37 replies to this topic

[LowSubmarino]

In the videos I saw so far, MW5's ai looked so bad.

Mechs just doing the weirdest thing, rotating, moving forward and backward again ever so slowly, doing the worst kind of nööbish looking thing.

And since pgi is known to never fix or address any issues in their games, I wonder if those of you that preordered the game are a little worried when you see how the ai looks in the videos.

I mean, you mostly play it vs ai, right? With a lance of 4 if you want.

But the ai....hahaha omg.

I mean....it looked bad and thats being nice. I would say it looked like utter trash but I wanne stay diplomatic today.

[Acersecomic]

If it is stll a year before launch, there is good chance it will all get adressed and that video was more of a basic display and progress, which is what people wanted badly. A status report.
Despite PGI's record, I am feeling optimistic that they will pull through a decent game, but my hopes aren't high.

[Darian DelFord]

Why do you think they took Escort mode away. They did not want to showcase the ONLY example of AI they have come up with. I mean seriously your trying to escape.... WTH take an atlas when a Flea 20 with ECM and Masc would get you out so much quicker.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

The AI shot you in the back while using you for cover? It told you to push while it stayed behind cover? The entire AI lance nascared away, leaving you to get swarmed the moment it started taking fire? The AI voted for domination, never having any intention of entering the circle itself? Were you watching a MW5 video or a MWo streamer?

Edited by Andres Gomez, 25 January 2019 - 05:41 AM.

[Bombast]

Darian DelFord, on 25 January 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

WTH take an atlas when a Flea 20 with ECM and Masc would get you out so much quicker.

Just pretend you're trying to save Ian Davion's dumb ***.

[Verilligo]

Darian DelFord, on 25 January 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

Why do you think they took Escort mode away. They did not want to showcase the ONLY example of AI they have come up with. I mean seriously your trying to escape.... WTH take an atlas when a Flea 20 with ECM and Masc would get you out so much quicker.

That Atlas wasn't an AI. It was just a mobile unit that picked a random fixed path at the start of a match and traveled along it, confirmed by Paul himself if memory serves. This is why the Atlas could get hung up on terrain and get bodyblocked by other mechs, it likely didn't even have rudimentary pathfinding.

As to the AI in display in the MW5 demo... it wasn't great. But it's also a necessary evil to a certain extent. You can only make the AI competent enough to provide a certain amount of challenge if you're going to be forcing a 4-person lance to deal with 12 mechs plus assorted vehicles and turrets. Especially in a demo setting where you're kind of trying to force the player to win so they get to experience the full thing. We'll have to see what the final product looks like and whether the AI is moddable like the rest of the game.

[RickySpanish]

Could you imagine if they made the AI even halfway competent? We would have a repeat of S7 all over again, with complaint posts about the AI constantly choosing the cheesiest builds and generally playing counter to however Mr Mech Dad was expecting. Be careful what you wish for, it's entirely possible for the developers to make the AI extremely frustrating to play against. Ask anyone who played Elite after the devs were accused of being bad at AI. They turned it up to 11 in the next patch and gave NPC pilots ships, equipment, tactics and skill equal to your average player. It was great, if you weren't a crap pilot.

[w4ldO]

the AI in MWO doesn't look any better

AI stands for automated idiot, right?

[Karl Streiger]

Verilligo, on 25 January 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

You can only make the AI competent enough to provide a certain amount of challenge if you're going to be forcing a 4-person lance to deal with 12 mechs plus assorted vehicles and turrets.

Well this is the issue, isn't it?

This is the part I hated most about other Mechwarrior Games - you kill a regimental combat group or even more single handed.

Instead of just dropping more crappy units and call them elite by sequences (Thor duel in the swamp -> MW4?) you should do good mission designs.
A mercenary group of 4 usually is used as reinforcement of a bigger game - you are part of an assault and there you also only have to guard a sector or make a push into a region (to become cannon fodder) - think of ARMA - mission design overcomes the sometimes lacking AI.

well even with the current AI the game can be challenging without fighting dozens of enemy waves.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 January 2019 - 06:25 AM.

[Acersecomic]

That's why shooter games employ things like "first shot misses" and for others it has a % chance of hitting based on traversal speed, distance, size etc.

[Prototelis]

Escort vip WAS NOT ai.

Mw5 demo so dumbed down because the controls were bad/mechdad

[AncientRaig]

Lets be honest here, MW games have never had amazing AI. Especially in city fights. MW5's AI looked better than MW4's, which is something of an improvement. And we've still got 7 months before release for improvements to be made. I'll be entirely honest, if the friendly AI can actually pathfind through cities without constantly getting stuck, lost, or just bugging out completely and refusing to move or fight, I'll be a happy man.

[Toothless]

Are there games that have some impressive AI that sometimes gives you a thrill and a surprise? Yes.

Is "Cant-Figure-Out-LBX-Ammo-Switching-Code-Cause-Its-Too-Hard-And-The-Guy-Took-His-Notes-With-Him-So-Lets-Invent-Clan-Auto-Cannons" PGI going to deliver that? I have a gold mekpak to sell you if you think so.

[Nightbird]

AI will be bad, it's a given.

It's a single player game after all. MWO will be the challenging version with better AI.

[Bombast]

RickySpanish, on 25 January 2019 - 06:07 AM, said:

Be careful what you wish for, it's entirely possible for the developers to make the AI extremely frustrating to play against.

There's a lot of video game AI demonstration/explanation videos on youtube, and the story in all of them is about the same - It's easy to make AI that can kick your butt. What's hard is making AI that's fun to play against. That's the challenge.

Nightbird, on 25 January 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

It's a single player game after all. MWO will be the challenging version with better AI.

The challenge in MWO isn't that the 'AI' is better than a single player game's AI, it's that the bad 'AI' is on your team too.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Toothless, on 25 January 2019 - 07:27 AM, said:

Are there games that have some impressive AI that sometimes gives you a thrill and a surprise? Yes.

Is "Cant-Figure-Out-LBX-Ammo-Switching-Code-Cause-Its-Too-Hard-And-The-Guy-Took-His-Notes-With-Him-So-Lets-Invent-Clan-Auto-Cannons" PGI going to deliver that? I have a gold mekpak to sell you if you think so.

There is a difference. I am convinced that MWO is just a funding tool that they don't really care about, while MW5 is supposed to be their first real attempt at a AAA title. I think the neglect we see in MWO is just a byproduct of their complete focus on MW5. That being the case, there is at least an outside shot of MW5 being at least decent.

[Antares102]

Acersecomic, on 25 January 2019 - 04:56 AM, said:

If it is stll a year before launch, there is good chance it will all get adressed and that video was more of a basic display and progress, which is what people wanted badly. A status report.
Despite PGI's record, I am feeling optimistic that they will pull through a decent game, but my hopes aren't high.

Nope it wont improve a lot.
Hope for it and be disappointed.

Edited by Antares102, 25 January 2019 - 07:50 AM.

[Toothless]

Angel of Annihilation, on 25 January 2019 - 07:46 AM, said:

There is a difference. I am convinced that MWO is just a funding tool that they don't really care about, while MW5 is supposed to be their first real attempt at a AAA title. I think the neglect we see in MWO is just a byproduct of their complete focus on MW5. That being the case, there is at least an outside shot of MW5 being at least decent.

Nah, they havent been developing MW5 for six/seven years, have they? That would explain the glacial, inconceivably low a mount of development beyond mechs in the game.

In fact, they tried to crowd fund another game, remember? At the height of their unpopularity and when the villagers were gathering pitchforks, they had the balls to say "Hey give us more money to make a space sim!"

Edited by Toothless, 25 January 2019 - 08:18 AM.

[eminus]

rumor has it that the AI of PGI gathers data from PUG battles in quickplay...all the tactics/techniques/moves and even the rants.

the AI is molded by us PUGS in quickplay

[Acersecomic]

eminus, on 25 January 2019 - 08:42 AM, said:

rumor has it that the AI of PGI gathers data from PUG battles in quickplay...all the tactics/techniques/moves and even the rants.

the AI is molded by us PUGS in quickplay

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