mix it up a bit, or certain mechs just lend themselves to certain ranges based on quirks/hardpoints, and you can be left in an awkward situation. That's what I'm curious about, the best way of coping with those awkward situations without immediately obvious solutions.

In those situations, knowing map terrain and how to close is the most vital.

[R Valentine]

Yes, the game is won by shooting, not by avoiding being shot. Though you should strive not to get shot, in the end no game is won without incurring damage yourself. What matters most is that you get to a point where you can provide effective fire first and that you get to the trigger first and that you hit the enemy first. If they do all of that first you're already losing, and it's an uphill battle to regain that loss of initiative.

[Weeny Machine]

Appogee, on 20 December 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

Experienced players can ignore this thread, because they already know and do what follows. This thread is for the significant number of inexperienced or less skilled players who are regularly thrust into my "Tier 1" matches.

---

Many Quick Play stomps happen for the simple reason that half a team just sits back, hiding behind something, not firing their weapons.

That kinds of passivity enables an even mildly aggressive OpFor to focus their weapons on the half of your team that is actually shooting back. Your team's few fighters then get killed - because the hiders effectively forced them fight 2v1 - and then the OpFor can simply roll over the top of the hiders' positions.

Please, for the love of Kerensky, consistently shoot your weapons. Don't take up a position behind your favourite hill/building/rock and just sit there while a few guys at the front try to fight the entire enemy team by themselves.

MWO is all about consistent damage output over time and positioning. If you're not consistently firing your weapons at an enemy, or moving to a position where you can fire at the enemy, then you are probably causing your team to lose.

Incidentally, you will earn a lot more C-Bills if you follow my advice.

Too bad that we poor light pilots sometimes have to wait for our opportunity because staring at the guns of heavies and assaults with 500+ m range isn't healthy when you have SPLs or MGs or SLs

[R Valentine]

Bush Hopper, on 20 December 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Too bad that we poor light pilots sometimes have to wait for our opportunity because staring at the guns of heavies and assaults with 500+ m range isn't healthy when you have SPLs or MGs or SLs

If anything, peeking with light mechs is even more effective because you can minimize exposure more effectively with your responsive acceleration and deceleration. Yes, positioning is important, but you can GTFO if you feel your position is compromised, unlike my Annihilator which is sort of stuck where it is unless there's teammates to cover me on my long, slow, saunter out.

[Verilligo]

Vxheous, on 20 December 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

In those situations, knowing map terrain and how to close is the most vital.

Then here's a more specific question, which may be especially appropriate to ask a member of Empyreal. Do you actually have the layout of every map in the game memorized? I mean with most maps that's not too hard, there's plenty of landmarks to orient yourself with, but when it comes to something like Polar Highlands on modes other than Domination or Conquest, every time I play on the map it feels like I'm seeing it for the first time, without a good idea of where the best approach routes and gullies are. The overhead map doesn't always seem to be reliable in those cases, so how do you go about memorizing the layout? Is it just pure practice or are there easier ways of knowing or recognizing the lay of the land?

[Appogee]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

I get what you're saying and can agree with you up to a point. But let me ask you a question as you're more experienced and thus should be able to offer some good advice. What do you do when you are unable to fire your weapons because you are out of their viable range, but are also unable to discern a way of effectively closing the distance without either excessive return fire or causing yourself to become isolated? Some of the time I have run into this problem because of my own failure at being able to suss out a route that brought my guns to bear, but a lot of the time it seems there is no way to effectively close the gap without either losing support or taking heavy armor loss.

Am I supposed to wait in cover until an opening presents itself? What if none does or my own lack of experience prevents me from seeing the vital moment? What is the intelligent action to take so that I am not a burden on my team when I can't see any good available options? The default answer seems to be to find a way to rotate so that I can make a crossing and get into either a flank or the rear and accept what comes, but I don't want to just be That Guy who starts the NASCAR.

Generally, in QP you can avoid that situation by taking a Mech with mid-range weapons.

However, if you are in that situation, you take a loooong hidden route around behind the enemy, and attack a Mech at the very back, from behind. Start by dropping an arty strike into the highest concentration of enemies, or an air strike into the back of the Mech you're about to attack.

In these situations it's important to avoid attacking from a position where the entire enemy team can just turn around and swat you. You may need to hide and spot enemies for a little while, until you can safely isolate a target.

Plus, if you're taking a Mech with close range weapons, I trust it's also fast, and ideally has ECM to enable you to be more sneaky and evade fire.

Edited by Appogee, 20 December 2018 - 08:49 AM.

[Appogee]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

... when it comes to something like Polar Highlands on modes other than Domination or Conquest, every time I play on the map it feels like I'm seeing it for the first time, without a good idea of where the best approach routes and gullies are.

That map is so big you can just take any route following gullies to get around behind the enemy. Again, being in a fast, ECM/Stealth Mech helps.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Just now, I got off a match in Rubellite Oasis where both sides had LRM assaults by the bucketload. There were also some Heavy mechs who could do something other than decorating the map with explosions. Anyway, I asked the team to move and stay in cover. Then, I asked them to move a tiny bit to the centre near E6 and to follow me. Only 2 of them listened. The 3 of us went up there, I got 2 kills and 3 assists with 2 solo kills and other two got 1 kill each. They died, I was all alone fighting off the enemy team while asking for help. One guy replied, "No, E6 has enemies". That's the whole point. The guy who died last was complaining before the match that he was having a bad time playing today. Guess what he was piloting.... a Kingcrab with LRMs. No wonder he was having a bad time.

But I can't complain too much. I've started to be more patient and engage with the team and the games have been better ever since I started using the Kraken. I first started MWO with a Revenant, then Javelin 11F, Ares and Bounty Hunter. I maxed out the Revenant without altering the loadout. I experimented a bit with the Javelin and found that there wasn't much to change. The Ares and Bounty Hunter, on the other hand, were bad experiences early on, especially the Ares. Once I changed their loadouts, the match experience got better. But the Kraken has been great and it seems that other players tend to respond to clear suggestions about staying in cover and being patient. I often tell players to stay together and to stay close as I have a Laser AMS and even constantly ask some of them who end up alone in the front, to fall back rather than pushing forward. When I start to advance, I ask the team to follow me and more often than not, they listen and sometimes, one of them tells the others to, "Follow the Kraken", which makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

Anyway, I just had to share that.

[Vxheous]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

Then here's a more specific question, which may be especially appropriate to ask a member of Empyreal. Do you actually have the layout of every map in the game memorized? I mean with most maps that's not too hard, there's plenty of landmarks to orient yourself with, but when it comes to something like Polar Highlands on modes other than Domination or Conquest, every time I play on the map it feels like I'm seeing it for the first time, without a good idea of where the best approach routes and gullies are. The overhead map doesn't always seem to be reliable in those cases, so how do you go about memorizing the layout? Is it just pure practice or are there easier ways of knowing or recognizing the lay of the land?

Most maps it's just a matter of playing a ton on them. In terms of polar, there's lots of low ground that you can use to close on, just have to be aware of where the enemy is deathballing to.

[LordNothing]

Appogee, on 20 December 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

Please, for the love of Kerensky, consistently shoot your weapons. Don't take up a position behind your favourite hill/building/rock/meatshield and just sit there while a few guys at the front try to fight the entire enemy team by themselves.

fixed

Edited by LordNothing, 20 December 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[LordNothing]

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

That's generally what I've noticed, too, and I'm fine with running builds that allow for fighting at that range. But occasionally one does have the desire to mix it up a bit, or certain mechs just lend themselves to certain ranges based on quirks/hardpoints, and you can be left in an awkward situation. That's what I'm curious about, the best way of coping with those awkward situations without immediately obvious solutions.

you might consider dropping in fp, a lot of maps there are very brawl friendly, and it usually happens at least one wave every match. if lights are your thing, they usually can get out of sticky situations, just remember to keep moving. you can also afford to poke around a bit more to get a picture the situation before you commit to attack. you can usually bail on a bad situation without the enemy ever knowing you were there.

Verilligo, on 20 December 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

Then here's a more specific question, which may be especially appropriate to ask a member of Empyreal. Do you actually have the layout of every map in the game memorized? I mean with most maps that's not too hard, there's plenty of landmarks to orient yourself with, but when it comes to something like Polar Highlands on modes other than Domination or Conquest, every time I play on the map it feels like I'm seeing it for the first time, without a good idea of where the best approach routes and gullies are. The overhead map doesn't always seem to be reliable in those cases, so how do you go about memorizing the layout? Is it just pure practice or are there easier ways of knowing or recognizing the lay of the land?

i don't play nearly at their level and i have most of the maps pretty well memorized. though i do still get lost in solaris city from time to time.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 December 2018 - 10:18 AM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

[Mochyn Pupur]

The match is actually won by running away from your own team in the time honoured nascar route, that way as the heavy damage mechs are being shredded, you can run off and hide . . . er, I mean double back . . . nope that's not it . . . yep - watch your side crumble because you left them all behind . . .

[Alan Hicks]

Of course the OP is right.

I just don't care anymore. I've lost faith completely in this game, the devs responsible for game-play (not the art or design section) and the new or old flush of players that play like mentally challenged individuals. Additionally, some bring really bad builds into play. A lot are obvious cowards, justifying themselves that they are careful and patient.

With the god-damned match-maker every game here is a recipe for disaster, few are really worth it.

I used to play every mech class except for lights, and now I just switched mainly to those, because is no longer worth it doing high damage in this game. My stats are gone down the drain and I don't care. This game is rarely fair or with balanced teams, no wonder why MW5 will lack PvP combat. Probably PGI is just unable to bring a decent MM.

I just play for "fun" now (not much around here anyway), win or lose is almost the same to me. Most teams inaction and behavior finally got me completely demoralized.

Edited by Alan Hicks, 20 December 2018 - 12:14 PM.

[Novakaine]

Yeah it's gotten seriously bad when I have to say....................
"If you don't know what to do or where go follow the damn lurm boat."