184 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

Fair enough, but even then my words still apply. Simply reduce it when you know you're about to lose a side torso, or reconsider the situation in which you would lose it for exposing yourself to the enemy.

That's not really the issue, though. The issue is that the builds are so crippled by the side torso loss (especially the IS ones, which have fewer extra DHS) that losing the side torso is effectively being taken out of the game, ergo it's better to just go all-in and run an XL. That removes the LFE's primary purpose as a middle-solution between the two extremes of durability and weight savings.

IMHO, it's a change that was unnecessary because STD and XL engines were already being used where appropriate to create some really strong 'Mechs. There is nothing to gain by trying to make every engine an equally viable option on every chassis, especially because tonnage, size, and max armor dictate whether your best defensive option is damage evasion or damage mitigation and whether or not you can take weapons bigger than Medium-class lasers to do respectable damage.

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

As I stated, I played 11 matches on the 27th alone, and while I'm not certain of the total amount I played, I participated in every event from October to December as long as it didn't involve newly bought mechs. Meaning I more than likely played at least three dozen matches in November.

Keep a tally, come back after a month and let us know if PGI's match tracking is wrong.

That said, the more games you play the less meaningful any missed games becomes. Eventually you have so many games that the average is trustworthy.

[K O Z A K]

what is that, tier 6? If I shut down so many times anywhere in the game I'd be dead

you weren't chain firing the whole drop, were you? so you were "AlphaWarrior" until you got to near 100% heat and then you chain fire to ride the heat wave, which under the conditions of this patch would very easily end up with you dead. That's what people here aren't happy about, to be effective with a vomit mech you need to bet as hot as possible as much as possible (that means you're outputting damage and not hiding), alpha striking or not. Overall this is an unnecessary change that further hurt playstyle that has received a lot of nerfs lately (of varying effectiveness), and was already in line with other playstyles.

you also seem to have some serious misconceptions about "stats" in relation to jarls, solaris, FP, and other modes. Maybe just stick to photoshopping

[Koniving]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

That's not really the issue, though. The issue is that the builds are so crippled by the side torso loss (especially the IS ones, which have fewer extra DHS) that losing the side torso is effectively being taken out of the game, ergo it's better to just go all-in and run an XL. That removes the LFE's primary purpose as a middle-solution between the two extremes of durability and weight savings.

IMHO, it's a change that was unnecessary because STD and XL engines were already being used where appropriate to create some really strong 'Mechs. There is nothing to gain by trying to make every engine an equally viable option on every chassis, especially because tonnage, size, and max armor dictate whether your best defensive option is damage evasion or damage mitigation and whether or not you can take weapons bigger than Medium-class lasers to do respectable damage.

I personally think that it needs to be adjusted, as the more heatsinks you boat, the lower the threshold for being "okay" gets. Meaning a mech with 22 heatsinks that loses 8 + the engine is gonna suffer a lot more than the guy with 12 DHS that loses 1 DHS + the engine.

Actually took a Warhawk out in a private match with pair of ER PPCs and otherwise boating heatsinks on a cold map and then on a Terra Therma map about two hours ago.
35% heat, no shutdown. 40% no shutdown.
43% heat on a cold map.
Shutdown.
50% on Terra Therma standing in lava, no shutdown.
60% on Terra Therma, shutdown standing in lava. So came narrowing it down.
Tried the lower end first, 53% was not a shutdown but my daughter (2 years old) was acting up and my friend had to go.

So there are a number of factors, and the percentage of threshold you lose as PGI stated is taken from the entire pool including the environment percentages, which I don't think is intended.

It also needs to be adjusted on the percentage that the engine loss itself affects players to account for the change in how ALL heatsink losses have been changed from a percentage of the base 10 to taking away from the total pool (which appears to include environment such as the buff to cooling and threshold by cold maps).

Quote

Keep a tally, come back after a month and let us know if PGI's match tracking is wrong.

That said, the more games you play the less meaningful any missed games becomes. Eventually you have so many games that the average is trustworthy.

I'll start a tally starting from tomorrow. PGI has a bit of a history at showing my stats, as my archived stats actually changes occasionally, currently it says my archived stats are 5,308 / 5,254 kills with a kdr of 1.01 and 4,305 / 3,907 wins/losses. But this isn't what it said back on the 20th as that said my kdr was 0.96.

Of the reward mech challenges in November, I know I only did 3 matches in the Javelin before thinking it was trash and unfun.
I had a NightGyr armed with twin LBX-5s and twin MGs with nothing else, managed to complete the thousand damage challenge. (as you can imagine that alone took a lot of matches, especially since I insisted on chasing mostly lights and nothing else in a sluggish beast because the first Flea I saw said "Meep!" when he got up behind me hoping to get that quick kill with a taunt to boast only to realize I put 50 armor on the back just because after the first time I realized that its sluggish torso twist made keeping lights from behind me difficult. So pretty much ever since I only went after lights.)

And I got my Rifleman's 1,000 damage bonus too.

So assuming the season ended before the 27th, that's more than likely better than ten matches right there.

Hazeclaw, on 31 December 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

you weren't chain firing the whole drop, were you? so you were "AlphaWarrior" until you got to near 100% heat and then you chain fire to ride the heat wave, which under the conditions of this patch would very easily end up with you dead.

If you spent more than 3 seconds reading you'd see I told you to only chain fire when you're about to lose your side torso.
Please pretend you have more memory than a goldfish.

[Koniving]

A quick side note: That was years before tiers even existed in which match making was first come, first serve, everyone in a free for all with a pair of 2 player groups or a 3 player or a 4 player group mixed in on each team of 8 players in every single match.

Meaning it was a lot more hardcore then, than it is now.

It worked because at the time dissipation was slow, heat thresholds didn't get above 70 which right now they're at 60, and I had to do it because I was in a trial mech against another player also participating in the 5 win with trial challenge and a random Jenner pilot.

However victories like that are not as rare one might think, they just aren't as thrilling as they aren't as harrowingly close.

[Y E O N N E]

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

I personally think that it needs to be adjusted, as the more heatsinks you boat, the lower the threshold for being "okay" gets. Meaning a mech with 22 heatsinks that loses 8 + the engine is gonna suffer a lot more than the guy with 12 DHS that loses 1 DHS + the engine.

That's more a function of the weapons you typically carry with 18+ DHS being of the "hot" variety while weapons you carry with only 11 DHS being of the "cold" variety. I'm not going to feel the loss of cooling capacity so much in an AC/5 boat, but I sure as heck will notice it in any laser boat. Even a PIR-3 with frosty ER Micros and cSPL (which is fine with 11 DHS to start) starts being extra toasty when halved, even with only half of its weapons remaining.

Quote

It also needs to be adjusted on the percentage that the engine loss itself affects players to account for the change in how ALL heatsink losses have been changed from a percentage of the base 10 to taking away from the total pool (which appears to include environment such as the buff to cooling and threshold by cold maps).

I don't think it needs to be there at all. What gameplay purpose is being served by having the spike in at all? I have yet to see a concrete justification for this change being necessary.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 31 December 2018 - 11:00 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

If you spent more than 3 seconds reading you'd see I told you to only chain fire when you're about to lose your side torso.
Please pretend you have more memory than a goldfish.

ok...then your point is pointless. You're just describing what people do now to ride the heat wave, which is now problematic with the new mechanic

ngyr with 2xlb5 and 2 mg and 50 back armour chasing lights.......do you hammer nails with a screwdriver and put in screws with a measuring tape?....forget it, you do you

[Spheroid]

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

If you must continue, use the "I must be under 85%" mentality when you know the ST is about to blow.

How exactly does a medium know when its going to get its torso shot off? Even something as beefy as a Black Lanner with full survival tree will lose a side torso from dual heavy gauss if shot from the rear/rear side.

Large pinpoint alpha is hardly rare. Look at something like the Viper. If you fail to push the heat envelope you are not helping your team to any meaningful degree.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 31 December 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

Even something as beefy as a Black Lanner with full survival tree will lose a side torso from dual heavy gauss if shot from the rear/rear side.

The Black Lanner is one of the more fragile mediums, not one of the beefy ones. Just a nitpick.

[Grus]

Luminis, on 31 December 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

Y'know, you're telling a player who's literally twice as good as you are how to pay the game.

I know I shouldn't be doing this and I'm kinda sorry for statshaming (without explicitly listing anyone's stats), but telling a 1%er (Hazeclaw, not me) how to play the goddamn game when you evidently ain't doing a good job yourself? That's just not a good show and even 21k posts on these boards change that.

I don't care what you think you know, I don't care how good you think you are, I don't care what excuses you got as to why the game makes you look worse than you are. "You aren't supposed to do this, you aren't supposed to do that" - I'm sorry man, but how the hell did you convince yourself to be in a position to tell others what they are and ate not supposed to do?!

Again, I'm sorry if I'm hurting your feelings (or anyone elses, for that matter), but this kinda behaviour gets me riled up.

Hazelclaw loves to be told what to do, and where to stick/point it... its called communication lol

[K O Z A K]

Grus, on 31 December 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

Hazelclaw loves to be told what to do, and where to stick/point it... its called communication lol

quiet Grlus, or I'll wake razen up

[GweNTLeR]

Just wanna say that IMO right now there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to focus CT first on 95% of mechs (with the exception of some std mechs). If the enemy is XL- he dies from side torso destruction. If the enemy is LFE or cXL he is likely to die in a few seconds after. And using a coolshot is not really an excuse - it requires 3! Goddamn seconds to fully cool those 18 points. You might also add a second of delay between your side torso is destroyed and you press a coolshot button. And since most STD mechs use it only because of HG (except just a few builds) you might also prefer to destroy it first, because of damage transfer stuff.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 31 December 2018 - 12:43 PM.

[Grus]

Hazeclaw, on 31 December 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

quiet Grlus, or I'll wake razen up

Wake him up, sick of only shooting the same people. Havent shot at bcmc in a while.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

That's not really the issue, though. The issue is that the builds are so crippled by the side torso loss (especially the IS ones, which have fewer extra DHS) that losing the side torso is effectively being taken out of the game, ergo it's better to just go all-in and run an XL. That removes the LFE's primary purpose as a middle-solution between the two extremes of durability and weight savings.

LFE is still fine on ballistic builds. PGI just needs to get their heads out of their bums and buff it in other ways, cause right now it is still a strictly inferior CXL.

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

I don't think it needs to be there at all. What gameplay purpose is being served by having the spike in at all? I have yet to see a concrete justification for this change being necessary.

Dunno if PGI intended it but the heat spike change had helped to tone down the best engine of the game--CXL. Which I approve. Too bad IS LFE was dragged along with it.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 December 2018 - 01:15 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Grus, on 31 December 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

Wake him up, sick of only shooting the same people. Havent shot at bcmc in a while.

you probably have, we're just stealthy these days

[Grus]

Hazeclaw, on 31 December 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

you probably have, we're just stealthy these days

Oh yeah, hows the merger with cobra going?

[Apache1990]

Koniving, on 31 December 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Meaning that according to stats, I had such skill as to get a 0.67 kdr against 12 mechs per match while on foot.
This also implies I somehow managed to to kill 6.7 enemies. 6.7, how the hell do you kill 6.7 enemies?
Either they're dead or they're not.

K/D is kills per death, not per match. 0.67 would mean on average you were destroyed 3 times per 2 mechs you destroyed.

[Spheroid]

FupDup, on 31 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

The Black Lanner is one of the more fragile mediums, not one of the beefy ones. Just a nitpick.

Yeah overall that is true. I used the Lanner as an example because it is the heaviest Clan mech with an XL and structure quirks. Would you have rather used the quirkless Vapor Eagle as a side torso loss example? I used Lanner for its higher structure hp to show how heavy a mech you could have and still be crippled in one shot. Insert your desired example medium.

Edited by Spheroid, 31 December 2018 - 02:49 PM.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 31 December 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yeah overall that is true. I used the Lanner as an example because it is the heaviest Clan mech with an XL and structure quirks. Would you have rather used the quirkless Vapor Eagle as a side torso loss example? I used Lanner for its higher structure hp to show how heavy a mech you would have and still be crippled in one shot.

Honestly the Vaping Eagle probably is more durable because of its body shape, despite the lower HP values on-paper. Those structure quirks are pretty minuscule anyways.

[NRP]

LOL @ the Vaping Beagle!

[Tarl Cabot]

Why are players say they should run isXL instead of LFE, seriously? For most builds it rarely has to do with adding more weapons, hai? It is a speed increase, dropping slot restrictive Endo to free up slots for a few extra DHS. And PGI are still being ***** about normalizing the engines when damaged.

But are there any video of a mech shutting down when it was NOT riding that 100% mark?