29 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Much like any year in the history of this game, last year multiple players went to the forums to bemoan the horrific grind in MW: O. Many players joined in with them, complaining about the cost of skilling up a Mech, the cost of upgrades themselves, engines, Mech Bays, camo & colours... what have you. Likewise, other players pointed out the quality of life here, compared to other games like World of Tanks or World of Warships. Cost of Mechs in the store, the short grind to 91 skill points, etc.

I was of the opinion that we had it pretty good here, that the game was an easy grind compared to other F2P games and that PGI treats us really well with freebies, events and other giveaways.

Last year, with the MechCon announcement of the SunSpider and Roughneck giveaway, I decided to take that opportunity to form an alt account and run it over the course of a year, just to see what a player can accomplish with minimal financial input into the game. It was a perfect opportunity, given that the Stocking Stuffer event was going on at that same time, along with a code for seven days of free Premium Time.

I started the account on December 20th under the pilot name Alex Deathson [shout out to Alex Lifeson from RUSH]. I had a few personal rules I was going to follow in the opening months to simulate the new player experience and avoid clubbing newer players... to the extent someone of my skill level could club anyone. [Go for it, Stat-Shamers… hit up the Jarl's List and fight me.]

• I would buy a Mech as soon as possible and slowly upgrade it.
  
• I would limit spending to no more than $15.00 during the year.
  
• I would make nothing close to a maximized build, instead cobbling my Mech together with whatever I could buy easily or gain through Supply Cache rewards.

I started the account and played through the tutorial and my first 25 games. Below is a link to a post I made about that process/experience last winter.






https://mwomercs.com...first-25-games/


tl dr Played the tutorial, took advantage of the free 8 days of Premium Time and stocking stuffer event, in combination with the cadet bonus rewards, to purchase an Assassin ASN-27 and kit-kabosh together a serviceable Mech, complete with camouflage and colours.

========================================================================

Here is my account overview as of this afternoon.

I have played 480 games over the course of the year with this account, a handful of which were in Trial Mechs, filling in where my current Mech assets could not complete a daily event task. After spending nothing more than the $15.00 or so on the Tournament Supporter Pack, here is what my account looks like.

Mech Assets [How it made it into my account]

Piranha PIR-A [Bought]
Nova NVA-S(C) [Reward]
Hellbringer HBR-Prime [Bought]
Night Gyr NTG-H(C) [Reward]
Orion IIC ON1-IIC [Bought]
SunSpider SNS-VG [Reward]
Blood Asp BAS-A [NGNG Draw] o/
Blood Asp BAS-B [NGNG Draw]
Blood Asp BAS-Prime(S) [NGNG Draw]
Assassin ASN-27 [Bought]
Uziel UZL-3P(C) [Reward]
Rifleman RFC-3C [Bought]
Roughneck RGH-PH [Reward]

*** All thirteen Mechs above are fully spec'd out with 91 skill points. ***
** I sold off the Blood Asp BAS-Prime as a redundant chassis, leaving one open Mech Bay. **
* All above Mechs have a one shot camo pattern or stock camo pattern with colours/decals. *

Mech Credits : 1130
C-Bills : 5429709
GXP [GXP]: 504

Fifty-one weapons of various design, twenty-nine various equipment items [including one spare XL 300] and nine Omni-Pods held within inventory.

Colours available: Basic [Purple, Red, Green, Blue and Orange]. Camo [Black, Gray, Lt. Gray, Camo Blue, Brown], Cinnabar and Piranha Yellow.

Decals: Thirty-five, of which only four were purchased.

Forty Standing, fourteen Hanging and twenty-seven Mounted cockpit items, of which none were purchased.

======================================================================

I'm pretty happy with the progress of the account, given that I spent minimally on it and I have much to show for it. So, no... in my opinion, PGI treats us pretty good, and the grind is not hard at all.

Cheers and Merry X-mas to all.

P.S. I'm sitting on 45 hrs of Premium Time, having unlocked 2-Days worth on the last match I played.

Edited by Felbombling, 20 December 2018 - 03:15 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

I find that MW:O is probably one of the most generous free to play games out there. The only other one I can think of is STO with their christmas event, but even still I gotta give credit where it's due. PGI really went all out this year and I'm glad I got back into MW:O since my hiatus.

[MechaBattler]

And they just e-mailed me a code for 7 days premium time free. With this awesome art. If this was Alex, PGI needs to have him do more stuff like this. :3

[crazytimes]

I come from WoT. That is a brutal grind. This is a casual game in comparison.

In 6 months, for a total cost of 1x $5 MC pack, I have some 29 bays, 23 mechs, 4 of which are hero/champions, most of my mechs are fully skilled, with no premium time other than what has been gifted.

I appreciate the economy has shifted a lot over the years- now everything is getting thrown at people in a desperate attempt to keep numbers. It is damned easy going for a F2P game though and I will enjoy it while it lasts.

[Felbombling]

MechaBattler, on 20 December 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

And they just e-mailed me a code for 7 days premium time free. With this awesome art. If this was Alex, PGI needs to have him do more stuff like this. :3

See that branch tied to the Urbie's head... that's right out of How the Grinch Stole Christmas! LOL Takes me back to my childhood, watching Christmas cartoons with my older sister.

[jss78]

Compared to World of Tanks/Warships/Warplanes, MWO never really felt like it has grind at all.

It's a really different system because there's no tiering of the 'mechs. There's also no crew skill system, like in World of XXX franchise where you need MILLIONS of XP to get high-skill crews. In MWO you maybe a few dozen games to get a 'mech and skill it out. And that's exactly all you can do.

You can get your end-game 'mech with your cadet bonus. Then you play it and fairly soon you have another fully tricked out 'mech. This is not a grind, I don't even think about it like that. I just pick a fun 'mech I have, play it. Once in a while I buy a new one.

[thievingmagpi]

yeah got to like tier 7 in world of warships... pass. plus I think pug matches in wow are even lower skilled than mwo.

[LordNothing]

if this game is a generous free to play, i dont think i will be playing any more f2p games in the future. the bubble will burst.

[TheBossOfYou]

thievingmagpi, on 20 December 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

yeah got to like tier 7 in world of warships... pass. plus I think pug matches in wow are even lower skilled than mwo.

WoW was an absolutely brutal soulkilling grind.

Man, it was really bad. Getting stuck in the pepsicola with guys saying "man, the Pensacola rocks, you just need to learn that you have much bigger guns than destroyers, but not other cruisers or battleships, and you're not fast, and you don't have torpedoes, and you have to hand crank the turrets around yourself. Oh, and any battleship can citadel you from any angle. Also, people can see you from space(seriously, battleship level detection)"

You CANNOT just not play the pensacola. You HAVE to play it. Along with every other trash tier ship in any line so you can get to the sweet sweet "unfair" tier X ship everybody complains about(Stupid Mino. Stupid Des Moines. Cowardly Shimakaze with super long range hail mary torp spreads, GD GUNBOATS. Zao, please stop throwing HE. Every single battleship ever. Fletcher OP. )

[Felbombling]

Grimmwold, on 20 December 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

WoW was an absolutely brutal soulkilling grind.

Man, it was really bad. Getting stuck in the pepsicola with guys saying "man, the Pensacola rocks, you just need to learn that you have much bigger guns than destroyers, but not other cruisers or battleships, and you're not fast, and you don't have torpedoes, and you have to hand crank the turrets around yourself. Oh, and any battleship can citadel you from any angle. Also, people can see you from space(seriously, battleship level detection)"

You CANNOT just not play the pensacola. You HAVE to play it. Along with every other trash tier ship in any line so you can get to the sweet sweet "unfair" tier X ship everybody complains about(Stupid Mino. Stupid Des Moines. Cowardly Shimakaze with super long range hail mary torp spreads, GD GUNBOATS. Zao, please stop throwing HE. Every single battleship ever. Fletcher OP. )

When you have premium time slowly ticking away on World of Warships, yet don't care... you've hit tier VIII. Sooooo close to tier X, yet so far. The Monarch is brutal, I find.

[Athom83]

Just to get this out there as OP mentioned WoT;
In WoT starting out, you could be expecting around 15k of the game currency every match without running a premium account. Mid level vehicles at tier 5 of 10 cost about 9 million of the in game currency... each, out of the numerous nations and numerous tech lines within those nations. Feel like MWO has a hard grind now?

[crazytimes]

Athom83, on 20 December 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

Just to get this out there as OP mentioned WoT;
In WoT starting out, you could be expecting around 15k of the game currency every match without running a premium account. Mid level vehicles at tier 5 of 10 cost about 9 million of the in game currency... each, out of the numerous nations and numerous tech lines within those nations. Feel like MWO has a hard grind now?

Don't forget that it is entirely possible to make a loss. If your team gets ROFLstomped and you use no consumables, you still pay for repairs and ammo which can easily add up to more than your winnings in low to mid tiers. Even with an average win in the upper tiers with basic consumables, you will still make a loss. To make a profit on tier 9-10 with a standard account you need to be winning +50%, use no consumables and no or little gold ammo.

I have never made a loss on a match in MWO. Even using a UAV on a bad stomp.

[RickySpanish]

Man I love it when someone's argument is predicated around "it's not that bad" followed by a comparison with something not even the Canadian Devil would approve of. WoT apparently, is rather bad. I also think that MWO is pretty bad as well, especially since "levelling" a 'Mech is an almighty detriment to your team since it's missing its skill nodes. I have a personal multiplayer game design philosophy that considers any system which must be unlocked to be useful an afront to the sensibilities of any gamer. The fact that you are at a disadvantage vs your peers solely because you haven't played enough, or because you are trying a new 'Mech, is just unbelievably bad. Thus I almost never "level" a 'Mech, I just buy the nodes outright. Bah humbug.

[Felbombling]

RickySpanish, on 20 December 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Thus I almost never "level" a 'Mech, I just buy the nodes outright. Bah humbug.

An option not available to a new player, or most players who do not play excessively. Hey, I don't mind a moderate grind, but having zero grind would feel pretty boring to me. For each their own, I guess, but I actually enjoy the challenge of playing Mechs not fully fleshed out.

[TheBossOfYou]

RickySpanish, on 20 December 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Man I love it when someone's argument is predicated around "it's not that bad" followed by a comparison with something not even the Canadian Devil would approve of. WoT apparently, is rather bad. I also think that MWO is pretty bad as well, especially since "levelling" a 'Mech is an almighty detriment to your team since it's missing its skill nodes. I have a personal multiplayer game design philosophy that considers any system which must be unlocked to be useful an afront to the sensibilities of any gamer. The fact that you are at a disadvantage vs your peers solely because you haven't played enough, or because you are trying a new 'Mech, is just unbelievably bad. Thus I almost never "level" a 'Mech, I just buy the nodes outright. Bah humbug.

While it kinda sucks, most players don't know you're in an unskilled mech unless you tell them. The only nodes I find critical are some degree of radar derp and possibly torso speed(for mechs like the rifleman or the godawful torso twist of a battlemaster) Everything else can be worked around in the mechlab with some minor play differences in game.

Edited by Grimmwold, 21 December 2018 - 12:59 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Glad to see so many people recognizing and appreciating this.

All the salt we may have must be targeted only on things that really deserve it.

[Bud Crue]

Felbombling, on 20 December 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

I have played 480 games over the course of the year with this account, a handful of which were in Trial Mechs, filling in where my current Mech assets could not complete a daily event task. After spending nothing more than the $15.00 or so on the Tournament Supporter Pack, here is what my account looks like.

Mech Assets [How it made it into my account]

Piranha PIR-A [Bought]
Nova NVA-S(C) [Reward]
Hellbringer HBR-Prime [Bought]
Night Gyr NTG-H(C) [Reward]
Orion IIC ON1-IIC [Bought]
SunSpider SNS-VG [Reward]
Blood Asp BAS-A [NGNG Draw] o/
Blood Asp BAS-B [NGNG Draw]
Blood Asp BAS-Prime(S) [NGNG Draw]
Assassin ASN-27 [Bought]
Uziel UZL-3P(C) [Reward]
Rifleman RFC-3C [Bought]
Roughneck RGH-PH [Reward]

*** All thirteen Mechs above are fully spec'd out with 91 skill points. ***

While I think you have illustrated the real generosity that PGI has shown of late with the various events’ rewards and outright giveaways they do, I think your anecdote is not representative of the “grind” that the average new player will experience.

Just looking at your numbers, you fully leveled 13 mechs in 480 games. Put another way: you averaged 1971 XP per match. Other folks have run the numbers (Tarogato, et al.) and compared to the average performance of the player base that’s an amazingly good run for even an average player running premium time. That is incredibly unlikely for a truly new player.

We can all agree I think that PGI over the last year has made acquiring mechs and associated “content” fairly easy, perhaps even to to the point of excessive, but the XP and to a lesser extent the c-bill grind is still very real for most players. Averaging nearly 2K per match for 480 games is just not realistic for the vast majority of folks playing this game let alone the few new folks we manage to get every month.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 December 2018 - 04:24 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Felbombling, on 20 December 2018 - 11:49 PM, said:

An option not available to a new player, or most players who do not play excessively. Hey, I don't mind a moderate grind, but having zero grind would feel pretty boring to me. For each their own, I guess, but I actually enjoy the challenge of playing Mechs not fully fleshed out.

I am an avid fan of the idea of giving players sidegrades instead of upgrades. Players should be able to unlock their first complete 91 point build upon purchase of the 'Mech, with more points being earned in the usual fashion. That way they get a build on par with their opponents immediately, and further play unlocks a greater variety of builds. Of course, I would rather eliminate skill node purchase entirely, and just allow the player to experiment to their heart's content. Zero grind certainly has the potential of being boring, but in my opinion that is a failure of something other than a lack of a skill grind. "Back in my day" single player games had the grind, but multiplayer games (for me it was Doom, Quake, C&C etc) were player for the excitement of fighting another human. I fear game design has moved on from there though, and just like with monetization (though not in MWO's case, to PGI's credit), developers/publishers have found a way to have their cake and eat it too; why have "just" the excitement of fighting your mates when you can have them grind for XP as well?

[TELEFORCE]

MWO's grind really is nothing compared to Wargaming's stuff and War Thunder.

[Asym]

OP, your numbers aren't those of an average player.....sorry.

I left WoTs two weeks in because it was screwed from day one.

I recently joined WoWs in Jan of last year. There is no comparison between MWO and WoWs........in WoWs, you are provided combat ready vessels......here, it take weeks of average play just to skill node a new mech.......weeks !!! A single mech, weeks....

I have the entire Japanese ship line to Tier 10 (less carriers because I'm not a carrier player...) and several "gift or reward" premiums in give-a-ways or events........ I have what 6, 19 point Captains and play ranked all of the time it is available....

The differences are HUGE between these games and WoWs is so much easier to start and progress in. The Grind in MWO is terrible and make no sense at all??? Who would issue soldiers "export versions" for combat systems and then "charge you for upgrading it?" We aren't mercenaries??? We're part of the IS or Clans proper for heavens sake.....

OP. No. MWO is not the worst I've experienced: but, it is a terrible and counter-intuitive process......