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The Change To Lurms Is Very Dangerous


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#21 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:57 PM

View PostCyanogene, on 06 February 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:


The difference is that you don't control a person, you control a sci-fi tank. You also don't die in one or two hits. The only people that have problems with LRMs in this game are the ones who are so bad at the game that they constantly get killed by them, and it takes either a team effort or a metric ton of lurms to take down a mech fast. Git gut and you'll get along with lurms just fine.


74% is good? My god.

#22 Formosa The God

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:36 AM

74% is good, 80% is very good and 90% is excellent :)

#23 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:34 AM

View PostNatred, on 06 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Just throwing this out there lock on weapons should not be in a first person mech shooter. Change my mind. Lol


Titanfall 2 is one of the best shooters of this generation and it has the Smart Pistol and mechs with lock-on weapons.

#24 Alexandra Hekmatyar

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:38 AM

Serious lurm buffs require serious Anti measure buffs as well and I think the last part is missing big time.
I can already see how seal clubbing will go if these lurm changes go into affect in faction play.

#25 Sjorpha

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:42 AM

I disagree with the change, in my opinion it tries to fix a "problem" that never existed.

Nothing wrong with having indirect fire missiles in a mech game. LRMs should primarily be viable at long range, it's in the name, and they should be used for support with shared locks just like it's always been.

The only real concern should be about making them the right strength to be competitive without dominating just like with every other weapon in the game.

Only problem I've ever seen with LRMs are that people can't stop complaining about them.

#26 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:11 AM

I am not a big fan of the change for multiple reasons. For one, LRM's aren't the issue, players are the issue. They change may intrinsically make LRMs better in direct fire situations and it may encourage more people to use them in direct fire but I think the reality is that a player who has already been inclined to hide fire LRMs indirectly will still continue to do this. That being the case, it fixes nothing.

On the other hand there is the potential to break a crapton of things.

First, any pilot who already uses LRMs in the second line, using direct fire and getting there own locks already knows that with the proper build they are deadly without the buff. With the Buff, used in this way, they are going to be more deadly. This could result in LRMs becoming OP and getting a nerf in some other faction which makes them less effective that they were in the first place.

Second, the change has the potential to break both current mech and skill builds. AMS may become mandatory. Radar Dep may become mandatory. If that is the case I will have to rebuild 200+ mechs with AMS and change most of their skill builds, build that many of my mechs rely on to be effective and fun for me to play. I really DON'T want to have to do rebuild everything because of a change that doesn't fix the problem which again is the player, not the LRM.

Third, as some who does have a few mechs designed to use LRMs and still function close to the front lines, one of the critical abilities to make this play style work is to be able to fire directly OVER your teammates heads. With the change to a direct fire mode your going to firing into the backs of your teammates kind of like what often happens with MRMs and ATMs. That being the case, the change breaks an entire play style or tactic. Granted that tactic will be replaced by something else but your SOL if you happen to enjoy playing your mech in a fashion that uses the higher arcs to play the 2nd line and fire over your teammates heads.

Fourth, the change really encroaches on other missile systems in the game and could very well result in replacing those systems. With the change the new LRMs would have characteristics of ATMs, MRMs, Streaks and traditional LRMs. You can look at this from multiple angles. For example, 1 point damage streaks with 900m plus ranges. Lock on MRMs (same damage per missile but your guaranteed to hit with all missiles). 1 point damage ATMs but with a faster speed making them less succeptable to AMS fire than ATMs. All while retaining the indirect, lock on fire mechanics that currently exist for LRMs. My point is that LRM's kind of become the jack-of-all-trades missile that can do a bit of everything.

Obviously we won't know what they will be like until the reach general usage especially since you can't get anything even approaching a normal match on the PTS and many or perhaps all these concerns won't even be present but I just don't understand why PGI keeps "Fixing" things with solutions that don't solve the issue but will potential break other things.

So again this issue is people using LRM's for indirect fire while hiding 800m away from the fight. Those people will still be able to do this with the new LRMs and those people will likely still continue to do this because they can and it is obviously their preferred play style. This solution solves nothing.

Edited by Angel of Annihilation, 07 February 2019 - 07:12 AM.


#27 draiocht

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:28 PM

[mod]This thread has been moved to
Public Test Sessions.[/mod]

#28 Brizna

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 05:35 AM

I ran some tests and I found surprising results.

First of all, all test are about LOS firing, I am not interested in indirect fire, they have been conducted in TESTING GROUNDS Tourmaline against (obviously) immobile targets, from the front and at ~220 m.

cLRM15+A Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 32/20!!
Catapult 16/12
Cicada 10/8
Commando 12/12

cLRM20 Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 28/23!!
Catapult 18/14
Cicada 8/7
Commando 13/14

With the current values of spread LRMs are receiving a very significant and I dare-say crippling blow.

#29 The6thMessenger

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:47 PM

View PostBrizna, on 11 February 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

With the current values of spread LRMs are receiving a very significant and I dare-say crippling blow.


Kinda late to the party. Navid already highlighted the fact that the LURMs are actually less effective. Where have you been dude?

#30 Erik Krieger

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:50 PM

View PostBrizna, on 06 February 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

As it is lurm pilots who stay behind cover and fire missiles at 800 meters are pretty useless to begin with on the other hand organized lurming at mid range is what can in certain situations be very competitive, so nerfing the aspect in which lurms are already weakest while buffing the one aspect they are strongest has potential to generate an OP weapon in the right hands.

Honestly if I were PGI I would leave lurms as they are, they are not perfect but they are working decently enough while being a very delicate system to alter.



I agree. And some ppl always seem to forget that u fight against 12 and not 1 mech. It's impossible to avoid lrm fire all the time and stand behind a rock or building for 2 minutes. Even now 1 clever (or lucky) lrm pilot can bring u down or at least hurt you very bad without any chance to shoot back. That sucks! At least if u like skill weapons and fights and if you hate cowardness... killing with lrms is the same "fun" and "skill" as pushing the red nuke button... that's the attitutde... can't see any "warrior"like thing in this...

#31 Brizna

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:26 PM

View PostBrizna, on 11 February 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

I ran some tests and I found surprising results.

First of all, all test are about LOS firing, I am not interested in indirect fire, they have been conducted in TESTING GROUNDS Tourmaline against (obviously) immobile targets, from the front and at ~220 m.

cLRM15+A Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 32/20!!
Catapult 16/12
Cicada 10/8
Commando 12/12

cLRM20 Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 28/23!!
Catapult 18/14
Cicada 8/7
Commando 13/14

With the current values of spread LRMs are receiving a very significant and I dare-say crippling blow.


cLRM15+A Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS2.1/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 25/20!!
Catapult 14/12
Cicada 7/8
Commando 10/12

cLRM20 Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS2.1/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 26/23!!
Catapult 16/14
Cicada 9/7
Commando 10/14

These values are a lot closer to live values, still we can see a significant increase in vulnerability to LRMs for light mechs while heavier mechs become somewhat less vulnerable to lurms. This certainly has profound implications for a mech class that is already suffering.

Edited by Brizna, 12 February 2019 - 03:27 PM.


#32 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:53 PM

View PostBrizna, on 12 February 2019 - 03:26 PM, said:


cLRM15+A Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS2.1/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 25/20!!
Catapult 14/12
Cicada 7/8
Commando 10/12

cLRM20 Number of volleys necessary to kill (PTS2.1/LIVE SERVER)
Atlas 26/23!!
Catapult 16/14
Cicada 9/7
Commando 10/14

These values are a lot closer to live values, still we can see a significant increase in vulnerability to LRMs for light mechs while heavier mechs become somewhat less vulnerable to lurms. This certainly has profound implications for a mech class that is already suffering.


I think it's a matter of volleys not being properly focused at center-mass.

#33 Extra Guac

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:19 PM

Testing LRMs from 220m is a non-representative test imo





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