66 replies to this topic

[Peter2k]

Stinger554, on 03 January 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ah but you forget this is PGI so it is a legitimate concern that they won't actually give you mech packs(or an equivalent) that you've payed for already.

Well Russ was already tweeting to someone (think 2017 MechCon) that they can't give out free copies for customers of MWO, no matter how much invested.
So I'd think they would try to monetize getting you're inventory into a new MWO.

[Peter2k]

Asym, on 02 January 2019 - 06:34 AM, said:

For those of you whom are "collectors"..........well, the future doesn't look bright as to your "investments..."

Imagine the effort it will take to transfer the animation and then, reconfigure the game mechanics to make that animation work in a new engine..... the variations are so extreme, because of the Skill Tree alone, that the "translation" could take years not months and there is no guarantee any of that effort could or would work....

......

That does really look like a strange argument

They already have working Mechs in MW5, with animation, the same we have now.
You think they started over from scratch?
I'm not saying we would get our inventory, but I highly doubt any modeler discarding his high poly model just like that.

Also the timeline from MW5 stops at 3049, what happens at 3049 that could be potentially be sold to players? As a DLC maybe?
You really think they start at scratch with all the clan mech models for some DLC?

Of all the reasons why players might not get the old inventory you sure picked a strange one.
Now a monetary reason, selling them again, I can see that, and others.

Hell if they would make a Clan DLC for MW5 then you already got 80% of MWO existing already, all that would be left is some team deathmatch mode with some maps that have a big central feature and you would feel right back at home
To make players not miss FP all they need to do is add a mode with 4 respawns and all of a sudden you have the same depth as we have now in MWO, shallow, but same

Edited by Peter2k, 03 January 2019 - 11:51 AM.

[Stinger554]

Peter2k, on 03 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Well Russ was already tweeting to someone (think 2017 MechCon) that they can't give out free copies for customers of MWO, no matter how much invested.
So I'd think they would try to monetize getting you're inventory into a new MWO.

Well in MW5's case it is an entirely separate experience and anyone who expected to get that game free of charge was not being intelligent.

In the case of upgrading the game engine or porting the game to a new engine since it is the same experience, and essentially the same game, I would expect my purchases to show up there at some point if it's not immediate without having to repurchase them.

If they want me to pay some BS fee to get all my mechs I'll consider it; but that's likely going to be a no f*** off situation.

[Peter2k]

Stinger554, on 03 January 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they want me to pay some BS fee to get all my mechs I'll consider it; but that's likely going to be a no f*** off situation.

BS charge, I name thee MechXP to GXP conversion, or something

I'm just saying I can see them wanting money for it, at least so they can say they have a "solution" for PokeMech players

[Valdarion Silarius]

There are still a few mechs I would like to see released in MW:O before PGI closes the curtain for good. I think they should have one final patch that buffs everything, so at least we could have some enjoyment with the game offline against bots or whatever. If PGI decides to cut the servers after MW5, then perhaps the game should switch to p2p connections (even though I'm not sure how that would pan out, since most of the peer 2 peer games ive played have been riddled with problems). It would be half decent if they released the source code, or some kind of way to let people mod the game after they officially announce no more support for MW:O.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 03 January 2019 - 12:53 PM.

[El Bandito]

Stinger554, on 03 January 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well in MW5's case it is an entirely separate experience and anyone who expected to get that game free of charge was not being intelligent.

In the case of upgrading the game engine or porting the game to a new engine since it is the same experience, and essentially the same game, I would expect my purchases to show up there at some point if it's not immediate without having to repurchase them.

If they want me to pay some BS fee to get all my mechs I'll consider it; but that's likely going to be a no f*** off situation.

That's not a good argument. Games like Killing Floor 2 has essentially the same mechanics as their predecessors yet they don't give you all the things you had in the previous games.

IMO, as long as MWO on Unreal offers noticeable improvement in performance, quality, and experience compared to current one, I wouldn't mind starting from scratch even if the core concept is still to shoot stompy robots. With the bar current MWO has set, that is not very hard to achieve.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 January 2019 - 02:30 PM.

[Stinger554]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

That's not a good argument. Games like Killing Floor 2 has essentially the same mechanics as their predecessors yet they don't give you all the things you had in the previous games.

IMO, as long as MWO on Unreal offers noticeable improvement in performance, quality, and experience compared to current one, I wouldn't mind starting from scratch even if the core concept is still to shoot stompy robots. With the bar current MWO has set, that is not very hard to achieve.

Last I checked with Killing floor (the original) I could still play the game and access any of the extras I purchased, so there is no need for it to be given to me in Killing Floor 2.

Somehow(there are several reasons that I shouldn't have to list) I don't think PGI would leave MWO on Cryengine up and running if they did move it over to a new engine. Ergo I would loose access to what I paid to get access to and while I'm aware PGI can basically revoke my access for just about any reason they want to; to do so would not be doing themselves any favors and I would not bother playing the newer version of MWO if they didn't at least provided some form of equivalent compensation if I don't get the mech packs and hero mechs I've paid for.

It's okay for you to have the opinion that it's not necessary for them to do so; that's what opinions are for.

[Nightbird]

I think it's impossible for MW5 to be developed without some loans, and those usually come with terms like not giving out free copies.

[Asym]

Peter2k, on 03 January 2019 - 11:36 AM, said:

That does really look like a strange argument

They already have working Mechs in MW5, with animation, the same we have now.
You think they started over from scratch?
I'm not saying we would get our inventory, but I highly doubt any modeler discarding his high poly model just like that.

Also the timeline from MW5 stops at 3049, what happens at 3049 that could be potentially be sold to players? As a DLC maybe?
You really think they start at scratch with all the clan mech models for some DLC?

Of all the reasons why players might not get the old inventory you sure picked a strange one.
Now a monetary reason, selling them again, I can see that, and others.

Hell if they would make a Clan DLC for MW5 then you already got 80% of MWO existing already, all that would be left is some team deathmatch mode with some maps that have a big central feature and you would feel right back at home
To make players not miss FP all they need to do is add a mode with 4 respawns and all of a sudden you have the same depth as we have now in MWO, shallow, but same

It's all about money...... The animation in Cry isn't the same as Unreal.... that's like saying FORTRAN can compile COBOL...

If there was a universal translator, why have we been waiting for years? Yes, the have the files.......want to bet what you do in MWO can't be forwarded to MW5? MW5 is suppose to have "configured mechs" and have a small mech bay......why is that? To control the money..........

Cross overs? Naw, don't see how they could do that. It will be a expanded MW4......same game physics, same game animation sequencing and the battlespaces will be even less rendered than MWO....... We'll see....

[Timuroslav]

Stinger554, on 04 January 2019 - 07:52 AM, said:

I don't think PGI would leave MWO on Cryengine up and running if they did move it over to a new engine. Ergo I would loose access to what I paid to get access to and while I'm aware PGI can basically revoke my access for just about any reason they want to; to do so would not be doing themselves any favors and I would not bother playing the newer version of MWO if they didn't at least provided some form of equivalent compensation if I don't get the mech packs and hero mechs I've paid for.

It's okay for you to have the opinion that it's not necessary for them to do so; that's what opinions are for.

What I Understand from the Christmas podcast is that MW5 is the single player version game of the Mechwarrior Mercs Franchise it will hav all the npc AI MWO will never have. This is directly from Paul Inouye. It will have NO multiplayer content at all. They both have stated that MWO will be the multiplayer experience. That is until trolls and negative nancies kill the game with their pessimism.

[Sjorpha]

Asym, on 04 January 2019 - 08:00 PM, said:

The animation in Cry isn't the same as Unreal.... that's like saying FORTRAN can compile COBOL...

I haven't worked in CE3, but in most cases animation, just like the 3 models, aren't done in the engine itself but in a different software. It's not like PGI has to pull assets from their cryengine client, they should all the original high poly models, rigging and animation and so on as separate assets to work with.

Not saying it's not a big bunch of work to rebuild the game in UE4, it probably is and they would need UE4 proficient people to do it, which is of course a competing resource with MW5 until that game is finished, but I don't think mech models and animation or any other graphical asset related stuff should be the main problem here. I would imagine rebuilding the UI, game mechanics and maps to be the major workload.

The overlap with MW5 should help a lot though, if they can use the MW5 client as a base. The big question should be renewing the mechwarrior license and deciding whether the investment is worth it given that they don't have the goodwill to do crowdfunding.

In any case the likely scenario is silence on this issue at least until, and if, PGI gets to renew the license and maybe even until after MW5 release. There is also no telling if MW5 will be released in time, a couple more years of delays wouldn't surprise me given how normative long delays in development have become in the industry.

Edited by Sjorpha, 05 January 2019 - 01:54 PM.

[Asym]

Sjorpha, on 05 January 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

I haven't worked in CE3, but in most cases animation, just like the 3 models, aren't done in the engine itself but in a different software. It's not like PGI has to pull assets from their cryengine client, they should all the original high poly models, rigging and animation and so on as separate assets to work with.

Not saying it's not a big bunch of work to rebuild the game in UE4, it probably is and they would need UE4 proficient people to do it, which is of course a competing resource with MW5 until that game is finished, but I don't think mech models and animation or any other graphical asset related stuff should be the main problem here. I would imagine rebuilding the UI, game mechanics and maps to be the major workload.

The overlap with MW5 should help a lot though, if they can use the MW5 client as a base. The big question should be renewing the mechwarrior license and deciding whether the investment is worth it given that they don't have the goodwill to do crowdfunding.

In any case the likely scenario is silence on this issue at least until, and if, PGI gets to renew the license and maybe even until after MW5 release. There is also no telling if MW5 will be released in time, a couple more years of delays wouldn't surprise me given how normative long delays in development have become in the industry.

PGI is driving towards "reliable income" and will risk very little to jeopardize MW5's release. I seriously doubt MWO's mechs will ever be able to cross over to the new game.... Why would they risk that. Heck, I have serious reservations about even buying the game at all..... I'm waiting till the game has a review from either friends of mine whom do industry game reviews or a major gaming publishing house reviews the game.... Look at Fall Out 76 if you want to see why waiting is best !

[Anjian]

I would doubt that you would see all your purchased mechs instantly. It will take a considerable amount of time to recreate every mech in inventory.


The best thing I can think of is a compromise, that in the second game, owners of the same mech from the previous game are given a discount in repurchasing the same mechs.

You are not going to get a bank loan unless you have to come up with some kind of monetization plan to present to the bankers before you can even get an approval. And bankers are bankers, they are not gamers, they won't think in the viewpoint of the gamer.


Then after that, you have to actually pay the loan and interest.

[Stinger554]

Timuroslav, on 04 January 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

What I Understand from the Christmas podcast is that MW5 is the single player version game of the Mechwarrior Mercs Franchise it will hav all the npc AI MWO will never have. This is directly from Paul Inouye. It will have NO multiplayer content at all. They both have stated that MWO will be the multiplayer experience. That is until trolls and negative nancies kill the game with their pessimism.

Well technically MW:5 will have MP it's COOP IIRC but yes the PVP is supposed to be in MWO.

Also lol people being negative aren't what's killing the game.

[kuma8877]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

That's not a good argument. Games like Killing Floor 2 has essentially the same mechanics as their predecessors yet they don't give you all the things you had in the previous games.

IMO, as long as MWO on Unreal offers noticeable improvement in performance, quality, and experience compared to current one, I wouldn't mind starting from scratch even if the core concept is still to shoot stompy robots. With the bar current MWO has set, that is not very hard to achieve.

The Killing Floor series is a product with a retail price tag to play, different model. The smart play would be to transfer our inventories forward to maintain the base playerbase and recover lost players with existing inventories on day one. Have 2 teams, one for bringing forward the old mech assets (piece meal if need be to get to launch) and one to continue to create new mech assets to generate the needed income for F2P.

Unless there is a huge time jump or some other such explanation to cut us off, an engine change isn't the same thing in the F2P (games as a service) space as it is in the retail space with sequels and one time purchases/DLC. 2.0 not II.

[El Bandito]

kuma8877, on 06 January 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

The Killing Floor series is a product with a retail price tag to play, different model. The smart play would be to transfer our inventories forward to maintain the base playerbase and recover lost players with existing inventories on day one. Have 2 teams, one for bringing forward the old mech assets (piece meal if need be to get to launch) and one to continue to create new mech assets to generate the needed income for F2P.

Unless there is a huge time jump or some other such explanation to cut us off, an engine change isn't the same thing in the F2P (games as a service) space as it is in the retail space with sequels and one time purchases/DLC. 2.0 not II.

If retail priced games such as Killing Floor 2 and annual 2K sports games are offering basically the same repetitive thing with updated graphics, without keeping our old stuff, then for a free game such as MWO there is even less reason to keep our stuff if it'll be moved to Unreal. F2P, otherwise known as "games as service" is just that--you are only entitled to the service experience, but all your stuff are not yours.

You are basically telling a theme park/cinema in which you rode the rides/saw the movie, to keep the old ticket valid on the next visit. Just doesn't work that way.

Sure it would be nice if PGI does retain our inventory but they are fully within their right to make us start from scratch.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 January 2019 - 12:11 PM.

[kuma8877]

El Bandito, on 06 January 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

If retail priced games such as Killing Floor 2 and annual 2K sports games are offering basically the same repetitive thing with updated graphics, without keeping our old stuff, then for a free game such as MWO there is even less reason to keep our stuff if it'll be moved to Unreal. F2P, otherwise known as "games as service" is just that--you are only entitled to the service experience, but all your stuff are not yours.

You are basically telling a theme park/cinema in which you rode the rides/saw the movie, to keep the old ticket valid on the next visit. Just doesn't work that way.

Sure it would be nice if PGI does retain our inventory but they are fully within their right to make us start from scratch.

There have been quite a few engine upgrades and swaps across the F2P landscape that didn't cut the playerbase off because there is no need to cause the disruption. You're correct that the stuff isn't technically ours and they have the right to, but that would be suicide. A niche franchise, with a niche playerbase, on a niche platform, representing long lived mechs,factions and timeline. Better to start by getting your existing playerbase (current and former) back playing, filling the queues and talking up the upgrade to potential players fresh off of MW5 exposure. Rather than starting by having the vast majority of your playerbase complaining about having to start over and buy the same things they already had, to potential new players. Of all the missteps PGI makes, they are not greed mongers in the F2P space by any measure.

[Kaeb Odellas]

El Bandito, on 06 January 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

If retail priced games such as Killing Floor 2 and annual 2K sports games are offering basically the same repetitive thing with updated graphics, without keeping our old stuff, then for a free game such as MWO there is even less reason to keep our stuff if it'll be moved to Unreal. F2P, otherwise known as "games as service" is just that--you are only entitled to the service experience, but all your stuff are not yours.

You are basically telling a theme park/cinema in which you rode the rides/saw the movie, to keep the old ticket valid on the next visit. Just doesn't work that way.

Sure it would be nice if PGI does retain our inventory but they are fully within their right to make us start from scratch.

The difference here is that those annualized retail games don't have players who have spent literal thousands of dollars on the previous game. PGI already has plenty of angry bittervets to contend with in selling a new MWO game. They don't gain anything by alienating their most loyal customers.

[El Bandito]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 January 2019 - 09:35 PM, said:

The difference here is that those annualized retail games don't have players who have spent literal thousands of dollars on the previous game. PGI already has plenty of angry bittervets to contend with in selling a new MWO game. They don't gain anything by alienating their most loyal customers.

Many of those annualized games do have microtransactions in them you know, such as the EA sports games and CoD series. Also, I laugh at those players who think just cause they spent thousands of dollars in this game PGI owes them something. As I said, it is much more preferable if MWO2 indeed keeps our inventories since I have spent thousands of hours into this game to collect the robbits, but if it doesn't it is also completely understandable. I sure wouldn't lose any sleep over any of it, compared to the risk of my current unit disbanding when moving to MWO2. Now that's something I am actually worried about.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 January 2019 - 11:06 PM.

[Palor]

MWO is getting on in years, maybe it is time for MWO2.