24 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

So, which mechs you want to have modified HSL?

I want:

+1 PPC/Gauss on Night-Gyr
+1 AC20 HSL on King Crab
+1 RAC2 HSL on King Crab
+2 SRM6/4 HSL on Jenner IIC
+1 CERLL/HLL on TBR-A LT
+1 PPC/Gauss on TBR-A LT
+2 ERML/HML on HBK-IIC-A
+2 ML on TDR-TD
+2 SRM6/4 on Catapult
+2 SRM6/4 on Javelin

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 February 2019 - 03:13 AM.

[FupDup]

The poorly named HSL quirks (I keep reading them as Heavy Small Laser) only apply to stock loadouts. For example since no MWO King Crabs come with RACs stock, you're not gonna get a RAC ghost heat limit quirk for them.

Edited by FupDup, 15 February 2019 - 07:41 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Well, since Chris asserted that he like to look to lore for his "flavor" quirks, I'd like to see a +1 or even +2 HSL quirk for ML or MPL for Grasshoppers since by their "lore" description they are supposed to emphasize "a predominately shorter-ranged, energy-based weaponry" (see Sarna description) vs the standard laser vomit most of us run.

[Matthew Ace]

Personally I would like to see general Heat Scale Limit buffs (i.e. HsL that applies to everything) on certain chassis that may need help.

Example 1: Take an Awesome 8Q with +1 HSL to PPC for example. If it had a +1 general HSL, players may start to bring 4 LPL 3ML build, but that would hardly cause balance to go out of wack.

Example 2: Hunchback 4P has +2 ML HSL now. Changing this to +2 General HSL will probably just bring out some other creative builds (or trollbuild lol). It wouldnt become OP all of a sudden.

Example 3: If you put +1 general HSL on the KGC variant with 6 ballistic hardpoints, it could add some interesting twist (although we need to be careful). 4 rac2 / 3 rac5 / 2 ac20 paired with secondary weapons would be nasty (but could still be within reasonable expectation).

Or you could also put general HSL on certain omnimechs such as Warhawk or Gargoyle.

[El Bandito]

+2 Flamer HLS quirk on the Firestarter definitely.

[BrunoSSace]

Javlin 11A HSL +1 medium laser. Should of had it like in for ever.sa
Kintaro HSL +1 streaks
Thunderbolt 5s +1 Large Lasers.

Few of the ones I want.

Edit, discover that the Javlin 11A already has this quirk, so I just brought one.

Edited by BrunoSSace, 16 February 2019 - 12:22 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I just think all mechs that have a stock build breaking ghost heat should get it so there is no heat penalty on stock builds, probably with some exceptions like the Nova prime. King Crab ac20 is my no1 wish though.

[Jay Leon Hart]

With the caveat that I don't remember which AWS/NSR and others have what HSL buffs (and I'm too lazy to look atm);
JVN-11A +1 HSL ML
PIR-2 +2 HSL ERmL
HBK-4P +2 HSL ML (done already?)
ACW-1 +2 HSL SRM4/6 (+4 seems a little too good)
NVA-Prime +2 HSL ERML (+6 would be hilarious, but no)
Top Dog +2 HSL ML
HLF-1 +1 HSL HSL & +2 HSL HML & +1 HSL LRM10 (now it can actually Alpha, but probably still overheat)
HLF-2 +1 HSL HML
MDD-A +2 HSL SRM4/6
HBR-P +1 HSL ERLL
NCT-A +2 HSL ERLL (people aren't scared of NCTs are they? +1 maybe?)
NCT-B +1 HSL LRM15 (one arm at a time)
NCT-D +1 HSL HLL (done already?)
NCT-Prime +1 HSL ERLL (done already?)
SNS-C +1 HSL LRM15/20 (one side at a time)
NTG-D +2 HSL LRM20 (people aren't scared of NTGs are they? +1 maybe?)
AWS-8Q +1 HSL PPC (done already?)
AWS-9M +1 HSL ERPPC
NSR-9J +1 HSL Gauss/PPC (done already?)
NSR-9S +1 HSL UAC20
ANH-1A +1 HSL AC10
ANH-1E +2 HSL PPC (people aren't scared of energy ANHs are they? +1 maybe?)
ANH-1P +1 HSL RAC2 & +2 HSL RAC5 (too much?)
Mean Baby +1 HSL PPC
FNR-5E +1 HSL UAC20 & +1 HSL LRM5 (+2 HSL LRM5 & +1 HSL LRM10 seems a bit much)
FNR-6R +2 HSL SNPPC (or just +1 HSL Gauss/PPC)
FNR-6U +1 HSL UAC20 & +1 HSL LPPC
KGC-000 +1 HSL AC20
KGC-0000 +1 HSL AC20
KGC-000B +1 HSL AC20
Kaiju +2 HSL PPC (or just +1 HSL Gauss/PPC)
MAD-IIC +1 HSL ERPPC
MAD-IIC-C +1 HSL LPL
WHK-Prime +1 HSL ERPPC (+2 too strong?)
Rancor +1 HSL ERLL (+2 too strong?)
HGN-IIC-A +1 HSL ERPPC
MCII-4 +1 HSL ERLL (+2 too strong?)
MCII-B +1 HSL UAC20
SNV-1 +1 HSL ERLL (one arm at a time)
SNV-B +1 HSL LPL (+2 too strong?)
BOILER +1 HSL UAC20
SNV-C +1 HSL LPL (+2 too strong?)
EXE-A +1 HSL LPL
EXE-D +2 HSL MPL/SPL/ERSL (+1 doesn't seem enough, but +3 is too much)
DWF-Prime +1 HSL ERLL (+2 too strong?)
DWF-A +1 HSL LPL
KDK-1 +2 HSL ERML
KDK-5 +2 HSL ERML (+4 seems too much)

Quite a list there

Thread by Alcom Isst

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 16 February 2019 - 04:02 AM.

[Spheroid]

More RAC spam? That is dumb. Why do you think we had that emergency macro patch? If the dps from that exploit was deemed excessive there is no reason to petition a return to that.

From the target's perspective hyperactive RACs without ghostheat are no different from boated RAC using HSL quirks.

[Curccu]

The6thMessenger, on 15 February 2019 - 06:24 PM, said:

+1 PPC/Gauss on Night-Gyr

That is most likely gonna happen, because that mech was kinda the reason why gauss and ppc got linked GH

[Y E O N N E]

@Jay

NSR-9J has ERPPC HSL+1; I would prefer it to be turned into a generic PPC Family HSL+1, though, like the AWS-8Q.

I would also like to see UAC/10 HSL+1 on the NSR-9P, and see the NSR-9J's armor quirks made standard across the chassis.

[Koniving]

Spheroid, on 16 February 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

More RAC spam? That is dumb. Why do you think we had that emergency macro patch? If the dps from that exploit was deemed excessive there is no reason to petition a return to that.

From the target's perspective hyperactive RACs without ghostheat are no different from boated RAC using HSL quirks.

The thing is when PGI commented on it, they said they didn't see any actual DPS increase.
But we kept crying and crying and so they did actually fix it. I think. I dunno, I admit I haven't played during the entire time it was going on because I've been working on other things (including overtime) and this.

Spoiler

I'm halfway finished building it, so this isn't a picture of mine specifically. Also got the Battletech (Dougram) Shadow Hawk, the Scorpion, and a few others coming in. As this is my first model with flexibility (about twenty years ago I had a diorama as a backdrop for my ATSTs and ATATs), I'm actually finally building these things rather enlightening. Its giving me ideas for how to do joints and articulation in 3D modeling. But damn those little stubs, if I didn't start this while at work (I'm in quality and during overtime with far fewer machines running I have long waits between parts to check), I'd probably have lost some of the pieces as well as been unable to do stub cleanup. Thankfully my job involves working with plastic anyway, so I had some precision tools handy.

But anyway, about the only thing the RACro should have been able to exploit is extending the time before jamming/heat exponentially escalated (potentially indefinitely depending on how it was done). Though yes, in theory that'd extend how long they could fire it. It wouldn't increase the DPS however, as the game's firing rate is heavily controlled.

It could have potentially work around the special Flamer-style way the game did ghost heat for RACs and THAT would be the big kicker (and given if this is/was true, then that'd certainly raise the stakes and the DPS). Given the "without ghost heat" comment, I assume this last part is what was going on with the RACro.

Surprised it took this long for that one to pop up, and that PGI didn't preempt it using the same fix they had for the Flamer trick (which doesn't need an external macro as MWO has a macro built in, aka "chain fire" and firing groups). After all on paper its the exact same trick (give or take different timings) as the RACro.

Explanation

In combat.

Edited by Koniving, 16 February 2019 - 10:07 AM.

[Verilligo]

Koniving, on 16 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

It wouldn't increase the DPS however, as the game's firing rate is heavily controlled.

Narrator: It was not.

[Koniving]

Verilligo, on 16 February 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

Narrator: It was not.

Given the server controlled nature of the game, there's nothing you can do client side that would manipulate how frequently the weapon fires (provided it has a cooldown with which the server will say "No you can't do this").
Got a video to prove it can fire faster, as opposed to it permitting more RACs with alternating fire (which is what a macro does, it allows for alternating fire to give the illusion of firing faster.) Because getting two unsynched RACs to fire would give the illusion of basically breaking the game.

For example I have this set to produce a beat.

Or this "burst fire" and the ultra fast fire is actually starting with the macro and then allowing regular firing rate to take over. Fact is the burst fire is slower than standard fire but with starting the pattern and then going to the full speed of regular fire it creates the illusion of shooting so much faster... especially as at the time the triple AC/2 had one barrel.

Edit: Though Chris said it doesn't appear to change the actual DPS... evidently the tears were enough that they must've found something.
"Macro software should no longer be able to output more than the standard damage rate on weapons such as Rotary Auto Cannons and Machine Guns."
So apparently those two weapons must've had an issue. I could see MGs as they lack a cool down. RAC apparently also lacked a real cool down phase. (Without a lack of a set cooldown, yes the server authority would basically take each input and give the green light. However most of the weapons don't have this issue.)

Edited by Koniving, 16 February 2019 - 11:46 AM.

[Verilligo]

Koniving, on 16 February 2019 - 11:36 AM, said:

Given the server controlled nature of the game, there's nothing you can do client side that would manipulate how frequently the weapon fires.
Got a video to prove it can fire faster, as opposed to it permitting more RACs with alternating fire (which is what a macro does, it allows for alternating fire to give the illusion of firing faster.) Because getting two unsynched RACs to fire would give the illusion of basically breaking the game.

For example I have this set to produce a beat.

Or this "burst fire" and the ultra fast fire is actually starting with the macro and then allowing regular firing rate to take over. Fact is the burst fire is slower than standard fire but with starting the pattern and then going to the full speed of regular fire it creates the illusion of shooting so much faster... especially as at the time the triple AC/2 had one barrel.

No, Kon, you've got it wrong. That's why they had to hotfix it ASAP. There was no minimum refire time. Every time you pulled the trigger once the RAC was fully ramped up, a bullet would fire. Holding the fire button down produced inputs at a set interval. Feathering the fire button at a rate faster than humanly possible, though, would fire at EVERY input so long as the gun was fully ramped up. It wasn't an illusion, it was bad programming. They never thought to account for a super rapid, repeated input. Thus when they hotfixed it, the fix was to prevent the gun from firing at every SINGLE input and instead only fire at every single input 0.15s after the last successful input.

There's a difference between visual desync and using up ammo at a more rapid rate than normal. The second one can only happen if you are firing more bullets successfully. The fact that it also exploited the way RACs generated heat and jam was just a secondary cherry on top that allowed for quad and quint RAC2 builds to make full use of the problem.

[tutzdes]

OP post: we need more crazy big insta-gib alphas.

ME: no, we don't

[Horseman]

Matthew Ace, on 15 February 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

If you put +1 general HSL on the KGC variant with 6 ballistic hardpoints, it could add some interesting twist (although we need to be careful). 4 rac2 / 3 rac5 / 2 ac20 paired with secondary weapons would be nasty (but could still be within reasonable expectation).

RAC5s take 6 slots each. You can't install three of them on a KGC.

El Bandito, on 15 February 2019 - 09:47 PM, said:

+2 Flamer HLS quirk on the Firestarter definitely.

IIRC flamers stop scaling past 4x anyway, so not much point there

[Pariah Devalis]

As the HSL quirks are based on stock builds first and foremost, I'd like to see:
HSL+1 ERLLas on the SNV-1
HSL +1 ERPPC on the WHK
HSL +2 ERMLas on the Nova

In the case of the Nova, it wouldn't make its stock build devoid of GH, but it would reduce the impact of the GH overall. For the SNV, it's more of a QOL change, as its prime config was designed to offload each arm at a time. It can eat the heat of a couple triple-beams, but it is still causing an unnecessary heat spike, and the weapons are not exactly in high mounts, so require exposure. With C-ERLLas burn duration, that is quite a bit of exposure time, too. As for the Warhawk Prime, again, like the Nova, it isn't to eliminate GH entirely if you tried to alpha, but it should make an accidental alpha in a stock fit more manageable.

[R Valentine]

SNV 1 +1 ERLL.

[El Bandito]

Horseman, on 18 February 2019 - 02:41 AM, said:

IIRC flamers stop scaling past 4x anyway, so not much point there

Make them scale more for Firestarter only!