74 replies to this topic

[Antares102]

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Also, the CP-S has no more DPS with quad LB10-X than any other 'Mech with quad LB10-X.

Of course it does not have more DPS than other quad LBX10 but it has the highest agility of all quad LBX mechs (of which there are only 4 anyway) and thus it performs the best.

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 09:55 AM.

[Cyanogene]

too*

[tutzdes]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Of course it does not have more DPS than other quad LBX10 but it has the highest agility of all quad LBX mechs (of which there are only 4 anyway) and thus it performs the best.

Annihilator, Fafnir, Sleipnir, Mauler, Nightstar, Kodiak, Dire Whale. Did I forget something? Maybe Gyr, but it can't do it with sane armor.

[Antares102]

tutzdes, on 26 January 2019 - 10:49 AM, said:

Annihilator, Fafnir, Sleipnir, Mauler, Nightstar, Kodiak, Dire Whale. Did I forget something? Maybe Gyr, but it can't do it with sane armor.

Hm right... forgot Dire and Mauler.
But still none of them is as agile as the Sleipnir

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 10:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

Hm right... forgot Dire and Mauler.
But still none of them is as agile as the Sleipnir

Of them, only the two Clan options and the Mauler are outright worse, though. The Anni and Fafnir both have armor quirks and the capacity to fit more weapons to them to supplement the LB-X.

The DWF can fit bigger payloads than LB40-X, though, and both it and the KDK-3 can do bigger, longer-ranged dakka, so it evens out.

The CP-S is not a boogeyman, stop trying to turn it into one.

[panzer1b]

Honestly, 90% of people that die exceptionally quickly did it because of their own mistake, and that mistake being exposing urself to a firing line. It is almost NEVER a good idea to engage more then 1v2 (the exception is when both mechs are super damaged or you need to sacrifice yourself to sto a cap or so), and honestly you should be striving to engage in situations where only 1 enemy is capable of hitting you at any time, preferably with 1-2 allied mechs beside you.

I would support a very minor TTK increase, but i still believe that no mech should be able to expose to 4+ mechs and last more then a few seconds tops, it is up to the pilot to avoid such situations and make the enemy walk into their own firing lines, not make a massive punishing move like exposing for 5+ seconds to a full lance survivable and totally ok. People will never learn if mistakes as basic as dont walk infront of half the enemy team alone somethign you can just walk away from, and any sort of tactics will go out teh door, just charge straight in with as much DPS as yoiu can get and spam.

That and increasing armor by much will result in even less build variety, everyone will just swap to dakka since PPFLD will become much less practical. Right now (despite what half the forums keep screaming) i see that the game is relatively balanced and that most playstyles work well. There are some mechs (cough...MCII) that dominate the battlefield, and there are some mechs that you might as well never buy cause they suck or are so niche that they wont do well in 90% of games, but with a handful of exceptions everything from dakka to vomit, brawling, and even missile spam works (only playstyle ive personally been unable to make work recently is pure SRMs, but thats prolly cause of the artemis nerf that rendered their spread so high you can end up dealing 1000 dmg and its but 2 kills).

[Antares102]

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

The CP-S is not a boogeyman, stop trying to turn it into one.

I said its the most agile one and this is true.
While Fafnir with ECM and armor quirks is a good LBX40 mech as well
Of the available LBX40 mechs I see nobody break 1000 damage as often as the Sleipner simply because you actually have a chance to retreat around a corner with it without taking to much return fire.
Ask Shaix and Kakos Kolos about the Sleipnir

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 11:32 AM.

[JediPanther]

high double and Triple digit alphas are becoming more and more common. PoWeeR CreeeEeeeEEEEPPPPP.

[Y E O N N E]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

I said its the most agile one and this is true.

There's an underlying implication there, though, and given the original post I responded to (which talked about it having too much DPS...which is untrue) the implication is that you want it nerfed because you think it's too good.

I disagree with that implication.

Quote

While Fafnir with ECM and armor quirks is a good LBX40 mech as well
Of the available LBX40 mechs I see nobody break 1000 damage as often as the Sleipner simply because you actually have a chance to retreat around a corner with it without taking to much return fire.

None of them crack 1000 with regularity in the games I play. That honor usually goes to the MCII-B or the whatever the well-played LRM or MRM boat is.

Quote

Ask Shaix and Kakos Kolos about the Sleipnir

Don't need to, I hang out with plenty of high level players (i.e. ASH, Bows3r, Navid A1, etc.). They agree the CP-S is good, but I haven't ever heard any of them say or imply anything about it being too good.

[Antares102]

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Don't need to, I hang out with plenty of high level players (i.e. ASH, Bows3r, Navid A1, etc.). They agree the CP-S is good, but I haven't ever heard any of them say or imply anything about it being too good.

Nah, It's not too good. It has its drawback which is speed.
About the nerfing thing. It was already nerfed recently after all.

Still I guess PGI will do something about the LBX40 sustained DPS (at good ranges)
as soon as we have a 80t clan mech that can mount it like Phoenix Hawk IIC assuming they make 2x ballistic slot out of the UAC10 each side.
The Phoenix Hawk IIC should still have good agility and it solved the biggest drawback of the Sleipnir which is speed.

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 12:29 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

The KDK-3 had speed on the CP-S and they nerfed its agility to compensate. The same fate awaits the PHX-IIC if it ends up overly powerful. I don't think that will happen, though, either because PGI will not inflate those hardpoints after what happened when they inflated the KDK-3 or because it is simply squishy. And it is squishy.

[tutzdes]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

as soon as we have a 80t clan mech that can mount it like Phoenix Hawk IIC assuming they make 2x ballistic slot out of the UAC10 each side.
The Phoenix Hawk IIC should still have good agility and it solved the biggest drawback of the Sleipnir which is speed.

Anything that can mount too good of a setup on good hardpoints gets Night Gyr treatment. If the mech in question is a Clan battlemech (non-omni) this gets even more prominent. Compare agility of Warhawk and MAD IIC for instance (this with meh arm mounts on MAD).

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

The KDK-3 had speed on the CP-S and they nerfed its agility to compensate. The same fate awaits the PHX-IIC if it ends up overly powerful. I don't think that will happen, though, either because PGI will not inflate those hardpoints after what happened when they inflated the KDK-3 or because it is simply squishy. And it is squishy.

Yeah, like that.

[Acersecomic]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Ok so you are more or less critizising the cooldown and high alpha.
But what would be the right values in your opinion?

Cooldowns themselves are fine. Pauses and breaks make things feel dynamic and active.
Damage numbers is what could use tweaks, lower numbers would result in longer ttks, more chances to retreat and relocate.
Fights degenerated into popping and peaking because alphas and dps are so big it is often a suicide, thus people peak, trade alphas, and hide. Lower damage values and only damage values would give people confidence to get out there and fight, trade, push, make bold moves without being punished with a death when your team fails to grow testicles or is just slow to react, or worse yet, passive and static. Another thing that might come of it is people focusing components more to cripple enemies through the remainder of the fight instead of having such alphas and dps you can just CT anyone in a single engagement.

[justcallme A S H]

Abisha, on 26 January 2019 - 04:21 AM, said:

I don't know it feels like the DPS is to high in this game mechs die far to quick
they should add 50% more armor to all mechs this is about tatics not who have the first alpha strike

MWO is a FPS. There is no twitch/CS:GO type killing going on.

TTK is perfectly fine and for a FPS, is increadibly high. In fact it is quite high now compared to past times / history of the game.

I would suggest upskilling yourself.

If you learn to torso twist, make better in game decisions with movement and map awareness - you will find it's nothing like that.

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Less DPS doesn't magically make it more tactical. Being good at positioning, timing, and damage mitigation does.

Also, the CP-S has no more DPS with quad LB10-X than any other 'Mech with quad LB10-X.

Yep. And anything carrying it is slow, does spread damage etc etc.

So many cons as there are pros. Thus here we have a tactical FPS.

[Curccu]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Of course it does not have more DPS than other quad LBX10 but it has the highest agility of all quad LBX mechs (of which there are only 4 anyway) and thus it performs the best.

ANH-1X is pretty damn good (LB10-X -10% cd quirk)+ enough tonnage for a punch of lazors

[Y E O N N E]

Curccu, on 26 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

ANH-1X is pretty damn good (LB10-X -10% cd quirk)+ enough tonnage for a punch of lazors

Or a snub for 50 splat.

[crazytimes]

A fully skilled assault mech can take 7-800 damage between armour and structure if it is spread everywhere.

The same mech, running an IS XL, could potentially take <100 from the right angle, ie rear side torso, and die. Quick deaths are usually the result of accurate shooting, rather than huge DPS.

[FupDup]

I typically consider dual HGR or Gauss vomit assaults to be a much larger threat than LBX spam, mostly because they deal very high precision damage at mid ranges instead of a wide spray that spreads over the whole target outside of fairly close ranges.

[lobsterhierarchy]

Ask yourself:

1. Am I torso twisting to spread damage?

2. Am I using cover and weapons placement in a way to minimize return fire and block as many incoming shooting lanes as possible?

3. Am I Leeroy Jenkinsing a firing line of 3+ mechs on my own? Perhaps I should force uneven matchups in my favor.


You’ll be amazed what torso twisting and front loading armor can do. Unless you are facing a 12 man of pure 99% players, the TTK isn’t bad. Focusing targets should increase your TTK per design (derp).

[Prototelis]

Abisha, on 26 January 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

it's wrong you can see that most matches ends with 2/12 4/12 this is do to massive dps

NO. This is how YOLO (you only live once) games work.

Imagine for a second that each team has two bars. One of these bars represents health, the other represents firepower. As the health bar is depleted (loss of mechs or equipment) the firepower bar also goes down. The relationship between the two is linear.

The more health you lose, the more firepower you lose.

In other words, the more mechs you lose the less of a chance you have to fight back or win. In this community it is called "snowballing."

Most matches end in 12-2, 12-1, etc because that is how the game works. It's always going to work with way with one life to live, no matter the speed of the game.

Also, this is ONE OF THE SLOWEST playing FPS games out there. One thing I think many people don't understand is that fast reaction times translate just as well to slow games as they do fast ones.


The high level players I've played against all have faster reaction times than I do, they line up shots faster than I do, they are more accurate than I am. I understand why this is frustrating for you. It pisses me off when I work to isolate someone at ASH's level and they still ******* beat the breaks off me. Unlike you, that doesn't mean I don't stop trying.

The thing is, the more you advocate for slowing the game down, making everything weak, etc the bigger the ALREADY HUGE GAP between someone like me (strong intermediate level player) and ASH (top level player) becomes. Now I can't even beat him by catching him off guard. My water hose made him a little wet, but he's going to turn around and ******* nerf dart me and three other people to death for the aforementioned reasons.

TTK is one aspect of the game I think, that on average, is pretty much in the right place. It takes a painfully long amount of time to kill someone who soaks properly, but big mistakes are still quickly punished. You can catch someone strong off guard and come out on top, despite the skill disparity, but conversely that person is still going to **** you over 9 out of 10 times in a "fair" 1v1. That's how it should be.

Edited by Prototelis, 26 January 2019 - 05:02 PM.