83 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 21 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

Take me as an example of a player that does not currently belong in Tier 1. Two years ago, I belonged in Tier 1. This was right after MWOWC 2016, at the peak of my activity in game, and admittedly, at what I feel like was the peak of my skill. Since then ... I've played less (much less)...

I feel like I belong in a lower Tier, mostly to be fair to the actual good players in Tier 1 who expect more of their team mates.

TL;DR: Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

Shadowomega1, on 21 December 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

It needs a full rework to be of any use. Combined with someway to balance out teams by skill level so 1 or 2 good pilots are not with 10 players wouldn't even been allowed near a tractor. [tee-hee]

justcallme A S H, on 21 December 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

There is little point to a reset. The two (ie, proper solution) go hand in hand

While PSR doesn't work well as a skill ranking system (which isn't surprising since it measures playing experience more than any amount of skill,) we're not stuck with a choice between a reset and a rework to solve Kageru's issue - a decay of PSR after a certain amount of inactivity would also have prevented his being placed into tier 1 despite his skills atrophying after a long period of inactivity.

Note that I'm not agreeing or disagreeing about the system needing a rework. I'm just pointing out that there's an alternate solution here; and one which won't interfere with a subsequent rework of PSR.

Edited by Void Angel, 22 December 2018 - 02:04 PM.

[LordNothing]

rather than bubble up everyone should bubble to tier 3. thus anyone not in tier 3 is either very good or very bad. this can also work with 3 tiers with the t2 being neutral and all other tiers bubbling to it. or get rid of the bubbling all together and have tiers represent even fractions of the population.

[Helreginn]

A solution I think could work would be something like taking the previous months average matchscore and building teams from that.

Lets take OP's idea of top 15% Tier 1, next 20% Tier 2, middle 30% Tier 3, next 20% Tier 4, and bottom 15%/Newbies Tier 5. Newbies can progress faster if performing well so they don't have to wait a full month to progress if say they joined 1st of the month. Matching this way you could still pool Tiers 1-3 or 3-5 but have more balance since the tiers are much more balanced than with this PSR.

This would also give a truer skill value for matchscore since the matchscore being used would change month by month a player for example with a 280 score in month 1 that slightly inflated their numbers with score padding tactics could move up in tier for month 2 where those tactics are less effective most likely dropping their score to more natural values by month 3.

[Kotis77]

Why people wont want PSR reset? It could bring some freshness to game. Could lead some better games after week or two when people who really belongs tier 1 get up there. And low skill players could have fun games too with skill levels that they really belongs. I think we all know that PGI wont admit their mistake on PSR shitshow or try to make full overhaul to that. (Which is kinda sad. Normal human beings usually admits their mistakes and try to fix them. And usually gets healthy response when they admits their mistakes.)

Still LRM/ATMS are really unbalanced and i think we don't ever gonna get that fixed. But i would be happy with only PSR reset. And i think it wouldn't take too many mouse clicks and keyboard button pressing. Max 8 hours? Like one person workday. Easy fix? And if it gonna make difference to gameplay then PGI would know to fix PSR for better gameplay for all?

And before some lowskill lrm player gonna say otherwise. Lets talk about skill. There is so many topic full of lowskill players that think they know whats going on in game, but they really don't. Don't matter if its regular or E sports best player/athlete knows whats going on game/sport that they play. If someone with highskill would train player on jarls list n. 25000 to top notch player he would find out same thing as rest of us. That this game balance and matchmaking/PSR sucks.

And people say this is niche game. Battletech tabletop is facking niche game(don't mean new online game, but that what people did play in parents basement.) If you would make stompy online robot game right there would be more players, most of men and some women like stompy robot game if its good. Poorly made games like this is "niche" game.

And one thing i hate about this game it doesn't feel like its 1000 years from now. Yeah you shouldnt bring logic to computer games, but modern cars/tanks are more agile than than state of the art battlemechs from future. And cars/tanks don't get stuck in little rocks and can climb regular hill. And in MW5 early demo atlas can climb almost vertical hill :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DD:D:D:

Edited by Kotis77, 22 December 2018 - 06:51 PM.

[Appogee]

Here is how to fix PSR.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Appogee, on 22 December 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Here is how to fix PSR.

Expand the ends of the bell curve a bit to support the match maker -- so that Tier 1 can still get a match without waiting 5 minutes -- and I agree, 100%.

However, this would take work on PGI's part, which I'm trying to minimize.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 22 December 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Appogee, on 22 December 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Here is how to fix PSR.

Why many of you can't understand, that in balanced match all players won't be able to have 350+ average match score? Why? Because on average it's only about 100dmg needed to kill one 'Mech. And in case of balanced matches average K/D should be around 1.

You should clearly understand, that some players have better than average results now, just because they play against weaker players, who have worse results. If they will be forced to play against players with equal skill only - they won't be able to have such high results.

That's why PSR system is right at least theoretically. PGI has chosen some average performance, that they treat as normal for balanced match. W/L = 1 and MS = 200..250. Everything below this value means, that player plays above his level of skill and his rating should drop. Everything above this means, that players plays well below his level of skill and his rating should rise.

Obvious problem with current system - some bias towards increasing, i.e. when players have better match scores, their rating rises faster, than when they have worse match scores and their rating drops. As you can see my average results are below W/L = 1 and MS = 200. But all of a sudden I couldn't drop back Tier 4, no matter how bad my stats were and, guess what? I'm in Tier 2 now.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 December 2018 - 11:11 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

I thought about this for a bit... And I think a simple reset of the PSR is not going to do as much as people hope. It would have to be a new system implemented.

If it is a simple reset, everybody will start over in the same Tier. Granted, the really good players will move out of that Tier really quickly, but in the meantime, the "real" T5-T4 players are not going to have much fun with the huge influx of players that they cannot compete against. Possibly driving several of them out of the game.

So this would have to be coupled with a change in how the "levelling" in Tiers happens... Most of us remember the graph used for "Exp" gain...

http://i.imgur.com/TpRKr5n.jpg

So at the minimum, the movement downward should completely mirror the movement upward you get. If your MS is 50 over the average, you need to get the exact same experience that someone with an MS of 50 under the average loses. I am willing to bet that this is hard coded somewhere in MWO, because I doubt they have configuration tables set up to do maintenance on these values... So hopefully, it should not be too hard to change the values.

Everything else would probably require developer resources they do not have (for MWO) and most likely never will.

[Appogee]

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Why many of you can't understand, that in balanced match all players won't be able to have 350+ average match score? Why? Because on average it's only about 100dmg needed to kill one 'Mech.

My proposed system allows for that. If matches were balanced, then the whole population's Average Match Score would move downwards and the PSR Tiers would move accordingly.

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

You should clearly understand, that some players have better than average results now, just because they play against weaker players, who have worse results.

That would happen much less under my system.

[MrMadguy]

Appogee, on 23 December 2018 - 12:18 AM, said:

My proposed system allows for that. If matches were balanced, then the whole population's Average Match Score would move downwards and the PSR Tiers would move accordingly.

That would happen much less under my system.

You just don't understand, that skill - is relative thing, not absolute.

That, let's say, 200 match score in Tier 5 and 200 match score in Tier 1 - are two completely different things. For example in Tier 5 I would have 1000k dmg, i.e. 600 match score in every match. Would it make me Tier 1 player? No. Because in Tier 1 I would have 100 match score. Where I belong to? I belong to Tier 4, may be 3 at best, where I would have 250 average match score.

[Burning2nd]

PSR should just be removed all together..

You should do it by cockpit time

kdr doesnt mean anything
cbills dont mean anything..

after so many years its just about having fun, I mean the psr is judging a book by its cover

I would be great that when i enter a match im there with only tier 1 BUt that doesnt happen.. so you got a guy with 11days of cockpit time in a locust vs a bunch of guys who just got some free mechs... HOW do you think thats going to end ?

[MrMadguy]

Ehhh. This game is usually better during holidays and events. That's why I decided to start playing it again.

(Only bad thing in this case - is completely OP Piranhas. PGI should know, that they will be the reason, why I will stop playing in a nearest future again.)

But today matchmaker has gone crazy again. Three garbage matches in a row and I really doubt, it will improve in a nearest future. And I don't even know, how to fix it. Even reward bonuses won't fix it. May be damage/armour bonuses to players, who have to play against Tier 1 pros or some guys, who have escaped from their FW hell?

[arcana75]

Just make it totally random and let the Gods sort it out.

[Kotis77]

Darakor Stormwind, on 22 December 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

I thought about this for a bit... And I think a simple reset of the PSR is not going to do as much as people hope. It would have to be a new system implemented.

If it is a simple reset, everybody will start over in the same Tier. Granted, the really good players will move out of that Tier really quickly, but in the meantime, the "real" T5-T4 players are not going to have much fun with the huge influx of players that they cannot compete against. Possibly driving several of them out of the game.

But tier 1 plays have been s h i t for ages because scrubs are there who doesn't belong there. We have been playing with guys who have no clue for 2 years now? And it has been driving best players out of game. Can us in tier 1 finally have some good games? So many been smurfing in new accounts and says match are better there. Can we have some better matches? In perfect world PGI would fix PSR and we all would have fun, but is not gonna happen. All PGI is willing to do is small fixes. Like 5 mins of coding...

And nowdays most developers just wanna herd players that have money to spend, but got no clue or will to get better at games. And i think because of that we have LRM/ATM so OP atm.

Edited by Kotis77, 23 December 2018 - 08:06 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Appogee, on 22 December 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Here is how to fix PSR.

I'm so down for that distribution !

[HammerMaster]

Appogee, on 22 December 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Here is how to fix PSR.

This NEEDS to happen.
My only tweak would be tier 1 is 1%.

[Luminis]

Do we have any numbers on the current distribution?

My gut feeling is that apprx. 50% of the player base seem to be in T1 & T2, thus potentially in the same matches. Might be false, but I got no actual numbers.

[Y E O N N E]

HammerMaster, on 26 December 2018 - 09:23 AM, said:

This NEEDS to happen.
My only tweak would be tier 1 is 1%.

Wouldn't matter, with so few players they'd still be playing with T2 and T3.

[Brauer]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Wouldn't matter, with so few players they'd still be playing with T2 and T3.

That wouldn't be so bad if each team had an equal distribution of players from tiers that are actually ordered by something resembling skill. I like Appogee's suggestion, it doesn't fix everything, but it (or something similar) would help balance teams more. As it stands there are people in tier one who are pretty bad, people who are reasonably effective, and people who carry fairly reliably (top 1-3% of pilots I think. Weighing those three the same in the matchmaker is a big problem and contributes to stomps. With Appogees model the bad tier 1 pilots would (I think) drop to tiers 4 and 3, the decent pilots go to 2, and the best stay at 1, which enables the matchmaker to differentiate between them and build more balanced teams.

Some might want a psr reset to wall the best and worst off completely, but with the population we have that likely isn't realistic. But that doesn't mean a reset couldn't improve matches.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm not disagreeing with Appogee's suggestion, just stating that T1 being the top-performing 2.5% or 1% doesn't make a functional difference.