75 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

NRP, on 31 December 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

Yeah I just got the Vapor eagle basic pack. The mech's mobility is like a breath of fresh air. It actually feels good to pilot it. And I can create a mini Jade Kite build on one variant (5 UAC2s), which is just ridiculous.

I wish the IS had something similar.

You can use the Dragon-5N.

[RickySpanish]

At the risk of highjacking the thread, could you guys post a couple suggestions on QP builds for the VGL then? I've tried a few of the more obvious ones and each time the 'Mech falls short for me. It's a rather large 'Mech and is easy to hit, the arms especially so. I saw lots of VGLs at launch, so plenty of people did buy them. Now I see almost none. If it's such a viable 'Mech, and it was popular, why has every pilot parked it back in its garage?

Edited by RickySpanish, 31 December 2018 - 10:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Wut, I see VGLs in almost every match. Usually boating ATMs (either in 24+9 or 36 configuration).

[NRP]

Don't put weapons in the VGL's arms. It has so many torso mounts (and such awesome mobility) that you don't need to.

2 UAC10/ERPPC
Gauss/2 HLL/ERML
Boat UACs
Boat ERPPCs or lasers
I think one of the reinforcement variants can do LB20x and 4 SRM6 (I don't own the reinforcements)

Anyway, this thing is ridiculous.

[Tarogato]

RickySpanish, on 31 December 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

At the risk of highjacking the thread, could you guys post a couple suggestions on QP builds for the VGL then? I've tried a few of the more obvious ones and each time the 'Mech falls short for me. It's a rather large 'Mech and is easy to hit, the arms especially so. I saw lots of VGLs at launch, so plenty of people did buy them. Now I see almost none. If it's such a viable 'Mech, and it was popular, why has every pilot parked it back in its garage?

Remember you can open these in MechDB, click the "SAVE AND SHARE" and it will provide the BuildCode so you can import straight to MWO.

Variant	Build	Loadout	Engine	Link
VGL-1	ATMs	2x cATM12 4x cERSL	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#2f5e9391_VGL-1
VGL-1	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#670381d0_VGL-1
VGL-1	Gaussvomit	2x cGauss + 3x cERML	XL255	https://mech.nav-alp...#b6a7346f_VGL-1
VGL-1	Dakka	4x cUAC2	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#3f474cac_VGL-1
VGL-2	Dakka	5x cUAC2	XL210	https://mech.nav-alp...#8f3b7d55_VGL-2
VGL-2	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#2bd55a12_VGL-2
VGL-3	ATMs	3x cATM9 3x cERSL	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#b985f846_VGL-3
VGL-3	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#83564491_VGL-3
VGL-4	Laser Vomit	2x cERLL 5x cERML	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#c9a9a042_VGL-4
VGL-4	Laser Brawl	6x cMPL	XL305	https://mech.nav-alp...#ac76a5aa_VGL-4
VGL-4	Laser Skirmish	7x cHML	XL335	https://mech.nav-alp...#13133ead_VGL-4
VGL-A	Brawl	4x cSRM6a 1x cLB20X	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#45d7469b_VGL-A
VGL-A	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#11c68bc9_VGL-A
VGL-A	ATMs	3x cATM9 2x cERML	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#0374cd3e_VGL-A
VGL-RI	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...67d18c2e_VGL-RI

I don't have it on here, but you can also do 4x cERPPC 19DHS. Mini-warhawk, gets about two alphas before overheat. And gauss+2xPPC is an option as well.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 31 December 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

RickySpanish, on 31 December 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Hmm I must say the Vapor Eagle ranks rather highly given how often *cough* I see it played in QP. Is it some sort of FP dark horse? The chassis basically just blows chunks.

It is a good mech. Most people simply don't own it yet. If you see the Comp vs. Casual comparison, higher skilled players (especially Comp and FP Invasion ones) rated it better. Above average hitboxes, above average firepower, battlemech chassis + Clan tech, optimum tonnage for a medium class, JJs, good selection of engine ratings...

Just curious though, is it rare because of the mass exodus of people actually willing to pay for the game?

[Vxheous]

RickySpanish, on 31 December 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

At the risk of highjacking the thread, could you guys post a couple suggestions on QP builds for the VGL then? I've tried a few of the more obvious ones and each time the 'Mech falls short for me. It's a rather large 'Mech and is easy to hit, the arms especially so. I saw lots of VGLs at launch, so plenty of people did buy them. Now I see almost none. If it's such a viable 'Mech, and it was popular, why has every pilot parked it back in its garage?

The thing with VGL's is that the thing that makes them so powerful is also their biggest weakness when it comes to unskilled players. It's a 55 Ton mech that can boat the firepower equivalent to mechs that are typically 70-90 tons. Downside to being able to pack such firepower is that you end up moving slow (like 60-75 kph depending on build) so it relies on being well positioned to dish out massive amounts of damage (much like playing slow heavies and assaults). Your typical mwo player is going to struggle with a mech that has medium armor but moves like a slow heavy or assault, so they end up running larger engines but then they might as well run mechs like a Hunchback IIc or a Huntsman, since the VGL is a much taller/skinnier mech.

You have to think of the VGL like how the Night Gyr was when first released. In the hands of a good player, the Night Gyr wrecked face, but the average player would find that mech unwieldy and slow.

Edited by Vxheous, 01 January 2019 - 12:13 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Tarogato, on 31 December 2018 - 11:42 PM, said:

Remember you can open these in MechDB, click the "SAVE AND SHARE" and it will provide the BuildCode so you can import straight to MWO.

Variant	Build	Loadout	Engine	Link
VGL-1	ATMs	2x cATM12 4x cERSL	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#2f5e9391_VGL-1
VGL-1	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#670381d0_VGL-1
VGL-1	Gaussvomit	2x cGauss + 3x cERML	XL255	https://mech.nav-alp...#b6a7346f_VGL-1
VGL-1	Dakka	4x cUAC2	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#3f474cac_VGL-1
VGL-2	Dakka	5x cUAC2	XL210	https://mech.nav-alp...#8f3b7d55_VGL-2
VGL-2	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#2bd55a12_VGL-2
VGL-3	ATMs	3x cATM9 3x cERSL	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#b985f846_VGL-3
VGL-3	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#83564491_VGL-3
VGL-4	Laser Vomit	2x cERLL 5x cERML	XL300	https://mech.nav-alp...#c9a9a042_VGL-4
VGL-4	Laser Brawl	6x cMPL	XL305	https://mech.nav-alp...#ac76a5aa_VGL-4
VGL-4	Laser Skirmish	7x cHML	XL335	https://mech.nav-alp...#13133ead_VGL-4
VGL-A	Brawl	4x cSRM6a 1x cLB20X	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#45d7469b_VGL-A
VGL-A	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#11c68bc9_VGL-A
VGL-A	ATMs	3x cATM9 2x cERML	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...#0374cd3e_VGL-A
VGL-RI	Poptart	2x cERPPC	XL280	https://mech.nav-alp...67d18c2e_VGL-RI

I don't have it on here, but you can also do 4x cERPPC 19DHS. Mini-warhawk, gets about two alphas before overheat. And gauss+2xPPC is an option as well.

So here's the thing, those builds look great on paper but in practice the shape of the 'Mech sabotages them.

The PPCs are all better boated in a Huntsman with its twin shoulder level mounts. The Rival is pointless - it has an unworkable hardpoint layout and the only reason you would gimp yourself vs other variants or just an entirely different chassis is for masc... But that's meh on a 'Mech so large. All of the VGL 4 variants will be obliterated when their arms fall off, which happens all of the time. This leaves some of the niche variants, like the UAC10/PPC build which at least manages to line its weapons up high, but has heat problems. The brawler is entertaining, but again the sheer size of the VGL sabotages its chances at spreading damage at close range. The arms are going to come off easily. The gauss vomit build I already ran a version of (heavy medium lasers), which is probably my favourite, and is the definition of a glass cannon. Finally, the VGL *does* seem rather good at boating ATMs. I will try that for now, simply because I bought these things so I may as well use them.

I wish the shape of the 'Mech wasn't such a disaster. The combination of big arms and height while lacking twin shoulder level energy/ballistics hardpoints is atrocious.

[OmniFail]

Vxheous, on 01 January 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

The thing with VGL's is that the thing that makes them so powerful is also their biggest weakness when it comes to unskilled players. It's a 55 Ton mech that can boat the firepower equivalent to mechs that are typically 70-90 tons. Downside to being able to pack such firepower is that you end up moving slow (like 60-75 kph depending on build) so it relies on being well positioned to dish out massive amounts of damage (much like playing slow heavies and assaults). Your typical mwo player is going to struggle with a mech that has medium armor but moves like a slow heavy or assault, so they end up running larger engines but then they might as well run mechs like a Hunchback IIc or a Huntsman, since the VGL is a much taller/skinnier mech.

You have to think of the VGL like how the Night Gyr was when first released. In the hands of a good player, the Night Gyr wrecked face, but the average player would find that mech unwieldy and slow.

Under rated post. This is true of so many mechs a d weapon systems

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Vxheous, on 01 January 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

they might as well run mechs like a Hunchback IIc or a Huntsman

[Jman5]

The Firestarter always does so poorly in these surveys, but I think it's quite good. Better than a crummy ole Raven.

[El Bandito]

RickySpanish, on 01 January 2019 - 02:33 AM, said:

So here's the thing, those builds look great on paper but in practice the shape of the 'Mech sabotages them.

The PPCs are all better boated in a Huntsman with its twin shoulder level mounts. The Rival is pointless - it has an unworkable hardpoint layout and the only reason you would gimp yourself vs other variants or just an entirely different chassis is for masc... But that's meh on a 'Mech so large. All of the VGL 4 variants will be obliterated when their arms fall off, which happens all of the time. This leaves some of the niche variants, like the UAC10/PPC build which at least manages to line its weapons up high, but has heat problems. The brawler is entertaining, but again the sheer size of the VGL sabotages its chances at spreading damage at close range. The arms are going to come off easily. The gauss vomit build I already ran a version of (heavy medium lasers), which is probably my favourite, and is the definition of a glass cannon. Finally, the VGL *does* seem rather good at boating ATMs. I will try that for now, simply because I bought these things so I may as well use them.

I wish the shape of the 'Mech wasn't such a disaster. The combination of big arms and height while lacking twin shoulder level energy/ballistics hardpoints is atrocious.

Use JJs. I suggest at least 4.

[cougurt]

Jman5, on 01 January 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:

The Firestarter always does so poorly in these surveys, but I think it's quite good. Better than a crummy ole Raven.

the issue i see with the firestarter is that there's little reason to use it over the wolfhound. JJs are nice and all, but not enough to make up for its otherwise poor agility, horrendous torso pitch, and lack of armor quirks. if we were taking all variants into consideration then i would agree that the raven is a worse chassis overall, but the 3L's strength as a NARCer puts it slightly above the firestarter for me.

[Jman5]

cougurt, on 03 January 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

the issue i see with the firestarter is that there's little reason to use it over the wolfhound. JJs are nice and all, but not enough to make up for its otherwise poor agility, horrendous torso pitch, and lack of armor quirks. if we were taking all variants into consideration then i would agree that the raven is a worse chassis overall, but the 3L's strength as a NARCer puts it slightly above the firestarter for me.

To be clear I ranked the wolfhound over the firestarter. I just don't think it's significantly worse to be ranked as the 4th worst light mech in the game. I think you can get similar performance. I won't deny that armor quirks are usually better than structure quirks (unless you're getting backshotted), but the firestarter has a greater total hitpoint boost and when you plug it in the survival tree skills it comes out to about +54 hp advantage. More than the Urban mech which is ranked as the 3rd best light in the game.

The way I see it just being a 35 tonner counts for something. It means you have more hitpoints and more tonnage to fit more weapons. Add its Jumpjets, 8 hardpoints, and fantastic structure quirks, I ranked it worse than the wolfhound and Piranha but around the same as the arctic cheetah.

Its agility, lack of ECM, and IS XL are what I see as the 3 big detractors for the firestarter, but its acceleration and turnrate are on par with a handful of other 35 tonners, and not that far behind a number of other 30 and 35ers.

I gave a point to niche mechs like the raven and spider 5v, but I didn't think it carried their rank that far.

Anyway, I think it's still a fun and powerful mech if you can get used to the slower accel/decel. The turnspeed just means you can't easily do what a few of the other lights can do in terms of backstabbing. I basically just play it like a small medium. It's got the hitpoints to be one.

By the way, well done last season on the light leaderboard. I ignore the scores from people who don't play enough matches to get a solid average, so in my mind you were #1.

Edited by Jman5, 03 January 2019 - 08:31 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Well the urban does spread damage well and is kind of small, while the Firestarter is wide but shallow in depth.

[cougurt]

Jman5, on 03 January 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

To be clear I ranked the wolfhound over the firestarter. I just don't think it's significantly worse to be ranked as the 4th worst light mech in the game. I think you can get similar performance. I won't deny that armor quirks are usually better than structure quirks (unless you're getting backshotted), but the firestarter has a greater total hitpoint boost and when you plug it in the survival tree skills it comes out to about +54 hp advantage. More than the Urban mech which is ranked as the 3rd best light in the game.

The way I see it just being a 35 tonner counts for something. It means you have more hitpoints and more tonnage to fit more weapons. Add its Jumpjets, 8 hardpoints, and fantastic structure quirks, I ranked it worse than the wolfhound and Piranha but around the same as the arctic cheetah.

It's agility, lack of ECM, and IS XL are what I see as the 3 big detractors for the firestarter, but its acceleration and turnrate are on par with a handful of other 35 tonners, and not that far behind a number of other 30 and 35ers.

I gave a point to niche mechs like the raven and spider 5v, but I didn't think it carried their rank that far.

Anyway, I think it's still a fun and powerful mech if you can get used to the slower accel/decel. The turnspeed just means you can't easily do what a few of the other lights can do in terms of backstabbing. I basically just play it like a small medium. It's got the hitpoints to be one.

it's probably not fair to rank it among the worst lights in the game, but the fact that it's essentially a worse wolfhound makes it hard for me to decide where it sits. i suppose i value some of the other mechs more simply because they fill a niche, even if they may not necessarily be as strong.

the firestarter may have more total HP than the wolfhound, but i find them much easier to kill regardless. maybe it comes down to crits, maybe it's partly a perception thing, but whatever it is they just aren't as threatening.

Jman5, on 03 January 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

By the way well done last season on the light leaderboard. I ignore the scores from people who don't play enough matches to get a solid average, so in my mind you were #1.

thank you. i don't really put much stake in match score alone (at least beyond a certain point), but i appreciate it nonetheless. you did quite well yourself.