12 replies to this topic

[Phoenix 72]

I just noticed something on one of my Crabs. It has 5 back armour. And with skillpoints, I get 20% additional armour... Call me silly, but should not a bonus of 20% on top of 5 armour yield 6 back armour? I am asking because it only shows 5.

If I put in an additional point of armour to the back, it jumps from 5 to 7, so I get the bonus armour then. But not with 5. So I take it that it is not actually 20% when it shows 20%?

[loopala]

this has been a problem since the beginning. for what ever reason the rounding that the mechlab does defies normal logic and mathematical convention. noticed must often when add that last 0.1 ton of armor and either getting an extra couple of points or not.

short answer, mechlab just can't do math right. .

[Tarl Cabot]

Mech weight changes in increments of 0.1 for every 6 points of armor, regardless if any nodes are used or type of armor. That is threshold PGI has set in its calculations and which have to be met to prevent breaking something/generating overflow error.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 27 January 2019 - 06:49 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

While the Mechlab can only display armor values as integers, the game does track fractional amounts (it has to, because many weapons deal fractional damage values). You are receiving the correct armor bonus from your skill tree nodes in-game; Mechlab is just rounding it off in the build screen.

[Koniving]

Darakor Stormwind, on 26 January 2019 - 03:36 AM, said:

I just noticed something on one of my Crabs. It has 5 back armour. And with skillpoints, I get 20% additional armour... Call me silly, but should not a bonus of 20% on top of 5 armour yield 6 back armour? I am asking because it only shows 5.

If I put in an additional point of armour to the back, it jumps from 5 to 7, so I get the bonus armour then. But not with 5. So I take it that it is not actually 20% when it shows 20%?

"4" is the armor you actually have if the number is BLUE.
4 + 20% is 4.8, giving you 5.

I believe it would also say "+1". Now if it doesn't, that's a different story.

Though it upping to 7 does suggest something else is going on.

[Nightbird]

If you're worried about it get a buddy to shoot you in the back with a ML or AC5. You'll see that you won't be cored... i.e. you're getting the bonus.

[Tarl Cabot]

The Green number, +1 there sees an increase every 6 pts at 20%, 11 pts around 9.5%, 14 points at around 7.6%, 18 pts at around 5.7% , 27 pts around 3.8% (meds)

75 Ton heavy - the first 1 pt, then 1 pt increment threshold @ set percentage
67 pts @ 1.5%
34 pts @ 3.0%
23 pts @ 4.5%
17 pts @ 6.0%
14 pts @ 7.5%
12 pts @ 9.0%
10 pts @ 10.5%
9 pts @ 12.0%
8 pts @ 13.5%
7 pts @ 15.0%

50 ton medium - the first 1 pt, then 1 pt increment threshold @ set percentage

50 pts @ 2.0%
..
10 pts @ 10.0%, next step 21 pts / 32 pts / 43 pts (double checked)
9 pts @ 12.0%, next step 18 pts/ 27 pts / 37 pts (double checked)
8 pts @ 14.0%, next step 16 pts / 24 pts / 32 pts
7 pts @ 16.0%, next step 14 pts / 21 pts / 28 pts
6 pts @ 18.0%, next step 13 pts / 19 pts / 26 pts
6 pts @ 20.0%, next step 12 pts / 18 pts / 24 pts

The nodes allow one to go over the max armor value for a section but it also comes at cost in weight. The only time it is not accounted in the mech weight is the actual armor quirks.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 January 2019 - 04:12 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

"The nodes allow one to go over the max armor value for a section but it also comes at cost in weight."

Really? You know, I never looked at that before...always thought it was bonus points.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 27 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Same. Each threshold also included a tick up on weight, naturally, but at each threshold it added to the +weight as well as would jump by adding that extra point, ie going from 23 to 24 jumps it to 25. But that next threshold is 32 > 33 and not 33 > 34. I am sure someone has already done the numbers but it has been so long ago...

The above numbers were on non-quirked mechs. Lets see how that works with armored quirked mechs.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 27 January 2019 - 05:15 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

50 ton mech leg +14 armor quirk

14 = +14 quirk + 0 armor = 14 (no change) @ 2.0% no change in pts
55 = + 14 + 50 armor @ 2.0% 1st 1 pt increase (same as non-quirked mech)...

16 // (+14 quirk + 2 node) + 0 armor @ 20.0%. Adds 2 pts for total 16 pts (+16) 16 total armor points showing

The 2 node points fits in the non-quirk 50-ton mech, which has changed a 1pt at 6 and 12 pt mark. If the quirk amount had been set at 16, it would have earned 3 pts @ 20% w/o any additional armor.

18 // (+14 quirk+ 2 node) + 2 armor @ 20.0%, adds one pt to each final number (+17) 19 total armor points showing
The first number is where the armor would jump up that one node point
24 // (+14 quirk + 2 node) + 7 armor @ 20.0%, "" (+18) 25 ""
30 // (+14 quirk + 2 node) + 12 armor @ 20.0%, "" (+19) 31 ""
..
72 // (+14 quirk + 2 node) + 47 armor @ 20.0%, "" (+26) 73 ""

50 ton non quirk leg max 48pts / 20% node max 57 pts (+9)
50 ton quirk +14 leg max 62pts (+14) / 20% node max 74 pts (+26)

Redacting the statement that the node points cost weight. I noted that only due to the change in mech weight each time the threshold was reached.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 27 January 2019 - 06:07 PM.

[The Basilisk]

Wow at all the guesstimations I read so far...

Armor formula as derived from Battletech rulebook. (base armorvalues have been doubbled due to pgi brain **** logic in effin up doing the weapon mechanics)

Armortonnage*32(16)*Armortype multiplicator=armorvalue (rounded!!!)
(Armortype is FF or standart)

Long story short if you got 4.5 armor in the back you see 5.......rest is basic logic.

[Tarl Cabot]

The OP was not asking about the "weight", but the when the armor skill nodes kicked in, when there is a tick increase of that one extra point. He was expecting to see 5>6 with a 20% armor skill node but that uptick for that 1 extra armor point does not happen until 6>7.

Nor does changing the armor type change the threshold on the uptick, that only affects the weight savings and when the the weight, which is rounded to 10ths, sees a change.

[The Basilisk]

Ah you got me wrong there.
Thought my meaning would be selfexplainatory.
Maybe I need to be more clear.
Since the armor value is calculated by armor weight as over all armor value/pool for the mech there are internal fractions when you distribute that armor from the mechs armor pool to the zones.
So logicaly the bonus armor from the skills also applys to the overall armor value resulting in internal fractions when you distribute the armor to the zones. Hence the jumps in value when you cross the fractional treshhold that causes the mechhangar to round to the next full number.

Edited by The Basilisk, 28 January 2019 - 12:19 PM.