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Stuck In Tier 5


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#101 TrowaBarton

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:09 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 19 January 2020 - 07:23 PM, said:


Just some questions... How well do you know the maps? For instance, do you know what "Death Valley" is in Rubellite and NOT to go there especially as a slow Assault? Do you use the D4 platform on Mining, or the opposite side if you have JJs and are fast enough to get there? Do you know about the C4 crashed dropship area in Hibernal that offers a nice power-position?

The mid/long range loadouts that you bring work very well when you know the maps and specific parts of it.


I know the maps pretty well. I know you go against the mountain in the Forrest colony map. I know you avoid the open water in river city. I didn't know about the dropship in hibernal though.

#102 TrowaBarton

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:08 PM

Well I just had a match where I scored close to 1000 damage. I just used an LRM 40, a RAC2 and and RAC5 and just keep hitting the enemy with one of those. I started playing the game as an LRM boat with backup weapons and moved to being a Rotary person, so it probably makes sense for me. I could comfortably do 1000 damage like this and get some momentum moving up I think. My King Crab doesn't even have velocity or missile crit buffs yet. None of the Weapons nodes is filled for this much damage. It's pretty insane. It wasn't even a necessarily well called game. I'm hoping this works pretty consistently now and it wasn't just one match. I saw another person filling up their king crab with heavy machineguns and MRM's and they mostly just walked through targets with it

#103 Vxheous

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:14 PM

View PostTrowaBarton, on 20 January 2020 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well I just had a match where I scored close to 1000 damage. I just used an LRM 40, a RAC2 and and RAC5 and just keep hitting the enemy with one of those. I started playing the game as an LRM boat with backup weapons and moved to being a Rotary person, so it probably makes sense for me. I could comfortably do 1000 damage like this and get some momentum moving up I think. My King Crab doesn't even have velocity or missile crit buffs yet. None of the Weapons nodes is filled for this much damage. It's pretty insane. It wasn't even a necessarily well called game. I'm hoping this works pretty consistently now and it wasn't just one match. I saw another person filling up their king crab with heavy machineguns and MRM's and they mostly just walked through targets with it


Honestly, I think you should just enjoy playing and not worry about being "stuck in Tier 5". We've given you lots of suggestions, including properly optimized builds, but you continue to revert to these bracket builds (which is fine, play the way you like). The thing with your bracket builds is, if you actually climb out of Tier 4/5, and into Tier 3, you're going to hit a brick wall of reality when your build no longer works, but you haven't spent the time to develop better skills over the course of your climb out of Tier 4/5.

Edited by Vxheous, 20 January 2020 - 07:14 PM.


#104 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:24 PM

View PostTrowaBarton, on 20 January 2020 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well I just had a match where I scored close to 1000 damage. I just used an LRM 40, a RAC2 and and RAC5 and just keep hitting the enemy with one of those. I started playing the game as an LRM boat with backup weapons and moved to being a Rotary person, so it probably makes sense for me...........................


It seems like you're having fun so don't worry about anything else. But if you want to have consistently good games across all tiers, listen to people like Vxheous. Consider what you've just admitted to. You did close to 1000 damage in one game. How many bad games have you had?

#105 Kroete

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:11 AM

View PostTrowaBarton, on 19 January 2020 - 02:42 PM, said:

I should try boated quick damage builds like this more as I think that's the only thing I haven't tried. I'm doing the other things though strategy wise, because some of my builds are strictly sub 300m and I have to play completely different for those builds than my builds that are 500m. I have games where I go off from this strategy, but I know this is the correct way

Ranges over 500m are more for sniping, most fights are from 500m to 50m.
You can mix weapons, even more then 2, but they should have some synergy, like having the same firerate for better twisting and poking or the same velocitys if you need to lead your shots.

About matchscore, damage is not all.
All the little things add together, here a spotting assist, there a flank and run and there some lance in formation, add a strike or well placed uav(spotting, counter ecm, ...) and maybe some ams and you will get more ms. If you see an open section remove it to increase win chance (less enemy weapons or oneleg=dead) and get some components destroyed for your matchscore.
And if you see your team will lose, use override and give them as much as you can...

#106 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 04:29 AM

View PostTrowaBarton, on 20 January 2020 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well I just had a match where I scored close to 1000 damage. I just used an LRM 40, a RAC2 and and RAC5 and just keep hitting the enemy with one of those. I started playing the game as an LRM boat with backup weapons and moved to being a Rotary person, so it probably makes sense for me. I could comfortably do 1000 damage like this and get some momentum moving up I think. My King Crab doesn't even have velocity or missile crit buffs yet. None of the Weapons nodes is filled for this much damage. It's pretty insane. It wasn't even a necessarily well called game. I'm hoping this works pretty consistently now and it wasn't just one match. I saw another person filling up their king crab with heavy machineguns and MRM's and they mostly just walked through targets with it



well.. here's the short version of an advice well meant:

the above config ..
don't.


maybe it worked for you that once, but how often did it not? and in higher tiers, it will not work. (nearly) ever. it's just a bad build and people -will- take advantage of it there.
have a look around for good builds on grim or sth, ask people, but don't run the above. feel free to ignore this if you have fun in that thing the 1 out of 50 times it 'works', but here's the thing:
why not drive something that works 50 out of 50 times and have fun with that?

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 21 January 2020 - 04:32 AM.


#107 RickySpanish

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 06:45 AM

What's funny is I was in a match with Trowa on my side (so I knew it wasn't him) last night on HPG and I dropped a KGC with similar wonky weapons more or less single handidly with my Assassin. Poor pilot couldn't bring those weapons up quick enough. We even had RWTumbleweed on our team but wouldn't you know it, he dc'd and saved us from what I imagine would have been repeated calls to take theta back. By the way, T4 is brutal, I fully appreciate how players can get "stuck" there especially if they follow some of the more complex tactics that require a team that are played at higher tiers. People just do not press the advantage when one is presented to them. In T1 & 2 it's every man for himself *sometimes*, in T4 it's all of the time.

#108 TrowaBarton

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 11:35 AM

Hey, played a few more games. I know that this build won't work in the higher tiers, but my match scores in Tier 5 have been doing pretty well. I got 600 damage on a loss (I think i sent a uav too and did some team points) and PSR went up. Other matches have been 500 damage, one close to 700 damage. If I get careless its a lot lower. One of the last game I got 4 kills, 2 directly from the rotary setup alone. My last game I got a MS of nearly 600, 5 kills and took out the last madcat (obviusly softened up already) with rotaries at range. This was playing defensively, but I think it's working. I'll need to switch away from LRMS next when the field gets competitive and use the kinds of builds people are suggesting here, but so far this setup seems to work for tier 5.

Like some have pointed out, there is no consistency toward whether there a good players from one game to another in this tier. One game you got somebody like RWTumbleweed that knows the board and is decent at calling. Another it's just random single battles while the other team concentrates on a single mech at a time and wins pretty quickly.

I seem to have found a build that I can use to get the damage scores up even on loss games when I can't count on the team like at all, so I'll probably use it until I get up tiers, then switch to MRM's as opponents get better. I mean I tried using tactics in this tier and they just don't work consistently. I never know if I'm only isolating 1 enemy mech or 2 or i'm going to isolate 1 mech and then a light mech swings by and I'm fighting a losing battle with 2 mechs because the person that was there a second ago ran off someplace else. There is not team tactics from one game to another.

This is completely different than faction play which is always extremely punishing on angles and choices. But then the quality of the team is typically always higher, but ofc anybody with a drop deck can play. Even on losing faction matches people generally don't disconnect or suicide. They usually can hit things and move, but there are a lot of good players in the tiers as well that create new accounts to play there or just people that know what they are doing like the people that have posted on this thread, just a bit harder to find. I will report back when I make some progress. Hopefully this will be helpful to other people as well some day. People are probably learning a few map tips already

Edited by TrowaBarton, 21 January 2020 - 11:49 AM.


#109 RickySpanish

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 01:18 PM

If it gets your PSR up then go for it, you'll naturally switch builds and tactics as you progress through the tiers... Assuming the game remains active! Adopting "pro" builds in a metagame that doesn't necessarily favour them isn't a good idea if you aren't well practiced with those builds. There are some highly rated brawler builds on Grimmechs such as the Grinner and Assassins, those won't do you any favoura in tiers where players don't play aggressively enough if you aren't prepared to make your own push - and retreat.

#110 thievingmagpi

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:07 PM

good to hear you're sticking with it and taking some of the advice to heart.

I know that a lot of teammates are really, really passive and it's frustrating. It has a weird run-off effect where it also further encourages you to be passive and bring passive weapons, because why poke a position if no one else is and you're dumping alphas into the enemy will your team sits back doing nothing? It's disheartening that's for sure.

But, in the end, over a period of time you'll be rewarded for it. Your skills will improve and you're cbills/gxp etc payouts will be higher.

#111 killzone1

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:42 AM

Honestly, this game is a LOT better in tier 5. I've been playing about 3 weeks and made it to tier 2. The problem with the upper tiers is the game is just not fun. It becomes more a game of hide and seek, poke out of this corner, pop this guy with lasers, hide again. Pretty boring if you ask me. At least in the lower tiers you could do some real fighting. It's just a different game and not a good one. Just because these strats are used by the skilled players and they work, doesn't make it fun.

#112 -Winter

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:18 AM

So 2 schools of thought.

1.) Listen to Vx... seriously just do it, play the meta builds, do boat loads of dmg, survive, and win.

2.) Ignore the WC and better players, "have fun" continue to play bracket builds etc.

The question you have to ask is what is fun to you. Winning = Fun to me. Playing off meta builds getting farmed by better builds is not.

Playing low tiers w/ sub 500dmg players consistently dieing within 2 min is not fun.

Sitting at Drop w/ LRM handicap to get dmg numbers is not fun.

To each his own.

Edited by Winter VII, 22 January 2020 - 07:34 AM.


#113 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:18 AM

View Postkillzone1, on 22 January 2020 - 06:42 AM, said:

Honestly, this game is a LOT better in tier 5. I've been playing about 3 weeks and made it to tier 2. The problem with the upper tiers is the game is just not fun. It becomes more a game of hide and seek, poke out of this corner, pop this guy with lasers, hide again. Pretty boring if you ask me. At least in the lower tiers you could do some real fighting. It's just a different game and not a good one. Just because these strats are used by the skilled players and they work, doesn't make it fun.


I disagree, I started an alt up and now have my ten games this season so I show up on the scoreboards. I've been playing an Assassin 23. I spent a couple of games floundering around wondering why nobody took the initiative for plays I was creating - lack of voice comms for cadets is absolutely idiotic by the way, well done PGI. But once I realised that people are generally *awful* at lower tiers I started doing better, to the point where it was actually rather boring for me. A couple of games I ran out of ammo, because my team were that ineffective at dealing damage. In another, I spent the game with a cherry red CT after a Fafnir nailed my back with heavy gauss at the start, and I still got 4 kills (2 solo, 2 mdd). In fact a little over four kills for each death is my average now. I, personally, don't find that particularly fun although seeing the one cadet in game with the highest match score is amusing. I'd go back to Rickyspanish but I am actually dying (figuratively speaking, it's actually hard to do at lower tiers) to find out what a Heavy PPC Grasshopper does to these guys.

#114 killzone1

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 09:39 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 22 January 2020 - 07:18 AM, said:

I disagree, I started an alt up and now have my ten games this season so I show up on the scoreboards. I've been playing an Assassin 23. I spent a couple of games floundering around wondering why nobody took the initiative for plays I was creating - lack of voice comms for cadets is absolutely idiotic by the way, well done PGI. But once I realised that people are generally *awful* at lower tiers I started doing better, to the point where it was actually rather boring for me. A couple of games I ran out of ammo, because my team were that ineffective at dealing damage. In another, I spent the game with a cherry red CT after a Fafnir nailed my back with heavy gauss at the start, and I still got 4 kills (2 solo, 2 mdd). In fact a little over four kills for each death is my average now. I, personally, don't find that particularly fun although seeing the one cadet in game with the highest match score is amusing. I'd go back to Rickyspanish but I am actually dying (figuratively speaking, it's actually hard to do at lower tiers) to find out what a Heavy PPC Grasshopper does to these guys.


I did have had a few boring games like that, but I wouldn't say too many went down that way. Maybe just the tier 5 games, but I only lasted in tier 5 for a day. The biggest difference is you're forced into certain builds in the upper tiers. You can't get away with experimentation and playing crappy mechs in the advanced tiers. Hell, so few people even play assaults that I even had a few games with almost all lights/mediums and a couple of heavies. It's all about peck and poke and using only precision aim-able weapons.

It's almost like a different game and I can see it pushing players away if you don't like that play style. Sure it's nice to win, but win or lose, having fun is the reason to play any game. Poke and peek is more like whack a mole and so far I'm not really finding it fun. I'll give is a little more time, but it was a profound change in the dynamics of the game, player quality notwithstanding.

#115 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:31 AM

Yeah there is a restriction on builds to a degree, but talking strictly about QuickPlay, I don't think that the average upper tier game is all that stringent on build choices. There are still plenty of builds using pretty much every weapon system on quite a few 'Mechs that work. Some may not be optimal, but they're very playable. What irks me most about the game is that trying a new 'Mech puts you at a skill point disadvantage, which takes a long time to build out of if you don't want to spend (or can't) mc or gxp.

#116 justcallme A S H

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:46 PM

View PostWinter VII, on 22 January 2020 - 07:18 AM, said:

So 2 schools of thought.

1.) Listen to Vx... seriously just do it, play the meta builds, do boat loads of dmg, survive, and win.

2.) Ignore the WC and better players, "have fun" continue to play bracket builds etc.

The question you have to ask is what is fun to you. Winning = Fun to me. Playing off meta builds getting farmed by better builds is not.

Playing low tiers w/ sub 500dmg players consistently dieing within 2 min is not fun.

Sitting at Drop w/ LRM handicap to get dmg numbers is not fun.

To each his own.


You get it.

Well done.

For a new player, you will go far.

You want to learn. You are willing to listen. Most of all, you are learning who the PRIME-misinformation givers are on this forum.

#117 killzone1

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:08 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 22 January 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

Yeah there is a restriction on builds to a degree, but talking strictly about QuickPlay, I don't think that the average upper tier game is all that stringent on build choices. There are still plenty of builds using pretty much every weapon system on quite a few 'Mechs that work. Some may not be optimal, but they're very playable. What irks me most about the game is that trying a new 'Mech puts you at a skill point disadvantage, which takes a long time to build out of if you don't want to spend (or can't) mc or gxp.


Yeah, leveling up mechs seems to be a big handicap in tier2+. Fortunately I leveled up most of my mechs before I hit that. I started an alt about 3 days ago and so far got him to tier 3. I got 2 mechs leveled up and working on a third now. Tier 3 seems to be the sweet spot for generally better teams and still fun play style. So far none of those boring games and i'm not seeing any cadets show up in the games.

#118 Horseman

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 08:54 AM

View Postkillzone1, on 22 January 2020 - 06:42 AM, said:

The problem with the upper tiers is the game is just not fun. It becomes more a game of hide and seek, poke out of this corner, pop this guy with lasers, hide again.
Depends on the mech you're piloting. There's a chassis for just about anything.

Quote

At least in the lower tiers you could do some real fighting.
And you still can in Tier 1. The only real difference is that you can't rambo forward alone without the enemy responding - you do it with other mechs on your side or engage isolated mechs and you can have your brawl just fine.
"Real fighting" isn't about charging forward like a drunken berserker, it's about being selective as to when and where you engage.

Quote

Just because these strats are used by the skilled players and they work, doesn't make it fun.
Losing because you were playing with one hand tied behind your back isn't fun either.

Edited by Horseman, 24 January 2020 - 08:56 AM.


#119 Vadhalla

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 05:32 AM

Oh why, would want to leave a happy place.

I'd rather be king of potatoes, wait you stats are better than mine.

Dam stuck in T5 universe too.

MWO Tiers is just a gauge on how many games you played (And being a higher tier by that definition does not always equate playing with better players)

As the people said, just enjoy the game.

If you enjoy it you just get better at it just like anything you apply in real life





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