58 replies to this topic

[Grus]

It's not a bug. It's a feature...

Edited by Grus, 28 January 2019 - 02:53 PM.

[R Valentine]

Bud Crue, on 28 January 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:

Whelp, since Chris I believe is on record saying it doesn’t exist (i.e. there is no bug according to PGI), I don’t think it will get fixed. I mean, I know PGI often breaks what isn’t broke, but fixing something they think doesn’t exist would be unprecedented I think. Now if you want to place bets on the next weapon system that Chris decides to randomly nerf, then by all means lets go. That sort of thing is inevitable.

You can sing bugs from the rooftops, but PGI would rather be in denial than fix them. This "bug" has been out since before RACs were even a thing. Those of you holding your breath for them to fix it now... XD

[Chuckie]

Game is over 6 years old... and it's always had balance issues and its always still here

So nope doubt one or even two or three ( or 4 maybe 5 or 6 ) flaws will stop people from playing.

I have been to busy to play ANY games for 3 years.. what game did I come back too when I finally had time.. ??? MWO.

Kiran Yagami, on 28 January 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

You can sing bugs from the rooftops, but PGI would rather be in denial than fix them. This "bug" has been out since before RACs were even a thing. Those of you holding your breath for them to fix it now... XD

From what I see they not only fix bugs they reboot the whole game every so often.. The game has been one big bug since the Alpha..

But a game still a ball to play at its worst, and a almost perfect game when its at its best.

[Daggett]

Just tried it in testing grounds, and boy this is broken as hell.

RAC2's are already borderline OP against average QP opponents, so this better be fixed quickly before it get's exploited like there's no tomorrow...

[BrunoSSace]

I watched this and thought I been seeing alot more racs around. Now when I see them I don't know if you are cheating or not.

[LordNothing]

Verilligo, on 28 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

I don't think the jam roll is even the biggest issue here. The issue is that there seems to be a way of feathering the fire button that causes the gun to fire a bullet sooner than it's supposed to. The weapon itself is supposed to be limited to only firing a bullet X seconds after the previous one fired, or immediately upon reaching full spool. But if you lift off the fire button immediately after firing your bullet at full spool, your gun will start despooling and when you spool back up you'll immediately fire another bullet once you reach full spool again. This means that if you can despool for 0.05s, then all it takes is an input duration of ~0.05s to reach full spool again, firing off a bullet. Humanly, this isn't possible, but you can use the macro to adjust it all you need. The side effect of this is that you're also not being charged jam duration and heat per bullet, only per amount of time that you're fully spooled up.

Simplest solution might just be to force the weapon to wait the X seconds after reaching full spool before firing the first round. It'll delay when the RACs start firing by a small amount, but you can change the spool time to make up for it.

i had assumed the extra damage was due to avoiding the jams and thus allowing the guns to finish the job before the jam. but after watching the side by side comparison in the video again, you can clearly see the torso on the macroed version is gone almost on the same exact frame that the jam occurs on the control test. therefor the jam doesn't play any role whatsoever. thats what i get for theory crafting at 5am.

anyway heating seems to be applied as a function of spool time not a fuction of shots fired, so if you manage to snake by an extra shot it doesnt add anything to the heat. it also doesnt make any sense because firing rounds creates the bulk of the heat, not spinning the motors. ironically i believe this was done to keep people from doing pre-spin macros in order to allow instant firing of the weapon. seems like 50 milliseconds of downspin should be accompanied by 50 milliseconds of upspin and thus heating before the gun can fire, but thats just not happening.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 January 2019 - 05:41 PM.

[LordNothing]

Acersecomic, on 28 January 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

Why not have RACs fired for too long cause weapon/mech suffer overheat damage and weapon destruction if fired for too long, instead of jam chance.

id rather just jam when the bar fills up without a jam roll and give me a few extra shots in exchange. frankly racs just arent good enough to justify self destructive behavior.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

arcana75, on 28 January 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

I want to know the official position. If Fire Control and mouse button timing software are allowed and doing this macro to double DPS is allowed, then I want to know.

Welllll,

The official position from Top Men was that this was all in our imaginations; this wasn't happening because it COULDN'T happen on their servers - anything else was fabricated or client side only, so there's nothing to worry about.

Just like macros don't have any affect on machine guns. That piranha that instantly critted all of your weapons was lucky crit chances, not increased ROF from a macro.

[FupDup]

If they nerf my precious (non-macro) RAC/2 I swear to Kerensky that I will cut someone. I'll do it!

Edited by FupDup, 28 January 2019 - 07:34 PM.

[LordNothing]

Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS, on 28 January 2019 - 07:18 PM, said:

Welllll,

The official position from Top Men was that this was all in our imaginations; this wasn't happening because it COULDN'T happen on their servers - anything else was fabricated or client side only, so there's nothing to worry about.

Just like macros don't have any affect on machine guns. That piranha that instantly critted all of your weapons was lucky crit chances, not increased ROF from a macro.

and the titanic was unsinkable

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 28 January 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

If they nerf my precious (non-macro) RAC/2 I swear to Kerensky that I will cut someone. I'll do it!

i find its a bit on the weak side, so id rather see it buffed. too much spinup time, oddbal jam mechanics (you shouldn't jam, you should shutdown/explode because heat), bursts are too short and you cant even use chain fire with it (like if you chain fire a bunch of racs they should fire at half the rate rather than not at all). even the gau 8 had a few speed settings (ultimately the gau-8 was so op they just locked the firing rate at a moderate setting in later revisions).

Edited by LordNothing, 28 January 2019 - 08:50 PM.

[GeminiWolf]

FupDup, on 28 January 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

If they nerf my precious (non-macro) RAC/2 I swear to Kerensky that I will cut someone. I'll do it!

"Do too the public outcry by the 10 people who post and read the forums, the decision was made to lower the damage output of the RAC 2's. We know this will be met with an outcry as well, however it will only require the staff to modify an XML file, where as attempting to moderate the use of third party macro mods is beyond our capabilties."
There you go FupDup.... get to cuttin!

[FupDup]

GeminiWolf, on 28 January 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

There you go FupDup.... get to cuttin!

[Phoenix 72]

Well, I contacted the support and asked whether this was a bug or not. If it is not, then I would be crazy not to use it. My favourite Mech is a Triple Rac2 Bushwacker X1.

I do quite nice damage with it most of the time, averaging around 600 damage per match, without macro's. Looking forward to raising that by 25 to 40%.

[Dee Eight]

My logitech gaming mouse has three profiles it can be setup with, and macros is something its coded to do also. So you could do the same exploiting without 3rd party software like the fire control macro just by having a good gaming mouse.

[Prototelis]

Macros are fine for dakka spam.

Macros for getting more DPS out of racs/mgs is kinda ******** and I gurantee whatever way they choose to fix it is going to SUCK.

[Daggett]

LordNothing, on 28 January 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

i find its a bit on the weak side, so id rather see it buffed. too much spinup time, oddbal jam mechanics (you shouldn't jam, you should shutdown/explode because heat), bursts are too short and you cant even use chain fire with it (like if you chain fire a bunch of racs they should fire at half the rate rather than not at all).

And yet in real matches the RAC2 shines at least in solo QP, despite it's weaknesses.

Edited by Daggett, 29 January 2019 - 01:28 AM.

[LordNothing]

Daggett, on 29 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

And yet in real matches the RAC2 shines at least in solo QP, despite it's weaknesses.

i do kind of like the rac2. but over a uac2, nah. and unlike the uac2 you cant boat it as well.

on thing the rac does do however is to hold over a std heat sink build as you can boat the sinks and get really long fire duration out of it. a good way to get started, moving on when you can afford dubs.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 January 2019 - 03:11 AM.

[Daggett]

LordNothing, on 29 January 2019 - 02:54 AM, said:

i do kind of like the rac2. but over a uac2, nah. and unlike the uac2 you cant boat it as well.

True, if you boat more than 3 ballistics, UAC2s are probably better. Same may be true for heavily quirked mechs like the Dragon.
But if you only got the hardpoints/weight for three ACs like on the BSW-1X then i highly recommend to test RAC2s vs. UAC2s, you might be surprised.

Edited by Daggett, 29 January 2019 - 03:21 AM.