53 replies to this topic

[Wishmast3r]

Since the discussion on the RAC macro cheat is closed, i decided to open a new thread, starting a general disussion about macros.
Since i started playing MWO i was aware that PGI allows macros and that many "high skilled" players are using them.
Kanajashi made a video of the new RAC cheat. And no, i´m not callin it "exploit". Exploit is just a nice way to say cheat. That´s like saying "i didn´t stab my knife in your heart, i just used an exploit between your ribs". That´s ********.
Kanajashi estimates macos should not be used to do things a normal human couldn´t do ... that´s the most stupid thing i´ve ever heard. If you can´t do it without macro ... you can´t do it! If you can do it without macro, but it´s hard, practice for gods sake and become a truly skilled player.
Macros are cheating, that´s why i never used them and never will use them.

PS. I don´t think PGI "allows" macros, i believe they just don´t know how to stop players from using them.

[PhilTKaswahl]

I prefer not to solely because I want to get used to controlling the game based solely on my mechanical input on my hardware, not depend on something you might suddenly find yourself without from an update screwing it up or the game devs eventually deciding to disallow.

[MechWarrior6337262]

In some cases Macros, in my opinion are not, in any way cheating. Take the 6 LB2X/UAC2 Dire Wolf or king Crab, Using a Macro on these builds actually makes the mech worse as the face time is increased by a huge, huge amount. Without it you can shoot & then start torso twisting immediately & spread any incoming fire, with it you have to stare at the enemy the whole time.
Now, I totally admit these cases are few & far between but facts are facts & to say that Macros make builds better is not the reality in all cases. The builds above are for suppression & generally are hard to play & don't do well in the game, hence we don't see them very often on the battlefield using a Macro.
I will also admit that I find the cheat that has been highlighted recently is 100% a cheat & should 100% be addressed by PGI as it increases DPS by a large margin & also reduces the heat build up, again, the cases above DO NOT in any way have the same effect.
Anyone using the cheat with RAC's, MG's or Flamers are pathetic losers that feel the only way they can compete with others is to cheat & that is very sad, they must be very insecure people.
PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS CHEAT!!!! Do not test it anywhere but in a private lobby with others that consent to you using it. I for one will be reporting anyone I suspect to be using it & it will be easy for PGI to see it from their game records due to the amount of clicks recorded, Hopefully they will start banning people as per the Code Of Conduct.
(@ Wishmast3r, this is not aggro at you, just me speaking my mind )

[eminus]

PGI's chainfire/weapons grouping is TERRIBAD and the only way to remedy that is to use firectrl

now don't let PGI's design flaw on RACs affect firectrl. PGI did a TERRIBAD programming/design on RACs

[MW Waldorf Statler]

its a 60 Inch Monitor a Cheating tool ???or a better Mouse ?or better PC ?

[Bud Crue]

Macros (which I have never used, but did try to do once but my old man brain couldn't figure it out) are not the problem. The problem is a bug wherein a certain weapon (in this case RACs) can be made to perform in a manner that is not intended. The use of a macro in this case makes achieving the unintended performance easier, but the problem is still the bug. The macro make exploiting that bug easier. Fix the bug, and the use of the macro becomes just another bit of flavor, the same as it is with say a chain saw multiple AC2 build, for example.

[MechWarrior6337262]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 30 January 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

its a 60 Inch Monitor a Cheating tool ???or a better Mouse ?or better PC ?

That's not the point here I'm afraid. The cheat Wishmast3r is highlighting increases DPS by a very large amount & also lowers the heat generated by the weapons. This is cheating.
Using a bigger monitor etc does none of the above, it doesn't change how the game works & so is not cheating.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 30 January 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

its a 60 Inch Monitor a Cheating tool ???or a better Mouse ?or better PC ?

The fallacy of that reasoning is actually painful - that is like comparing a cars power steering to a Tomtom (gps).

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

This is why we never should have increased the tech level to this point... you wouldn't see this issue with base, Tier 1 technology and classic IS mechs running Single Heatsinks.

Yet another reason why 3025 era is better, less cheese, more heat management, produces better players that don't rely on "cheats" [okay this bit is mostly just in jest, but I do feel if we didn't add all this advanced tech, we'd have a better game.]

Of course, people who use macros, are going to use macro's no matter what, of course top tier players are going to figure out how to bust the game, it's literally what they do.

I can't count the number of times I've been told that it's not cheating [despite the fact sad individuals cannot do what the macro does manually.] It's literally like bringing a turbo controller to a fighting game tournament... if you tried to bring a macro device or program to something like EVO, you'd be DQ'd and laughed out of the room... so I don't understand why we're okay with a turbo button in MWO.

[Dee Eight]

I briefly tried the fire control macro a couple years ago but found on my system at the time, a couple matches of usage and it would start sending the capslock key code at the same time I was firing a macro group, thus turning my microphone on even though I wasn't talking... and everyone on the team got to here bursts of the music I gamed to. So I stopped using it. Plus its not like rapid-chain fire isn't possible without it. If a group is on chain, if you click the mouse rapidly yourself, it will shoot rapidly. Second group with same guns once you've chained thru them and then it'll do it continously just holding one button down. Or if you have an even # of a weapon, say six AC/2s... put three on each group, and then push the second group a quarter second after the first fires and it'll rapid fire between the groups almost perfectly timed to their cooldown of 0.72 seconds. On my new system I have a better gaming mouse and it has its own programmable buttons and I can do macro stuff without a third party program.

[justcallme A S H]

Wishmast3r, on 30 January 2019 - 03:08 AM, said:

Since the discussion on the RAC macro cheat is closed, i decided to open a new thread, starting a general disussion about macros.
Since i started playing MWO i was aware that PGI allows macros and that many "high skilled" players are using them.

And you're basing this on, what, exactly?



Further to that - whats the point of this overall threadm exactly?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

justcallme A S H, on 30 January 2019 - 05:27 AM, said:

And you're basing this on, what, exactly?



Further to that - whats the point of this overall threadm exactly?

if you couldn't figure that out from his initial post, perhaps you should look into your reading comprehension levels, because this thread is pretty self obvious as to what it's about.

[Der Geisterbaer]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 30 January 2019 - 04:32 AM, said:

This is why we never should have increased the tech level to this point... you wouldn't see this issue with base, Tier 1 technology and classic IS mechs running Single Heatsinks.

I'm very confident that this assumption is false just by looking at two tier 1 weapons that exhibit a behavior that is very similar to RACs when using clever enough macros. One has a ramp up bar and the other doesn't and although PGI certainly has attempted to fix the problem for the one with ramp up bar I'm currently not too confident that their fix really does what it claims to do.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 30 January 2019 - 06:47 AM.

[Cyanogene]

If you don't like the rules then don't play the game. You can do nothing about it anyway, the devs make the decisions. And they'll probably get this topic closed.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Der Geisterbaer, on 30 January 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

I'm very confident that this assumption is false just by looking at two tier 1 weapons that exhibit a behavior that is very similar to RACs when using clever enough macros. One has a ramp up bar and the other doesn't and although PGI certainly has attempted to fix the problem for the one with ramp up bar I'm currently not too confident that their fix really does what it claims to do.

you clearly missed the point where I point out I'm being hyperbolic.

[thievingmagpi]

1) macros don't confer any kind of advantage

2) many "high skilled" players in fact do not bother with macros because of the above

3) a macro that enables easier access to an exploit, that is possible without a macro, is not at fault. that's the fault of the exploit.

[El Bandito]

eminus, on 30 January 2019 - 03:32 AM, said:

PGI's chainfire/weapons grouping is TERRIBAD and the only way to remedy that is to use firectrl

Exactly. MWO doesn't have Group Chain Fire--something even the 1997 Mechwarrior 2 had--so I will use macros to fill that gap as I please.

Old MW4 Ranger, on 30 January 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

its a 60 Inch Monitor a Cheating tool ???or a better Mouse ?or better PC ?

Those give advantages, but are not cheats. Same thing with macros. Most of them are quite harmless and offer only 5% more efficiency at most. Meanwhile the RAC2 macro is offering 25-40% more DPS than simply holding down the button and that's just cheating.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 January 2019 - 07:08 AM.

[Vxheous]

Wishmast3r, on 30 January 2019 - 03:08 AM, said:

Since i started playing MWO i was aware that PGI allows macros and that many "high skilled" players are using them.

If you can´t do it without macro ... you can´t do it! If you can do it without macro, but it´s hard, practice for gods sake and become a truly skilled player.

Where are you getting this idea that "high skilled" players use macros, because I don't know an actual high skilled player that uses macros, and I play at the highest level this game has to offer. It's more like an average to below average player that tends to use macros. Let's list the reasons that players typically use macros in this game and why high skilled players wouldn't use them:

1. Chainfire ballistics macro: It makes lots of noise, and looks cool to spam ballistics in quick succession that the in game chainfire can't do, but it's virtually useless for killing enemy mechs. Never seen an actual high skilled player use this since it's far more optimal to just alpha those exact same ballistics and get all your damage to one component. "But muh suppression effect" doesn't actually suppress anyone that knows to shoot through the dakka.

2. Gauss charging macro: If you can't hold/release a button to fire gauss, you're pretty bad. No one good actually uses this, because it actually takes away from your gauss control.

3. Tag macro: If you can't hold down a button for your tag while firing missiles, you're pretty bad, though this is more of a quality of life issue. Don't really see the need for it.

4. Ghost heat timing macro: Most ghost heat breaking combos aren't worth using anyways, with the exception of maybe dual gauss/dual ERPPC, but no one good would actually use a macro for that combination anyways. Again, if you can't properly time firing two groups of lasers, you're probably pretty bad.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I love how every tier 1 player comes out of the wood work like "W..what do you mean we use macros! Where do you get that idea?!"

Easy, from players who have openly admitted to using it, and to being okay with them being accessible in the first place.

But you know, keep squawking in denial.

[VonBruinwald]

VonBruinwald, on 11 October 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Try-hards will always try justify their use of macros, most commonly they'll say something along the lines of "it's what a human could do anyway" in which case what they really need to do is GitGud so they don't need to rely on macros to perform these actions.

In reality there's a handful of reasons macros should be useable, physical disabilities being the main one. After that it's more technical; weird/incompatible controllers, toggle vs. hold (tag) and cycling settings rather than using individual keys is about as far as it goes.

Chainfiring AC2s and staggering fire to avoid ghost-heat is scrub tier.

Add now you can add 'exploiting RAC mechanics' to the things scrub tiers do with their macros...