31 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

Actually, speaking of multiple-mode-queueing:
Just let players queue for both modes. That is, they can queue for both normal Quickplay and Infinite-Respawn-Zerging-Mode.

Chances are that the Infinite-Respawn-mode would pop first. You could jump in there and mindlessly shoot robots for a few minutes. You would still be queued for Quickplay. Whilst shooting robots in Infinite-Respawn-mode, if the queue for Quickplay pops, you can jump into your regular Quickplay match with no penalty for leaving the Infinite-Respawn-mode.

There you go, done. You don't split players into different buckets, and veterans and newbies alike get a game mode where they can practice base mechanics with high repetition, while still getting just as many people into Quickplay as you do now.

[Khobai]

MWLL was a better game

its a shame PGI never learned anything from it

Xulld, on 23 January 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

The problem is how long it takes to get into a match and how long you end up shooting and basically engaging in combat vs. Rotating to stay alive and just marching across the map.

If there was a General Play option to run 8v8 on only small maps with 4 respawns this game would be 1000% more fun to play.

Just my two cents.

---

Also objectives are lame, at least make them realistic. Assault what? and why cannot we take it back? How about you loose respawns until you take it back? That would be fun and dynamic.

Dominate what? Why is the center of the map important? How about repair bays are there? That would again make it dynamic.

youre absolutely right.

skirmish causes 100% of the problems people hate about MWO. deathballing, nascaring, poking/snipe meta, its all caused by skirmish because players are paralyzed into actually playing the game by fear of dying. So they play in a way that minimizes their chance of dying which results in a lot of stagnant, non-commital, low-action gameplay.

the best gamemode in MWO and the one thats the most dynamic is faction play conquest with respawns. And even thats just a shadow of an actual good gamemode... that should be the basis for all gamemodes not crappy skirmish.

MWO was only ever a shell for selling mechpacks though. Youre not supposed to actually have fun with your mechs after you buy them. Because making the game fun would be too much work for PGI.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2019 - 08:36 PM.

[Koniving]

Not sure about the hate on respawns.

Is it directed at bringing back the same mech 4 times...
Or bringing more than one mech, delivered to the field sometime after the first is down?

[Mole]

I don't know what you people want. You want objectives to matter more but you are repulsed by any kind of respawning. Objectives are never going to matter unless it's easier to take the objective than it is to kill all the bad guys. When there's 12 and only 12 bad guys to kill, the choice becomes obvious that killing the enemy team is the best path to victory. No respawns is precisely why every game mode just turns into another flavor of skirmish.

Edited by Mole, 25 January 2019 - 09:10 PM.

[Variant1]

How bout a heavy helping of no.
1.Ive played faction play and respawns snowball a loss hard because the enemy team can simply camp the dropships
2. Theres is already a mode with respawns its called faction play
3. The no respawns is what makes mwo unique and emphasis the importance of survivng and ammo management, having respawns just becomes who can whittle down the most the quickest
4. what this games needs is more destruction, some breakable things and some npcs like tanks and infantry to crush or some choppers to shoot down. but given their statement about ai i highly doubt those will be added
also hek no 8v8 should stay ded

[DisasterTheory]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

That's cause LL maps were huge. In small maps OP is suggesting people can spawn camp the base easily after smashing one side.

Not if you made the respawn points random like in previous games. Mech3 had a perfect respawn system, where ever you died the game would chose a spawn point at least a quarter a map away from your death point.

[El Bandito]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 25 January 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:

Not if you made the respawn points random like in previous games. Mech3 had a perfect respawn system, where ever you died the game would chose a spawn point at least a quarter a map away from your death point.

That mostly works in free for all mode, not team match mode where cooperation is key.

[Anjian]

Variant1, on 25 January 2019 - 10:19 PM, said:

How bout a heavy helping of no.
1.Ive played faction play and respawns snowball a loss hard because the enemy team can simply camp the dropships
2. Theres is already a mode with respawns its called faction play
3. The no respawns is what makes mwo unique and emphasis the importance of survivng and ammo management, having respawns just becomes who can whittle down the most the quickest
4. what this games needs is more destruction, some breakable things and some npcs like tanks and infantry to crush or some choppers to shoot down. but given their statement about ai i highly doubt those will be added
also hek no 8v8 should stay ded

You only played a game with a game mode design that is awful.

Try playing other games --- not MWO --- with respawns that truly work. Because there are many, and are successful.

Edited by Anjian, 26 January 2019 - 09:38 AM.

[Anjian]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 25 January 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:

Not if you made the respawn points random like in previous games. Mech3 had a perfect respawn system, where ever you died the game would chose a spawn point at least a quarter a map away from your death point.

That's not a perfect respawn system. The perfect respawn system would allow you to pick one of a number of pre-selected points to drop on, which adds an element of strategy if not a sense of choice or convenience. There are situations where you might actually want to drop fresh near your enemy, not far.

I have seen a game where you can literally drop on almost any point in the map with precision. That system can also be abused since it destroys the point of positioning, since you can drop a brawler right next to your opponent, or even drop behind the enemy team. This can get too aggressive and removes positional strategy from the game.

There are two ways you can approach a pre-selected drop.

1.) The map has for example, three spots, where you can choose to drop onto.

2.) If your team has captured a forward point or points, you can drop in any of these areas to support an advance. This can lead to some very aggressive play and suitable for objective mode type of play.

Edited by Anjian, 26 January 2019 - 09:59 AM.

[Anjian]

Xulld, on 23 January 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

The problem is how long it takes to get into a match and how long you end up shooting and basically engaging in combat vs. Rotating to stay alive and just marching across the map.

If there was a General Play option to run 8v8 on only small maps with 4 respawns this game would be 1000% more fun to play.

Just my two cents.

---

Also objectives are lame, at least make them realistic. Assault what? and why cannot we take it back? How about you loose respawns until you take it back? That would be fun and dynamic.

Dominate what? Why is the center of the map important? How about repair bays are there? That would again make it dynamic.

There are already games that do this. If MWO is doing 8 vs.8 with respawns, that's already awfully generous since the most common number of players for such games is 5 vs.5 or 6 vs. 6 only. There are even 4 vs. 4.

There are three ways to end a game.

Using a drop deck, that gives you a limited number of respawns from a set of choices you have prepared. This can be with or without a match timer.

Infinite respawns with a match timer.

Match timer means when time is up, match is finished. The team with the most points wins. Total destruction of one side is not necessary, only being ahead of points, is enough to win.

Variations to the respawns system includes ticket based, where completion of objectives earns you tickets that can be used to "purchase" extra respawns.

[Variant1]

Anjian, on 26 January 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

You only played a game with a game mode design that is awful.

Try playing other games --- not MWO --- with respawns that truly work. Because there are many, and are successful.

yeah but where talking about mwo not those other games though

[Anjian]

Variant1, on 26 January 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

yeah but where talking about mwo not those other games though

Its not like you can fix this even on MWO, time, talent, money and having the will power to do it, none of which is no longer there for MWO. Or if you choose to introduce multiplayer on MW5 or do MWO 2.

All games have similar principles. If you want a single spawn game, you want something that has a longer TTK so the player has a longer time of engagement in ratio of waits and non engagement times. That's a common principle with games. If you have short TTK its better to have respawns.

WoT, World of Warships, etc,. has long TTK times because they not only feature things like repair, in cases like WoWs, heals (HP recovery), but most importantly, armor deflection. This means if you get hit, the shot bounces off completely from your armor, like your freaking Superman, and you don't experience any HP reduction whatsoever. What also makes their games longer, and keeps the match conclusion uncertain even longer is they have huge teams, like 15 or 16 on each side. To keep feeding those queues, they have huge player bases, and they throw great effort in ads and marketing to keep filling the queues with new players.

On MWO, you don't have huge player queues, you don't have huge marketing budgets and the sign of any effort put into that, or the kind of TTK you would expect, like say, a Battleship.

And even when you have armor deflection, I still found respawns to have not just more fun in the game, but adds a more genuine aura of war, as respawns emulate the important characteristic of war called reinforcement. That is why I prefer to play War Thunder over World of Tanks. Even World of Tanks are adding a respawn mode for their Tier 10 players.

War Thunder illustrates how TTK affects the game mode they choose.

Arcade mode --- targeting is simpler with the computer helping your target ranging. People die a lot faster. So you get respawns. Note that tanks are only limited to 3 spawns but airplanes allow you to use practically all you have on your deck, even if you have five or six. The difference of tanks and planes is that tanks are a lot sturdier and survivable, while planes can go down a lot faster.

Realistic and Sim modes --- The game is much harder as aiming is more realistic. No aids whatsoever. Because its a lot harder to hit someone, TTK is much longer and extended. So no respawns here basically except for a ticket based respawn on Realistic.

Even then people like to flock into custom games where you can respawn indefinitely.

Not every game can afford matches made from more than 30 players in a waiting queue. With smaller player bases, they have to do less. So they work with creating matches of teams with 4, 5, or 6 players in one side and the other, then with respawns from infinite to drop deck. The most common team size is 6, and 6 is considered the standard for shooters. For MOBAs, the standard team size is 5 vs. 5, but lately League of Legends is experimenting with 6 vs. 6. CSGO competitive if I remember is 5 vs. 5.

If MWO goes 8 vs. 8 with respawns, that's like two or three above the norm. If there is a way to do it with only 6 vs 6 on a smaller map, so much the better. You got more resources to improve the graphics on the map and the mechs. You may get better bandwidth per game, better hit registration, less lag and rubber banding and so on. Your match waiting time will be shorter. When you have 6 vs. 6, things feel a lot more personal, and respawns allow you the element of revenge within the match which adds to the spice of the game.

Edited by Anjian, 26 January 2019 - 09:59 PM.