47 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

What's the point of reinforced casing skill on a Clan Mech?

Because honestly, it doesn't do jack ****.

[GeminiWolf]

I believe it reduces crit damage with or without case.

[PhoenixFire55]

Jackal Noble, on 20 February 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

What's the point of reinforced casing skill on a Clan Mech?

Because honestly, it doesn't do jack ****.

^^ Tier 1 ladies and gentlemen ... lol

[FireStoat]

When the skill maze was rolled out with the civil war patch, I believe it was commented on that that numerous filler choices were a part of your picks that acted as gates for the skill choices you really wanted. I'll agree that reduced crit seems to do very little, but that's how it is. For what it's worth, people on the outside of MWO looking in rightfully mock the system when it's compared with other game systems and how they accommodate new players.

[Jackal Noble]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 February 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

^^ Tier 1 ladies and gentlemen ... lol

You dolt. I'm well aware of what it's supposed to do.
It's more about the fact that Clan weapons have such low hp that it doesn't really matter.

But I get it, you got some likes for saying that on a thread earlier.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 21 February 2019 - 12:45 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Jackal Noble, on 21 February 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

You dolt. I'm well aware of what it's supposed to do.
It's more about the fact that Clan weapons have such low hp that it doesn't really matter.

-1.5% is -1.5% and it does exactly what its supposed to do.

[Jackal Noble]

[BrunoSSace]

What hes trying to say, is his sand sifter doesn't stop any sand.

[BrunoSSace]

In all serious. You are right. 1% of lets say 500 is silly and ill effective.

[The6thMessenger]

I don't get it unless necessary. That's always an option.

[BrunoSSace]

The6thMessenger, on 21 February 2019 - 01:41 AM, said:

I don't get it unless necessary. That's always an option.

But on Clan when do you get it? They dont have heaps of armor or structure so its not as useful for them as it is for the IS.

[Jay Leon Hart]

BrunoSSace, on 21 February 2019 - 02:03 AM, said:

But on Clan when do you get it? They dont have heaps of armor or structure so its not as useful for them as it is for the IS.

True, IS generally have more Armour, Stucture & agility so benefit more from those nodes.

However, Clan generally have more range, speed and heat, so benefit more from those nodes.

Not saying more heat is a bonus, but it means the % nodes are more effective (although, with the difference in %, maybe not?)

[KhanBhacKeD]

Hmm guys reinforced casing reduce crit chance not crit damage.
So it reduce the chance of getting bonus damage from crits and getting your weapons critted. (so when you know clan weapon ahave less hp it's more usefull to avoid crits.)

It's always a bit usefull.

And BTW it's on the road for armor/structure so nearly just bonus.


And BTW remember clan have reduced bonus for weapons modules (so they are nearly equivalent as is on this nodes.)

Edited by KhanBhacKeD, 21 February 2019 - 04:10 AM.

[Asym]

Ah, we're back to re-studying the great skill tree debacle. Take the 1.5% and drive on.......there isn't a logical in game reason for what they have done so, and to quote a great song:

Keep as cool as you can
Face piles of trials with smiles
It riles them to believe
That you perceive
The web they weave..."

thanks Moody Blues.........it makes playing this game bearable....

Edited by Asym, 21 February 2019 - 05:45 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Jackal Noble, on 20 February 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

What's the point of reinforced casing skill on a Clan Mech?

Because honestly, it doesn't do jack ****.

I've often wondered about the survival tree actually, I've always prioritised straight up armour buff nodes but even then in the grand scheme of things, you end up with about one extra hit from a big weapon on one of your locations worth of extra armour on your clan 'Mech. It's baffling. In some cases I've began to swing away from survival altogether in favour of straight up offensive skill spending for range, cooldown and heat reduction. I wonder though even on IS 'Mechs, what the worth of crit chance reduction is. To me thosr mechanics are like a black box and I've spent many an hour agonizing over character builds in RPGs.

[Verilligo]

BrunoSSace, on 21 February 2019 - 01:32 AM, said:

In all serious. You are right. 1% of lets say 500 is silly and ill effective.

If that was how it worked, you'd be right, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. I would imagine that it's a straight subtraction from the actual crit chance percentage. So you're looking at, with max nodes, bringing the chance of a double crit down from 14% to 2% and a single crit down from 25% to 13%, at least with MOST weapons. The real problem is that Clan gear has such little HP that a lot more weapons pass the threshold for one-shotting the equipment as soon as the armor is stripped, and in many cases destroying the gear with the same hit that strips said armor off. It's still only a 13% chance with max nodes (which most people don't have), but as soon as you roll the 13%, the gear has a large chance to just up and expire. It's all intended to work this way, though, as that's one of the balancing methods they chose for Clans.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

i doubt it's a flat reduction. Look at the Charger Hero's quirk of -70%

[Jman5]

RickySpanish, on 21 February 2019 - 05:47 AM, said:

I've often wondered about the survival tree actually, I've always prioritised straight up armour buff nodes but even then in the grand scheme of things, you end up with about one extra hit from a big weapon on one of your locations worth of extra armour on your clan 'Mech. It's baffling. In some cases I've began to swing away from survival altogether in favour of straight up offensive skill spending for range, cooldown and heat reduction. I wonder though even on IS 'Mechs, what the worth of crit chance reduction is. To me those mechanics are like a black box and I've spent many an hour agonizing over character builds in RPGs.

If anything, I think the firepower tree is the overrated one. For example, if you have a PPC with a 4 second cooldown and you get 10% cooldown reduction in skill tree, how long does it take for that 10% to = 1 extra shot if you continuously fire? Answer: 10. You have to fire a ppc 10 times in a row with your finger always down to get 1 extra shot for all those skill points. That's 36 seconds of firing for +10 damage per PPC. The truth is cooldown skills are wasted more often than not because we don't usually refire the instant our weapons cooldown expires (let alone 10 times in a row).

Also the heatgen, cooldown, and beam duration skills are lower on the clan skill tree than the Inner Sphere's tree, so you get even worse returns there.

Personally, I've been doing the opposite: peeling skills off my firepower tree and putting it toward more utilitarian skills in the sensor and auxiliary tree. For example every time your target decay skill allows one of your derpy teammates to land his LRM 30 on target that is another +20-30 damage on the enemy team that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Edited by Jman5, 21 February 2019 - 08:28 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Jman5, on 21 February 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

For example every time your target decay skill allows one of your derpy teammates to land his LRM 30 on target that another +20-30 damage on the enemy team that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

That's not how it works, the only damage you should care about is your own... helping your teammates is not how this game is played. Why do you think those ECM vomit builds don't cover their teammates with their bubbles. Instead they sit 500m away and use them as bait so they can inflate their own personal damage scores.

Don't forget; If your team loses you can always blame the MM for your W:L

Edited by VonBruinwald, 21 February 2019 - 08:09 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Jman5, on 21 February 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

If anything, I think the firepower tree is the overrated one. For example, if you have a PPC with a 4 second cooldown and you get 10% cooldown reduction in skill tree, how long does it take for that 10% to = 1 extra shot if you continuously fire? Answer: 10. You have to fire a ppc 10 times in a row with your finger always down to get 1 extra shot for all those skill points. That's 36 seconds of firing for +10 damage per PPC. The truth is cooldown skills are wasted more often than not because we don't usually refire the instant our weapons cooldown expires (let alone 10 times in a row).

Also the heatgen, cooldown, and beam duration skills are lower on the clan skill tree than the Inner Sphere's tree, so you get even worse returns there.

Personally, I've been doing the opposite: peeling skills off my firepower tree and putting it toward more utilitarian skills in the sensor and auxiliary tree. For example every time your target decay skill allows one of your derpy teammates to land his LRM 30 on target that another +20-30 damage on the enemy team that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Aux tree is definitely best tree. I also go down sensors for derp on slower 'Mechs or scouts. Heat reduction is where it's at for me though, I find that to be the greatest impediment to performance - all those times I'm ducked down cooling off or staggering fire due to redlining stick out like sore thumbs, moreso than catching one too many PPC or AC shots. However I didn't realise clan/IS trees were different. I've always built on a case by case basis without looking at the bigger picture. Those cheeky dev monkies!