53 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

InspectorG, on 30 January 2019 - 05:15 PM, said:

But...but...think about the CBILL SINK!!!!

PGI can reduce match earnings a little, to compensate. IMO current C-Bill gain is tad too high, especially with all the 50% C-Bill sales going on.

For most players that's a small sacrifice to not have to deal with the skill tree grind anymore.

[thievingmagpi]

i have lots of mechs i've bought but have never bothered to play because I don't want to skill them up. Some mechs play alright when unskilled, but some are just awful. Lots of mechs sit in my mechbay and I just **** around in testing grounds.

[Khobai]

El Bandito, on 30 January 2019 - 08:17 PM, said:

PGI can reduce match earnings a little, to compensate. IMO current C-Bill gain is tad too high, especially with all the 50% C-Bill sales going on.

For most players that's a small sacrifice to not have to deal with the skill tree grind anymore.

the damage is already done

punishing new players while old players already own hundreds of mechs just hurts new players

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 30 January 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

the damage is already done

punishing new players while old players already own hundreds of mechs just hurts new players

How is the removal of skill tree at the expense of a bit of match earning reduction pushing away new players? Without skill tree it will be easier for newbies to use trial mechs without feeling to disadvantaged against those with C-Bills.

[Khobai]

El Bandito, on 30 January 2019 - 10:39 PM, said:

How is the removal of skill tree at the expense of a bit of match earning reduction pushing away new players? Without skill tree it will be easier for newbies to use trial mechs without feeling to disadvantaged against those with C-Bills.

because getting rid of the skill tree is dumb. the skill tree should be fixed to give players meaningful choices. it shouldnt be removed. skill trees improve games when theyre done correctly. PGI just needs to significantly condense the skill tree so has a smaller number of meaningful choices.

also if you reduce cbill earnings it makes it harder for new players to catch up to veteran players. so thats bad.
nobody is forcing new players to prioritize buying skill nodes over new mechs. they get to choose how to spend their cbills, so even if you got rid of the skill tree, a cbill reduction is still just that... a cbill reduction.

thievingmagpi, on 30 January 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

i have lots of mechs i've bought but have never bothered to play because I don't want to skill them up. Some mechs play alright when unskilled, but some are just awful. Lots of mechs sit in my mechbay and I just **** around in testing grounds.

well a large part of the problem is that some mechs are just bad. or theyre way too similar to other mechs.

PGI has done a really bad job of making each mech a unique experience. the role warfare pillar has always been the weakest of the four pillars.

thats why ive always favored dividing mechs into multiple roles and having role based skill trees. that would diversify mechs in a way the game has never done previously.

Edited by Khobai, 30 January 2019 - 11:00 PM.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 30 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

because getting rid of the skill tree is dumb. the skill tree should be fixed to give players meaningful choices. it shouldnt be removed. skill trees improve games when theyre done correctly. PGI just needs to significantly condense the skill tree so has a smaller number of meaningful choices.

Players already make meaningful choices when they choose their mech variants and loadouts. All this unimaginative skill tree does is to further min-max the available builds.

[Abisha]

justcallme A S H, on 30 January 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

What if I told you I'm a founder and I have none left at all? Because I don't.

And thus your argument is sunk.

So as I said - proof please.

how many mechs have you maxed out?
more then 13 means 1200 SP meaning my science and prove still holds
less or more you are in 20% category but most people sit around 1200 points.

[Abisha]

Prototelis, on 30 January 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Bro you don't even play anymore, no one cares about your opinion.

he still have rights to his own opinion even if he don't play anymore
ever wonder why someone are on the forums of a game? he likely don't like the game in current state but wanna keep a eye if it's changes.

but sure keep bashing it only damage the player-base even more.

[Abisha]

El Bandito, on 30 January 2019 - 11:48 PM, said:

Players already make meaningful choices when they choose their mech variants and loadouts. All this unimaginative skill tree does is to further min-max the available builds.

i don't think the Skill tree even matters that much 1% range per node
good example LRM (longest range) 900+1%=9 meters really it do not matter they do not stack they only add to end value
so even a 10% boost is still laughable like all the nodes gives it's nothing special

[El Bandito]

Abisha, on 31 January 2019 - 12:33 AM, said:

i don't think the Skill tree even matters that much 1% range per node
good example LRM (longest range) 900+1%=9 meters really it do not matter they do not stack they only add to end value
so even a 10% boost is still laughable like all the nodes gives it's nothing special

Except those little bonuses add up. People do not appreciate how good LRM range skill node is until they actually play Faction Play. An unskilled LRM boat is totally different than a LRM boat with +10% range, +12% cooldown, +3.5 second Target Decay, +28% sensor range (which also helps against ECM). Not to mention noticeably lower heat and more ammo.

Cooldown nodes especially works too well with base cooldown quirks on many variants. Which means for quirked mech variants such as the Awesome-8R, that +12% cooldown nodes from skill tree increases its base quirk of +20% to LRM15 cooldown into +32%, which in turn raises its cooldown bonus from a 1/5 into a 1/3. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 January 2019 - 01:17 AM.

[Asym]

CFC Conky, on 30 January 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

Not sure about your idea OP, it's hard enough now to run unskilled mechs against fully tricked out ones, and now you want that disparity to be even greater? At some point, the upgrade cycle should stop so the battle can be more about player skill than simple hardware.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

P.S. Hi Asym, I agree with your point about equipping troops with inferior kit, but you know, lore*...

*Hate that word.

Good to hear from you too!
Ah, a few years of reading about a dozen forums from FPS games, dissecting them in an innovation program to figure out game patterns and you know what, they all say just about the same thing: grinding towards a non combat ready position (which is a vehicle, a personal state of readiness or a game condition) is what keeps me away from investing in this (a multitude of) game...... the metrics are fun first and then rank (because most FPS's are meritocracies....)

So, how could you use the Skill Tree to defeat the negativity of a grinding up progression...........that's simple: make the default condition combat effective and then use the grind to determine skills and show them.... Use the skill tree, notice the name isn't "equipment tree", to enhance "skills" not stuff.......

But, what do I know for sure: you reap only what you sow.........and as the saying goes: garbage in, garbage out... Great games focus of "Fun First, Skill Always..." You woin't learn by being massacred game after game after game..... In fact, many of the prototypes I've surveyed are "intuitive and self learning" games.....the game itself figures out where you come up short and then, adapts itself to "teach you through repetition, those skills you must master....." And, if you can't the game changes the storyline or scenarios for you to have fun with....

[Phyrce]

Abisha, on 30 January 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

what grind? most people have 1200 skill points in the bank and it's not that "new" players join MWO.

I had a hell of a lot more than 1200 (like 8000 or so) and blew through them all and my GXP. Few hundred mechs will do that to you. There are certainly people with SP banked, but not the ones that were equipping multiple mechs with multiple loadouts. I even sold a lot of my redundant mechs from mastery.

[RickySpanish]

From the perspective of a new player, when I returned some time after the XP rework I had no damn clue wtf to do with the new system. It was mental! All those different ways to convert XP, all the different currencies, plus the totally uneven max SP value of 91, plus the sheer number of skill trees and the somewhat confusing nature of the nodes themselves made the whole system hideous. Not only that, but they managed a step backward by having XP and SP stick to individual 'Mechs (I think? God I'm not even sure about that).

Back in the day, waaay back during the game's initial design discussions, PGI set out the idea of role or class based warfare. Players could choose a combat role and level up their skills in that area. This was sidelined in favour of the simpler XP system, and then improved upon somewhat by modules, which were imo rightly scrapped in favour of... This monstrosity we have now. I get the intent of the developers but good God, what a mess.

[Khobai]

yep. ive had friends who wanted to get back into MWO and they just instantly quit when they logged in and there was like six different currencies they had to deal with.