66 replies to this topic

[Luminis]

Peter2k, on 31 December 2018 - 05:35 AM, said:

While that is true, all PGI has sold us over the years is nostalgia.

I'm not sure they want to burn even more bridges by being overly stingy.
Especially if they can just ask for a fee, somehow that would fit the M-O

Burning bridges or not, I believe that MWO's business model is gonna back them into a corner sooner or later. There's still Mechs people request, so there's still MechPacks to be sold, but revenue stream is gonna dry up, sooner or later. We're already getting redundant chassis left, right and centre.

I have a hard time believing that PGI's gonna successfully switch monetisation schemes. That's why I believe they'll either try to get away with making us start fresh or straight up stick to pay2play games.

[Kingfucius]

Luminis, on 31 December 2018 - 03:21 AM, said:

"Games as a service". The concept that a game is a service, not a product, eliminates these legal issues. Back when we bought games in stores on an actual data medium, it was hard for publishers to argue that these games were services rather than products.

A service (in this case, access to the game) can eventually be terminated, making all the money you spent nothing more than a fart in the wind. You've got zero rights to the game you paid for, including the right to resell it or demand access to it after the provider sees fit to discontinue the "service".

I find this strange.

[Peter2k]

Kingfucius, on 31 December 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

I find this strange.

Really?

How about World of Warcraft?

Its a decade old, what would happen to all the money/content people own when the serves do get shut down?

Shrugs, what do you think happens to games you have as a disc but need a server to authenticate?
Not every game gets a no CD patch from its publisher, and GOG will not offer a discount if you own the original from 10 years ago.


Games are not save in a way that players might want to be, GTA San Andreas got a patch to remove the songs from the radio stations since the license for the songs expired, so everyone who bought it and has it on Steam is out of luck, sorta.

Just a few examples, and I haven't mentioned the loads of f2p games on the market.

Edited by Peter2k, 31 December 2018 - 12:26 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

PGI have not Cryengine cracks thats can doing this ...many Experts (like karl berg thats was the Crycrack by PGI) going 2014/15 with the Transverse Disaster and PGI not found Guys with the same experience ...so was logical to search new Guys for UE4 and MW5..for cracks in Cryengine is only a Fulltime Work of 5 Months to cionverted from Cry 3 to Cry 5..so nothing further basic work to MWO ...only cosmetics and little bugfixing.

And bring MWO to UE4 is like to make a New game from the ground ...

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 January 2019 - 11:21 AM.

[JediPanther]

Mwo version 2 whatever its called will have to be done on a more modern engine. I hope pgi is worried about M$ with the licence renewal. This time pgi can't claim to be waiting on a licence renewal with their 90 days soon bs. M$ and the player base wants results now. Especially since pgi is already a YEAR late with mw5.

[Imperius]

Too late now

[The6thMessenger]

Kingfucius, on 31 December 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

So they sell stuff to people and say:"Hey, we sell you stuff but we cannot guarantee that you may keep it". That's a strange business model. I wonder wether that' s legal. I already begin feeling stupid I bought some mechs.

That's pretty much every online game, once they shut down everything you "own" comes with them. I think of it as video-games are ultimately sold an experience.

Legal =/= to good, Illegal =/= to bad, it's just where the government draws the line, and when the government is evil -- well, we have North Korea. Hell, even Capitalism has it's pitfalls, look no further than USA's atrocious healthcare.

[MrVaad]

I think upgrading the engine would cost too much. Going CryEngine V or Unreal 4 would probably be like writing a new game. Lumberyard could be easier as I think it is closer to CryEngine 3 (from reading the code).
But really, any engine upgrade is not realistic.

Improving the worst textures and fixing the maps could be the most cost/effective solution as many performance problems come from those (like lowering the crazy amount of grass in solaris, fixing some particles effects in arctic maps, adding occlusion panels in river city ?)

Edited by MrVaad, 02 January 2019 - 03:08 AM.

[w4ldO]

finish MW5
use core engine as new MWO engine
re-create assets in new engine
bugfix
rollout

it's not rocket surgery

[Sjorpha]

Before I answer I'd like to know what happens to our accounts and the content we paid for after an engine switch.

Some people say they're fine with starting from 0 after an engine upgrade, well not me. I wouldn't want to do all that grind again, no way.

The thing is that your relation to a game changes over time, the grind was tolerable for me as a new player because the game was new and novel to me, I could find joy in the incremental progress, discovering a new mech or weight class and so on.

It's different now, I've done all of that and leveling mechs is no longer enjoyable to me. What I'm looking for now is to play with my unit or a good group and face other decent units/groups, and to try and beat my own performance and explore the metagame.

Buying new mechs at this point is interesting to the extent they offer new potential best choices for a given role or open up a new build that can't be done (or done as well) on other mechs. After purchase I use GSP or GXP + cbills to instantly master and build the build I want and go play it. The window for being excited enough about a mech to try it's stock loadout or level it through playing has gradually shrunk to 0. I don't think I'm alone.

There is no going back, and I think that's true for a lot of players. If they want the veterans to follow over to a new engine en masse and continue spending money I think they'll have to understand that those veterans need to be able to continue where they left. And I do believe this would be the smartest move for them as well, I'm more invested in the game now, I'm willing to spend money to skip the grind and get new mechs and so on. I'm invested precisely because i already have so much. If they take it away they also take away my sense of investment in the game and my trust in their business model forever. I understand the "game as a service" concept and I don't regret my time in MWO even if my account gets terminated, I wouldn't be angry about it, but I wouldn't start again either.

That's not to say a switch with zeroed accounts couldn't be successful, it might be with good enough marketing and enough new players, and lots of old players would probably follow along too. I wouldn't be one of them though.

Edited by Sjorpha, 02 January 2019 - 05:29 AM.

[w4ldO]

i wouldn't worry about your mechs getting lost

it is one thing to piss off a paying customer
it is another thing to piss off 10 paying customers for 12 consecutive months

it is a complete different thing to piss off your entire customer base all at once while also pissing off your staff who will have to deal with such a situation

[Asym]

For those of you whom are "collectors"..........well, the future doesn't look bright as to your "investments..."

Imagine the effort it will take to transfer the animation and then, reconfigure the game mechanics to make that animation work in a new engine..... the variations are so extreme, because of the Skill Tree alone, that the "translation" could take years not months and there is no guarantee any of that effort could or would work....

Nope, not gonna happen. If, PGI decides even to "keep" MWO, it will be as a side project with very little change..... Too expensive, to lengthy and way, way beyond their capabilities technically. The single player game must make a huge amount of money or else, the entire franchise is in peril...... Enjoy it while you can; and, for heavens sake, stop spending real money on a game slowly receding into obscurity or into the WYSIWYG of nostalgic games that are still active.......

[El Bandito]

Kingfucius, on 31 December 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

So they sell stuff to people and say:"Hey, we sell you stuff but we cannot guarantee that you may keep it". That's a strange business model. I wonder wether that' s legal. I already begin feeling stupid I bought some mechs.

It is not illegal. It is all in MWO's Terms of Service, if you bothered to read it at all. PGI can legally take away all the toys away from any account without legal consequences. Everyone who is playing the game agreed to it when they signed in.

Again, digital goods are NOT meant to be permanent. If Steam shuts down suddenly, you can't DL, or play those games through Steam online anymore, and that's completely legal. Which means my $1000 library will go up into smoke and I can't sue Steam in anyway.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 January 2019 - 05:29 PM.

[Wolfy36]

I've put a few pennies into this game, but honestly, I think a fresh start with MWO2 and give some type of reward/bonus for a player's activity on the first game. Maybe something like a few bonus mechs/c-bills/xp boost to keep some of the older players interested. I'd also be down for them to do a founders type pack again, it was a really cool idea at the time and still think it's a valid option.

There are too make back end problems to really patch this game up to where we want it to be, I'd rather them get MW5 out, let us enjoy that for a while, stop working on MWO besides maybe a skeleton crew to keep the lights on, and move on to MWO2.

That would most likely avoid any legal problems from switching engines as it would be a new game and they can rebrand it whatever way they need to in order to avoid any legal issues. Get the license renewal from Microsoft, use/hire more UE friendly developers/programmers and get the ball rolling.

This way people still have MWO to play, will have MW5 to play, and then would also have the knowledge that they are getting something more with a new re-branded and upgraded version on the way in however long it takes.

It's getting harder and harder to convince people to stick around and they are looking for some reason to stay. I'd say 6 years was a pretty good run, but by this time next year, MWO is and will likely be a ghost town.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

use/hire more UE friendly developers/programmers and get the ball rolling.

that's Was the biggest problem since 2015 for PGI... Find people with experience that's will work for PGI to fill all the holes from good guys that's leaves or switch to other company's ...short before the start of MW5 it's gave many jobs by PGI for folks with cryengine experience... Now PGI switched to search more guys with UE experience..PGIs reputation not good after the transverse disaster and the way of MWO... And that's not only by the customers.And MW5 not really looks to the great new way and susessfull games Star... Many gaming magazine says... Looks good.. OK.. Who the AI and the true Story?
In times of fallout 76, red dead redemption online and battlefront "2" the looks good factor not more longer really important.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 02 January 2019 - 02:53 PM.

[El Bandito]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 02 January 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

In times of fallout 76, red dead redemption online and battlefront "2" the looks good factor not more longer really important.

FO76 looks like crap.

Really hoping The Outer Worlds will blow the Fallout series outta the water.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Asym, on 02 January 2019 - 06:34 AM, said:

For those of you whom are "collectors"..........well, the future doesn't look bright as to your "investments..."

Imagine the effort it will take to transfer the animation and then, reconfigure the game mechanics to make that animation work in a new engine..... the variations are so extreme, because of the Skill Tree alone, that the "translation" could take years not months and there is no guarantee any of that effort could or would work....

Nope, not gonna happen. If, PGI decides even to "keep" MWO, it will be as a side project with very little change..... Too expensive, to lengthy and way, way beyond their capabilities technically. The single player game must make a huge amount of money or else, the entire franchise is in peril...... Enjoy it while you can; and, for heavens sake, stop spending real money on a game slowly receding into obscurity or into the WYSIWYG of nostalgic games that are still active.......

What on earth are you talking about? Half of the mechs in MWO will likely show up in MW5, so that's half the work already done as far as an MWO sequel is concerned. And it's not like PGI deleted the original art assets after putting them in MWO. Even then, they could extract them from MWO's files, like people are already doing to play with in Blender.



And I'm curious to hear your reasoning as to how the Skill Tree will impact any of this.

[LordNothing]

Timuroslav, on 31 December 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

I want to see at least 6 new maps for quick play before jumping development into cryostasis. Mechs are great for short spike in the population, but they peter out pretty quick too. More maps and map variety adds to the game. We need a lot less cold maps. More neutral and other maps. That will keep interest in the game more than anything.
Assymetrical maps with routinely move spawns would help too.

Too many maps are bowl shaped, which causes nascaring in pugs.
Damn the Haters maps maps maps, before going to Unreal.

ideas for maps:
Launch pad
Refinery,
Swamp,
Tank Armory
Oasis (I wanna laser ostriches),
Burnt moon under a red star
River Delta (think the Nile)
Mountain plateau (think Switzerland)
Tundra dock yards

etc.

would be significantly easier to make new maps on unreal. since you would have access to whatever quasi-procedural terrain generation code mw5 will be using.

[Peter2k]

MrVaad, on 02 January 2019 - 03:05 AM, said:

I think upgrading the engine would cost too much. Going CryEngine V or Unreal 4 would probably be like writing a new game. Lumberyard could be easier as I think it is closer to CryEngine 3 (from reading the code).
But really, any engine upgrade is not realistic.

For god's sake I hope not

They already are using Unreal, that's where everyone but Chris and Paul are

So you got basically the whole staff working with Unreal, and then return to CryEngine?
While doing some DLC's in Unreal again?

Also judging from some tweets and some talk from Russ on stage at the RTX event it seems they are happy using Unrel.
Russ even said the only reason why they picked CryEngine was of cost, gotta remember that Unreal wasn't free back then

Also a big thing to remember for a smallish studio is how big the cut of the store is where they sell, like Steam.
The Epic store does not only offer a bigger slice for the dev, but also waives the royalties when using Unreal.
That's a lot of dough left on the table otherwise.

Gonna be telling which way they go

Edited by Peter2k, 03 January 2019 - 11:22 AM.

[Stinger554]

Kaeb Odellas, on 02 January 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

And I'm curious to hear your reasoning as to how the Skill Tree will impact any of this.

Just so you know Asym makes zero sense 90% of the time so for the most part it's better to just ignore him.

w4ldO, on 02 January 2019 - 05:36 AM, said:

i wouldn't worry about your mechs getting lost

it is one thing to piss off a paying customer
it is another thing to piss off 10 paying customers for 12 consecutive months

it is a complete different thing to piss off your entire customer base all at once while also pissing off your staff who will have to deal with such a situation

Ah but you forget this is PGI so it is a legitimate concern that they won't actually give you mech packs(or an equivalent) that you've payed for already.