19 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Was mucking around in 'mech lab and realized that the bonuses imparted to velocity and range wasn't being reflected in the weapon info, the same that skills does.

Take an unskilled 'mech, drop a weapon in place like a PPC, ERLL or AC20, pop in any targeting computer, then hover over the weapon, range and velocity will remain un-updated.

Now, remove the TC, go to skills and add skills for range and velocity, and you'll see the bonus show up in parenthesis.

Add your TC back, the bonus values in the parenthesis remain unchanged.

Is this a bug, or is this by design?

[Prototelis]

It isn't a bug persay. I've always assumed there is some juju that prevents them from adding it.

If you need to be sure about something drop testing grounds to check.

Edited by Prototelis, 21 January 2019 - 10:58 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 21 January 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

It isn't a bug persay. I've always assumed there is some juju that prevents them from adding it.

If you need to be sure about something drop testing grounds to check.

Probably will at some point, but it makes me wonder about the actual values vs. the values really used in the calculations.

I'm suspicious by nature and am ready to believe that not all the stated bonuses work as advertised, and for some of the stats there'd be a bit of difficulty measuring whether or not you're receiving your bonus on all the weapons, namely speed and critical chance.

I may give it a shot though when I've got the time to actually sit down and shift a build to say... AC/20, because it should be a significantly noticeable increase when equipped with a TC mk 8), verses a Gauss rifle where 2000m/s velocity is already damned fast... I think it'll be easier to notice the difference 650 and 894, verses 2000 and 2750. There comes a point where the speed is just so great you'll be measuring 10ths of seconds? I dunno... We'll see.

The next thing is TC stat boosts stacking with skill boosts.

Max your velocity and range skills and AC20 is ranged 540 (+81), and velocity 650 (+162.5). I "assume" that TC bonuses stack based on the BASE values of the weapon, not the BASE+SKILLs value, but again, without it being displayed, how do you know? Or could PGI have a bug in it that only takes the highest (or lowest) bonus value, and that's it? And then all this plus quirks?!?!

It's probably documented somewhere, but testing and, more importantly, confirming everything related to weapon performance seems rather difficult for everything except range bonuses.

Oh well... I'll figure it out...

[Koniving]

Chris recently said that any "conditional" bonus... such as Artemis, is not displayed in the mechlab because it isn't permanent.

Artemis, such is because the bonus only applies with line of sight.

BAP/CAP/CLAP because the bonus is conditional based on the equipment still existing (you don't see a +X sensor range bonus for having BAP installed, now do you?)

And I imagine the TC, because of the same reason (if the equipment is destroyed the bonus is lost).

As such, only "permanent" aka non-conditional quirks are shown in the mechlab's bonuses..

[Dimento Graven]

Koniving, on 21 January 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

Chris recently said that any "conditional" bonus... such as Artemis, is not displayed in the mechlab because it isn't permanent.

Artemis, such is because the bonus only applies with line of sight.

...

And I imagine the TC, because of the same reason (if the equipment is destroyed the bonus is lost).

As such, only "permanent" aka non-conditional quirks are shown in the mech lab's bonuses..

I would argue it's better to list them, but with an 'asterisk', and a note indicating specifying the bonus is associated with specific equipment and once the equipment is destroyed, the bonus is lost.

Certainly a better option than, "well we just won't show it to you"...

Quote

BAP/CAP/CLAP because the bonus is conditional based on the equipment still existing (you don't see a +X sensor range bonus for having BAP installed, now do you?)

Never noticed this before. But I rarely, if ever, use BAP/CAP/CLAP or use weapon systems that would benefit from such equipment.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 January 2019 - 11:33 AM.

[Antares102]

Because the game engine does not support it!
Wait... sorry wrong thread.

Would be great to have those modifiers available.
Just like many other attributes of weapons that are not shown.

[Koniving]

I agree, but such is how they chose to do it.
You also don't get one when you equip ECM, saying you have an ECM field of X.

[Verilligo]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

Max your velocity and range skills and AC20 is ranged 540 (+81), and velocity 650 (+162.5). I "assume" that TC bonuses stack based on the BASE values of the weapon, not the BASE+SKILLs value, but again, without it being displayed, how do you know? Or could PGI have a bug in it that only takes the highest (or lowest) bonus value, and that's it? And then all this plus quirks?!?!

As far as I know, all boosts are additive with quirks and skills when it comes to determining the sum bonus. Incidentally, I believe it was discovered a while back that the TC boosts aren't 100% accurate, with the actual boost being slightly less than displayed as the displayed value is rounded up. It's such a small discrepancy that it shouldn't matter, though.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

it's another "feature".
remember, it's from the same people who implemented a refresh-button that doesn't refresh, a queue-counter that can't count, a match-timer that can't count down from 60 to 0 without screwing it up FOR YEARS... we could go on, but .. just enjoy the show ;-)

[TheArisen]

An idea for PGI would be to include it but simply make the different bonuses a different color.
Blue = Quirks
Green = Skills
Yellow = Equipment

For colorblind folks maybe some kind of symbol or letter to denote what they are? "Q" for quirks, "S" for skills and "E" for equipment.

[HammerMaster]

Koniving, on 21 January 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

BAP/CAP/CLAP

CLAP.
Can't believe I've missed this before.
Can't even.

[Koniving]

Verilligo, on 21 January 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

As far as I know, all boosts are additive with quirks and skills when it comes to determining the sum bonus. Incidentally, I believe it was discovered a while back that the TC boosts aren't 100% accurate, with the actual boost being slightly less than displayed as the displayed value is rounded up. It's such a small discrepancy that it shouldn't matter, though.

Correct. The total percentage added together is what is applied to the final product. So it goes
Velocity + (quirk + skillets + equipment bonus) = final outcome.

Result is rounded to nearest whole number if a decimal should arise.

[El Bandito]

Another question is: Is TCMK1 still worth the weight?

[The6thMessenger]

Koniving, on 21 January 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

Chris recently said that any "conditional" bonus... such as Artemis, is not displayed in the mechlab because it isn't permanent.

Artemis, such is because the bonus only applies with line of sight.

Wait a ******* minute.

Didn't we just had an epiphany that Artemis didn't actually discriminated bonuses with or without LOS?

El Bandito, on 21 January 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Another question is: Is TCMK1 still worth the weight?

PGI could always add -10% (max 20%) Lock-Time and +6 degrees (max 20 degrees) Lock-Angle, +2 for each succeeding level. One way to counteract the homing weapons nerf.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 21 January 2019 - 10:59 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 21 January 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Another question is: Is TCMK1 still worth the weight?

Are you not using lasers, PPCs, or ACs?

Do you have more than one ton left?

Can you fit a DHS?

Will going up an engine size give you another internal sink/slot?

Will going up an engine size give you a >8 kph boost?

Are you inadequately armored anywhere for the situations you see yourself typically getting into?

If you answered no to all of the above, a TC Mk. I is worth it.

[mad kat]

El Bandito, on 21 January 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Another question is: Is TCMK1 still worth the weight?

I've only ever used the MK1 when I have a ton to spare and nothing else to fit into it.

As far as I can tell TC's don't become useful until you've got to the mk5. Twin heavy PPC's tied to a TC at mk5 and above seems to be quite good (even if just for the crit chance).

[TheArisen]

Y E O N N E, on 21 January 2019 - 11:21 PM, said:

Are you not using lasers, PPCs, or ACs?

Do you have more than one ton left?

Can you fit a DHS?

Will going up an engine size give you another internal sink/slot?

Will going up an engine size give you a >8 kph boost?

Are you inadequately armored anywhere for the situations you see yourself typically getting into?

If you answered no to all of the above, a TC Mk. I is worth it.

I'd add, Do you have enough ammo?

[El Bandito]

Y E O N N E, on 21 January 2019 - 11:21 PM, said:

Can you fit a DHS?

So TCMK1 is worth less than a DHS. Gotcha.

TheArisen, on 22 January 2019 - 12:30 AM, said:

I'd add, Do you have enough ammo?

Assuming I have enough ammo for a wave but since I play FP every ton of ammo is worth better score...

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 22 January 2019 - 12:43 AM, said:

So TCMK1 is worth less than a DHS. Gotcha.

Yes.

[Ralatar]

Another question is do you like having 17.5% faster targeting data on top of the other bonuses...

Crit builds love that