21 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

http://www.sarna.net...mpact_Heat_Sink

Compact Heat Sinks are an IS tech (experimental in 3058), they take up 1 slot, dissipate like a double hs, but weigh 1.5 tons.

Basically, based on ingame stats:
Slots: 1
Dissipation: 0.22 (same as DHS)
tons: 1.5

The problem is basically, many IS 90-100 ton assaults can't bring a hotter weapons payload because you run out of slots to put in DHS before you run out of tonnage. If we add CHS to the game, IS assaults will have a better build option than cramming dual heavy gauss into everything.

Edited by Nightbird, 26 January 2019 - 12:50 PM.

[Antares102]

If this was in the game what would be the reason to use a normal IS DHS?
That 0.5 additional heat cap? I think not.
It would just make normal IS DHS obsolete.

Furthermore if it was in the game what does clan get in return?
Or will IS just get a planket heat nerf of all its weapons.
After all its not just assaults that would benefit from this new equipment.

Still more equipment on either side would be better though.

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 01:03 PM.

[FupDup]

Compact Sinks in BT have the dissipation of SHS, not DHS. Also they take up 0.5 slots each. Thus, a pair of CHS take up 1 slot, weigh 3 tons, and dissipate the same as 1 DHS.

Also you're gonna run out of tonnage really, really fast when using them unless you're boating nothing but medium lasers on an assault mech. And even then you might still run out of weight before slots.

They are useless in BT and would be useless in MWO unless they did actually get stronger than SHS dissipation.

Edited by FupDup, 26 January 2019 - 01:15 PM.

[Zacharias McLeod]

FupDup was faster.

[Nightbird]

Ah nevermind then dual heavy gauss it is

[BrunoSSace]

Boom there it is.

[Spheroid]

I guess its an acceptable idea. You would need to proof against meta abuse. I mean a 2x LLAS 6x ermlas with 22 DHS could mutate into something with 27+CHS. I am more worried about penta and hex ER laser drills. I guess those would be held in check by XLs?

Edited by Spheroid, 26 January 2019 - 03:23 PM.

[FupDup]

Another thing I thought of...

MWO's way of handling heatsinks would cause problems with sub-250 engines equipped with CHS. Your first 10 sinks are supposed to be considered weightless. MWO subtracts the weight of your external SHS/DHS from the engine weight. Since CHS are heavier than either existing heatsink type, sub-250 engines with CHS in MWO would be considerably heavier in tonnage than they're supposed to be (and we all know how much PGI likes to be a stickler with tonnage and slots).

[TheArisen]

I wish they were as you say in the OP but essentially CHS are not as cool as they could be.

[MrXanthios]

IS DHS 2 slots. Boom, problems solved.

[ShiverMeRivets]

I can’t understand why aren’t we allowed to mix single and double heat sinks. Let the upgrade option determine the type of heat sinks that come built into the engine, and everything else you slot may be either.

And don’t give me the usual “PGI can’t code” and “battletech lore” answers, both are nonsense.

[PhilTKaswahl]

Funnily enough, lore actually does support mixing with Reunification War-era Prototype Double Heatsinks that were functionally identical to the later Star League-era Double Heatsinks but could be mixed with SHS.

Obviously, the setting needs to go back in time. Unfortunately for Clan players, their factions get replaced by historical Periphery nations. (Taurian Talos and Toro when, PGI?)

[MechaBattler]

You'd have to break with the actual lore stats to make them useful.. Perhaps dissipation that is between singles and doubles. So you have a little more than singles at least with the cap staying the same. Perhaps throw in the ability to mix CHS with single heatsinks. Just as an added filler for when you do have the extra weight, but not enough to boat them. Then maybe they'd get some utility.

Edited by MechaBattler, 28 January 2019 - 11:42 AM.

[Nightbird]

There's pretty much no chance for the Lore stats to be tweaked hard enough to be useful...

Can a moderator lock this thread?

[Bombast]

PhilTKaswahl, on 28 January 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

Funnily enough, lore actually does support mixing with Reunification War-era Prototype Double Heatsinks that were functionally identical to the later Star League-era Double Heatsinks but could be mixed with SHS.

Prototype DHS can't be slotted into engines. Is bad.

[Grus]

As soon as clans get XXL's then sure.

[Shadowomega1]

Grus, on 28 January 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

As soon as clans get XXL's then sure.

I wouldn't touch that with any build as those clan mechs would go up like an IS XL, while generating more heat then normal.

[Khobai]

if clan tech isnt meant to be better than IS tech then IS heatsinks should be better than clan heatsinks for the simple fact that they cost more crit slots. higher cost = better.

PGI cant say they want clan and IS tech to be equal then continue to give clans better DHS. it doesnt work that way.

so no we dont need compact heatsinks. we just need PGI to be friggin consistent with equalizing Clan and IS tech.

its the same problem with CXL vs ISXL. ISXL should survive side torso destruction (and LFE and STD engines should be significantly buffed). IS and Clan still arnt balanced properly because PGI didnt even balance the fundamentals: engines, heatsinks, and armor/structure.

Edited by Khobai, 28 January 2019 - 02:14 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

There isn't a problem with IS DHS or how many they can carry. IS weapons are much cooler than Clan weapons, so much so that you just don't need as many DHS to have equivalency between IS and Clan. Remember PGI use actual spreadsheets to determine balance and they can actually see that data showing Clan Heavy Mech A with 22 DHS vs IS Heavy Mech B with 18 DHS outputing the same damage and DPS over a range of 5-10 mins. Most everyone else on the other hand just seems to not consider anything else other than 22 begin a bigger number than 18 so it must be better and that life is so unfair for all the underpowered IS mechs. <sigh>. One day I hope that the majority of people will start looking at all the factors instead of a few obvious ones, but I am not holding my breath for that day to come.

[Spheroid]

Angel of Annihilation, on 28 January 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

There isn't a problem with IS DHS or how many they can carry. IS weapons are much cooler than Clan weapons, so much so that you just don't need as many DHS to have equivalency between IS and Clan.

What is your equivalent to a pulse Ebon? A heavier, slower mech like the Black Knight with less range for equivalent sustainable dps? The higher heat cap is very useful for enabling the large initial alphas which most combat exhibits.

Where are you getting that all Clan weapons are hot? What do you want to trade cLPLAS laser with? Where is the I.S. Warhawk Prime equivalent? It can sling PPC all day long.