82 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Dread Render, on 18 January 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

yeah, um no.
Gauss guns are recoil-less.
I think the charge time is plenty a handicap.

Huh? Recoil-less? Where did you get that idea? Guess you have never mounted and fired a Heavy Gauss on an IS mech have you. The Heavy Gauss has so much recoil that you feel like your mech is going to get knocked over when you fire on it and you have to pretty much invest into all the stability notes to reduce the screen shake down to something manageable.

The only advantage Gauss Rifles have is heat related. The produce almost no heat.

[Imperius]

Ideas like yours are why people left.

[The6thMessenger]

Imperius, on 18 January 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

Ideas like yours are why people left.

Must've been sorry people to begin with.

[WhineyThePoo]

While we are at it, is it really a Gauss rifle? I thought they were smooth bores and not rifled?
If so, shouldnt they be named Gauss gun?

[The6thMessenger]

WhineyThePoo, on 18 January 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

While we are at it, is it really a Gauss rifle? I thought they were smooth bores and not rifled?
If so, shouldnt they be named Gauss gun?

You should ask the guy that wrote the source material.

[catsonmeth]

...nah. as others have said, magnetic accelerators produce less recoil than conventional guns do. And it would be annoying in gsme. And theres already a mechanic that limits gauss use.

WhineyThePoo, on 18 January 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

While we are at it, is it really a Gauss rifle? I thought they were smooth bores and not rifled?
If so, shouldnt they be named Gauss gun?

The name implies that they're coilguns, but iirc they're railguns, so they aren't really smooth bore or rifled. Railguns can be built so that the EM force makes the projectile spin, though.

[Product9]

Angel of Annihilation, on 18 January 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

The only advantage Gauss Rifles have is heat related. The produce almost no heat.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about in-game, which is fair, but that the Gauss rifles don't produce heat is baffling to me.

WhineyThePoo, on 18 January 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

While we are at it, is it really a Gauss rifle? I thought they were smooth bores and not rifled?
If so, shouldnt they be named Gauss gun?

That's something I've wondered about, too. I believe it's technically possible to have a rifled barrel in a Gauss gun/coilgun, but the friction would lead to a loss in efficiency, and they aren't efficient weapons to begin with. I'm pretty sure in a traditional coilgun the projectile doesn't contact the barrel, as it is suspended by the magnetic fields.

catsonmeth, on 18 January 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:

...nah. as others have said, magnetic accelerators produce less recoil than conventional guns do. And it would be annoying in gsme. And theres already a mechanic that limits gauss use.


The name implies that they're coilguns, but iirc they're railguns, so they aren't really smooth bore or rifled. Railguns can be built so that the EM force makes the projectile spin, though.

Where does this belief come from? I've noticed it being said a lot, as if Newton never existed. There is no reason why a magnetically accelerated projectile would produce less recoil than a chemically accelerated one. As I stated before (check page 1), due to a lack of recoil-compensating techniques, a Gauss gun would likely produce much more recoil than a conventional gun that is comparable in performance.

As for railguns, I'm not aware of any concept that uses electromagnetic forces to impart a spin on the projectile. If you are, please enlighten me.

Railguns are fundamentally different from Gauss guns - they really have nothing in common apart from they use electricity. Two parallel rails are charged, and the projectile (or projectile sabot) completes the circuit. High current passes through, and the projectile is accelerated by the Lorentz force. The projectiles are usually fin stabilized.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Product9, on 18 January 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure you're talking about in-game, which is fair, but that the Gauss rifles don't produce heat is baffling to me.



That's something I've wondered about, too. I believe it's technically possible to have a rifled barrel in a Gauss gun/coilgun, but the friction would lead to a loss in efficiency, and they aren't efficient weapons to begin with. I'm pretty sure in a traditional coilgun the projectile doesn't contact the barrel, as it is suspended by the magnetic fields.



Where does this belief come from? I've noticed it being said a lot, as if Newton never existed. There is no reason why a magnetically accelerated projectile would produce less recoil than a chemically accelerated one. As I stated before (check page 1), due to a lack of recoil-compensating techniques, a Gauss gun would likely produce much more recoil than a conventional gun that is comparable in performance.

As for railguns, I'm not aware of any concept that uses electromagnetic forces to impart a spin on the projectile. If you are, please enlighten me.

Railguns are fundamentally different from Gauss guns - they really have nothing in common apart from they use electricity. Two parallel rails are charged, and the projectile (or projectile sabot) completes the circuit. High current passes through, and the projectile is accelerated by the Lorentz force. The projectiles are usually fin stabilized.

I imagine if you use some kind of helical rail system you could spin a railgun projectile. A coil gun could also use a magnetic projectile and offset each magnet by a few degrees as the projectile goes down the barrel.

[Product9]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 January 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

I imagine if you use some kind of helical rail system you could spin a railgun projectile. A coil gun could also use a magnetic projectile and offset each magnet by a few degrees as the projectile goes down the barrel.

I like where your head is, but I don't want to get into too much speculation. My posts have already been pretty close to off-topic as it is.

[The6thMessenger]

Guys.

I just proposed a supposedly Lore-Adhering idea for balancing.

It's terrible? Fine it's terrible! I don't care (Cunningham's law), I want a discussion about the stuff. Why you gotta go off rails?

[Kaeb Odellas]

The6thMessenger, on 18 January 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

Guys.

I just proposed a supposedly Lore-Adhering idea for balancing.

It's terrible? Fine it's terrible! I don't care (Cunningham's law), I want a discussion about the stuff. Why you gotta go off rails?

These would be great ideas for mods for MW5. Not sure anyone would actually go for it here.

[Y E O N N E]

Hazeclaw, on 18 January 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

IS gauss should have same stats as clan.

Wait, wut? In what way?

[Armored Yokai]

Why nerf the gauss even more? There's many downsides to it already.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

The6thMessenger, on 18 January 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

I just proposed a supposedly Lore-Adhering idea for balancing.

It's terrible? Fine it's terrible!

I guess I'm hung up on why you think you're "balancing" this ****** weapon by making it even more ******?

[K O Z A K]

Y E O N N E, on 18 January 2019 - 09:56 PM, said:

Wait, wut? In what way?

I see no reason why IS gauss takes up more slots and tonnage. Just as I think no gauss rifles should blow up as easily as some do

[Y E O N N E]

Hazeclaw, on 18 January 2019 - 10:31 PM, said:

I see no reason why IS gauss takes up more slots and tonnage. Just as I think no gauss rifles should blow up as easily as some do

Takes up more because PGI is steadfastly sticking to those things. Why they don't give it some meaningful kickback for those extra resources, i.e. shorter cooldown, instead of making the Clan one extra squishy...I cannot say.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Hazeclaw, on 18 January 2019 - 10:31 PM, said:

I see no reason why IS gauss takes up more slots and tonnage. Just as I think no gauss rifles should blow up as easily as some do

They're that way because Russ wants every mech to be tabletop legal. Changing weights and sizes allows players to make mechs that wouldn't be possible in tabletop.

[Dimento Graven]

The6thMessenger, on 17 January 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:

Have you ever heard the story of two hunchbacks with gauss-rifles of the Ninth Ghost Regiment? The story of Busosenshi Sandy "Turtle" Porter, and her lightly-armored Hunchback with a lot of rear-armor?

Story goes is that their Hunchbacks armed with Prototype Gauss Rifles, have so much recoil that their mechs will topple over after firing.

Here's an idea, not that i have against gauss-rifles, what if Gauss-Rifles prevents (or reduce movement-speed) while charging? (and cannot fire while in the air). This should curtail pre-charging in tradings, and would quite literally do what the Charge-System was meant to do, and that is to compensate for the vast-projectile of Gauss shells.

If not for all gauss, perhaps lets trade in the quite-trivial reticle-shake for it?

Also, interested for a new hero?

5-Chances

...

No. Simply: No.

The gauss already suffers the most and severest nerfs and inherit drawbacks of ANY weapon in this game, no need to saddle it with more.

It's super heavy.
Has a long reload time.
It is VERY large.
Suffers a charge up cycle.
One of the lowest DPS and DPT weapons in the game.
Has, at least, a 90% chance to explode every time it gets hit.
Can only charge and fire two simultaneously.
No chain fire.
Suffered the ballistics triple range nerf.
Crits have been nerfed, then suffered along with ballistcs crit nerfing.

It's benefits are:
Range
Fast projectile (not instant, just very fast).
Low heat.

So, again, no.

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 January 2019 - 11:21 PM, said:

They're that way because Russ wants every mech to be tabletop legal. Changing weights and sizes allows players to make mechs that wouldn't be possible in tabletop.

No such thing as "TT legal" in MWO. Armor is doubled, ammo is doubled, quirks and skills.

None of this translates into "table top legal"...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 19 January 2019 - 12:07 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

HammerMaster, on 18 January 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Range modier would be terrible!
Don't you recall 2013 getting shot in the red atlas eye on old forest colony!?

Hate to tell you this, but when Old Forest Colony comes back, you'll still be getting headshot.

It was a horrifically small map compared to the ones we normally play on.

[Dimento Graven]

Product9, on 18 January 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm afraid you're mistaken. In a traditional firearm the projectile is accelerated by the expansion of hot gases, which continues to act on the projectile as it moves through the barrel. This is why barrel length has an effect on muzzle velocity - the projectile continues to accelerate until it leaves the muzzle, so longer barrels give more time for the gasses to act on said projectile.

Also, in firearms/cannons, the gasses can be used to reduce felt recoil, such as with a muzzle brake. There are also other recoil-reducing techniques, and they can be combined in a single system. Magnetically accelerated weapons have no such mechanisms so far as I am aware.

So, Gauss weapons would actually probably have higher (perhaps much higher) recoil than their chemically accelerated brethren.

Accelerating the mass of the projectile ALSO adds recoil.

The mass of the gauss round is being PULLED forward, not pushed, because of the pull overcoming the inertia of the slug t hat will pull the rifle back slightly. Because the mass of the round is so great, and the speed it's being pulled on the barrel is being increased quickly the rifle will have some kick.