32 replies to this topic

[Picone]

Sorry if this is a duplicate thread, I did a search but none of the topics seemed particularly current. Is there somewhere we can look at to check out the weapons and how they worked that's actually kept current with patch changes? (Since apparently PGI didn't think that sort of thing was a priority inclusion for UI2.0)

[aniviron]

All the information you're looking for is here, pulled directly from the game's .xml files. It also includes a great mechlab that lets you build mechs without having to select each individual component, and then guess what is in the rest of the mech!

To answer your question: No, the flamer is still terrible. It does less damage than a machine gun, has less than half the range, weighs twice as much, and while it does build heat on your enemy, it builds more heat for you than then. Additionally, heat gain on your opponent is capped at 90%, you can not shut them down with flamer heat. There is no reason to ever use the flamer in this game when there are medium lasers that do everything much better for the same tonnage and hardpoint type. Russ promised flamer buffs on twitter when the Firestarters were being released, but nothing ever came of that.

[Picone]

Aah, found it here
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

I use smurfy quite a bit but never noticed that tab, thanks.

Also, as far as I can see it doesn't note some of the bizarre behind-the-scenes details such as the 90% cap for the flamer. So it does 1 heat per second to the enemy and you take 1 heat per second for using it? That seems ********. Am I reading that right that the medium laser also does 1 heat per second damage ?

I started using one recently on a Protector and it seemed to be working well - I was noticing enemy mechs I was close-quarters brawling starting to shut down while in combat with me but I pug so its hard to tell whether its the weapon or the player sometimes.

[Daggett]

Picone, on 06 April 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

Also, as far as I can see it doesn't note some of the bizarre behind-the-scenes details such as the 90% cap for the flamer. So it does 1 heat per second to the enemy and you take 1 heat per second for using it? That seems ********. Am I reading that right that the medium laser also does 1 heat per second damage ?

I don't know how much heat the flamer applies to the target (it's hidden somewhere in some old patch notes like most detail information ), but i can tell you something on how it generates heat for the mech using it.

In contrast to smurfy and the game's xml files, the flamer generates not a fixed heat. Heat scales up exponentially up to the point where a single flamer overheats even 24 DHS. This is currently the nail in the flamer's coffin because you can't even fire it continuously. It always overheats you way more than the enemy mech.

I guess it's designed this way together with the 90% cap to prevent keeping enemy mechs shutdown (which is good, no one wants to be removed from the game this way).
But in my opinion those are too much fail-safes. Maybe it would be better to reduce the cap to 50-70% and remove the exponential heat generation.
This way a flamer mech could be useful by keeping enemy mechs hot but without removing the target out of the game by keeping him shutdowned.

BTW, other weapons like lasers do not apply heat to the enemy mech.

Edited by Daggett, 06 April 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[Picone]

Cheers for the help =)

[Trystan Thorne]

The only flamers that work in this game are the people that get angry when they lose.

The other flamers are useless really.

[Buckminster]

I run flamers on all of my Wolverines, but that's more for the lulz of the fact that it looks like it's breathing fire.

[ThatBum42]

Apparently they're useful for blinding your opponent while brawling? Not much else, really. Admittedly, it is pretty cool to have a mech with a flamer in the head slot. Fire-breathing Banshee!

[cSand]

I was running a 2xlpl and 4x flamer QKD 5k for awhile...

basically you would overheat the enemy, then stop and try to get 2 LPL to the cockpit

but more often, the other thing you would do is die mostly

[ThorsMjolnir117]

I run a flamer in a machinegun Spider. Makes hitting me much harder(than usual) when my enemy's windshield is engulfed in flames and I keep jumpjetting around. Plus most people panic and overheat so I can keep them toasty and it is harder to shoot me when they have high heat and I can pew pew pew you to death...

[Marmon Rzohr]

DO NOT USE A FLAMER

That is my very honest and well-meaning advice

[William Slayer]

It's very much a Psychological weapon. As Thors said up above, he blinds his enemy with it. He's not so much looking to over heat them (though the panic weapons fire probably does it for him) as much as to make them flinch in their computer chairs. We learn at a very early age to jump back from fire. "FIRE BAD!" (Thank you Frankenstein) I know that I do.

[Dawnstealer]

I run at least one flamer on all my Firestarters. It's great for ramping up an enemy mech's heat to a point where they can only shoot one weapon or shut down, and when they DO shut down, and immediately start firing again, they shut down again. If you're alone, it's useless, but in tandem with another mech? Especially a brawler or LRM boat? Nasty.

[Turist0AT]

Runing flamers in streaktaro, constant shake and blinding. Makes retaliation impossible for most mechs.

[Reptilizer]

Trystan Thorne, on 06 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

The only flamers that work in this game are the people that get angry when they lose.

The other flamers are useless really.

The usefulness of the specimen described in your first example is at least debatable...

[Shiny and Chrome]

They nerfed the flamer to the point that it will shut the person using it down, but not the opponent. That makes sense....

Edited by Shiny and Chrome, 21 April 2018 - 10:07 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Flamers work but you have to know how to use them. There were too OP and had to be nerfed but I love them.

Take a mech with flamers, a Stormcrow with 8 of them and go to the Desert training map. Look right and there is an Altas. Go over, get in front and flame him.

But this time, watch the rise of the flamer heat and count or use a stopwatch. I thought it was about 6 seconds but I read somewhere it was 4.5 seconds. Until that "cooldown" symbol hits full, THE FLAMERS DO ZERO HEAT TO YOUR MECH. I forgot the time it takes for a flamer to go back to zero, there was a great thread about it somewhere in new player help. But when it goes down 2 seconds worth, you can use it again for two more seconds without adding heat to you.

I have a problem with this because I tend to hold all buttons down when going face to face. You need to remember that flamers cooldown bar, which is like the one on the RAC's. They give no heat until they reach that limit.

So you have to remember that you only have that much flame time (unless you are an MG spider, mine can go for a while).

What you can do now at best is take the other mech to 90%. And this is one reason you need to study the build of that enemy mech. If it is all ballistics, leave it alone. Never, ever try to flame a KDK-3.

For most other builds you have taken the enemy mech to where if he shots one time, he shuts down. Which also harms his CT. Go the test grounds and see that by overheating by doing alphas etc you can kill yourself. So when the enemy mech overheats and shuts down, it hurts itself.

You need to watch him and try to dance away and not be there when he can fire. "The" problem IMO with using Flamers is that on some mechs, carrying them takes away from your firepower thus making it difficult to kill the other mech.

So, look for headshots first. The enemy mech is shut down for two seconds (hmm, I need to find out how long), you can pour you fire into his CT, but a better idea is to study where the heads are. You have a "free" shot. So go for a kill shot.

The next way is to outmaneuver the enemy mech. Flame, shoot, move, shoot, move, flame or whatever you have to do. I've brought down assaults with lights doing this.

But one of the biggest dangers to a "Flamer mech" is the rest of the enemy team. I find this true with brawling. The mech I'm fighting does not kill me, his friend behind me does.

You have to remember that early in the game, an assault mech is never alone. A Flamer mech like an MG/Flamer Spider is a finisher. It's best use is at the end of games.

A great idea with a Flamer mech is to work with a buddy. You shut them down, he kills them. It's best to use your mic but you can follow a brawl based assault or heavy around. He starts fighting, you run from behind and Flame his target.

Always look for a "number or firepower disparity". This game is math base.

Lately, I found a way to live longer when around too many of the enemy. I do not try to shut down and kill an enemy mech, or in other words, to get that kill yourself. Instead, Flame and run. Hit this one for two seconds and this one for two.

The time and a Flamers' cooldown in the most important thing to learn.

[TooDumbToQuit]

HERE is what I want to know about Flamers but no one seems to know.

The best way to do this is with another account and PC. The second is to have a friend who will spend a lot of time testing with you.

I want to know if/how much better is more than one flamer. Let's say one flamer will put mech B into 90% heat in 4 seconds. How long with it take 2? or 4?

What about an enemy mech determines it heats up rate. (I do not think they work on Night Gyr's (right?)

For instance, I'd set up a mech with 20 heats sinks and see the difference between Flaming it or one with 10 heat sinks.

Does the size of the mech matter?

One thing I did find out is that it does not matter where you flame the enemy mech. So now I go for the back of their legs. I stay where they cannot see me. If you get a chance like this, do not shoot anything else, just Flame the enemy mech. It is like what I call the nibble factor. I've found mostly the hard way that a small mech using small lasers can chew your leg off without you noticing. MG fire is noticed more because of its sound.

The same with flaming. A couple of days ago on Frozen City, I should have gotten two more assists (or maybe I did get them). In my dreaded Kit Fox of Fiery Death. I got beside and behind two enemy mechs trading fire with teammates. Both sides were doing the poke back and forth from behind buildings thing.

I flamed two enemy mechs just when they moved to their firing position and started firing. And they shut down in the "open" and were more damaged. I'm not sure the first enemy mech ever knew I was flaming him until the end, I did him 3 times before he was killed. The second one had either/or heard about a flamer mech on comms or was more alert and he noticed me the first time. But his turning to face me when he was in the open got him shot a lot and I shut him one last time and ...ran away.

I left him alive but damaged and I did not take much damage myself. I'm starting to use math. I'm 35 tons and he is 70 toms which equals me running away.

A Falmer is very situational. I did 535 damage that game and 46 the next one in my Spider.

A Flamer (IMO, you should at least two but then I'm mostly a Clanner with lighter Flamers, but you need at least two) on a larger brawling mech is another thing. Now you can shut down and kill other mechs. Again, when I do this I'm mostly killed by one of his teammates.

If you want to see an example then ask and I will post it.

OK, I'm trying to let this be the last thing about using Flamers AND MGs. You (duh) have to be very close to be able to use them. And when you are that close, Friendly Fire becomes an issue.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 22 April 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[Koniving]

Shiny and Chrome, on 21 April 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

They nerfed the flamer to the point that it will shut the person using it down, but not the opponent. That makes sense....

You necro'd a thread from 2014 just to say they nerfed it?

And actually the old flamer was basically producing ZERO heat to the enemy.

Now it's quite a bit better. ....But useless for blinding people.

Old flamers.

New flamers.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Shiny and Chrome, on 21 April 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

They nerfed the flamer to the point that it will shut the person using it down, but not the opponent. That makes sense....

This is my point. And this will give me a reason to make some short videos and show them.

I'm going to make three mechs and take them to the academy. They will have the same amount of heat sinks (19) but the first will have 13 Flamers and the second will have 4 and the last one will just have one.

Look at the time on the Flamer cooldown gauge. I should add that I do not believe that Flamers work on turrets which sucks.

Well, (video coming) firing 13 Flamers **** me down super quick. Is there a limit of 12?

We will now go from 13 down to1 Flamer. And there does seem to a limit now. This was not true in the recent past. Also notice when one flamer is fired, all flamers rise the same heat wise.





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