120 replies to this topic

[Greyhart]

So we obviously have MW5 coming and we're likely to have a couple of years of MWO left.

I see a transfer to the MW5 engine coming, which will likely mean significant changes to mech customization. So you can't just roll everything over.

I just don't see how a small studio could justify having 2 similar games working on very different engines, especially when one of them is new and the other is old. Logically a transfer of MWO has to occur or MWO has to close completely.

Given these assumptions and assuming they don't just wipe everything and say new game no transfers. How would you like you time in MWO to be shown and transferred over to MWO2?

[crazytimes]

I would like a decal. Sort of like what you get from ultra rare supply caches, a small decal and a targetting computer. That would be nice.

[Jyrox]

As much as I like altruism, there is this,

If there is an MWO:2 and it is free to play, then as the studio will need a revenue stream we will have to buy everything all over again.

Seems fair enough.

[Bud Crue]

Greyhart, on 21 February 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:

I see a transfer to the MW5 engine coming, which will likely mean significant changes to mech customization. So you can't just roll everything over.

Russ was asked about this during the Q&A at mechcon, and he demurred from answering directly by pointing to the fact that the license with MS that is necessary for PGI to make MW games is up in 2020, and has not yet been renewed.

When asked about this again more recently, he said the future of MWO is “up to the community”.

I don’t know about you, but the fact that Russ is unwilling to give a straight answer regarding the planned or even theorized future of this game or its successor, does not fill me with confidence that a MWO transfer or major upgrade is actually being planned by PGI. Transverse II or maybe a F2P Diehard game could be what PGI has planned; who knows? What I do know though, is that this game here, has been losing players consistently since the leaderboards were put in and allowed us to see the population. That trend is clear and assuming that trend continues, the population will eventually become untenable and then this game dies due to the lack of interest by its own “community”. With that very real reality for context, why do we think PGI will throw major investment at some sort of transfer to a new engine?

[Jyrox]

Russ wouldn't really be able to say much as MWO is a business, and we don't know the financial records and aspects of the business in question.

He might not be able to promise anything, and for business reasons can't. He probably also doesn't want to close the idea either.

It comes down to:

Expected revenus of MWO:2 - Cost of MWO:2

Revenue is accumulated over time, and cost is high in initial phase.

So games like this require backers who want to invest (maybe to offset tax and utilise spare capital) who can wait for their investment to break-even and make a return.

Computer games are therefore risky ventures and brand-names are valuable.

This puts anyone, and in this case Russ, into a tricky position when asked, so to give non-commital answers is par for the course.

[Kotzi]

Russ is the president and founder of PGI, why shouldnt he be knowing vital stuff like that if he is the one making the decisions? Afaik PGI is a private held company. He wouldnt say anything negative to not loose even more people and revenue. Why should he be telling you that they dont get enough revenue and wont be prolonging the license if that was the case? Any Businessman would break those news in the final month of the inevitable end if at all and take as much money as you can because you paid for that license anyway.

Edited by Kotzi, 21 February 2019 - 03:22 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bud Crue, on 21 February 2019 - 02:40 AM, said:

Russ was asked about this during the Q&A at mechcon, and he demurred from answering directly by pointing to the fact that the license with MS that is necessary for PGI to make MW games is up in 2020, and has not yet been renewed.

When asked about this again more recently, he said the future of MWO is “up to the community”.

I don’t know about you, but the fact that Russ is unwilling to give a straight answer regarding the planned or even theorized future of this game or its successor, does not fill me with confidence that a MWO transfer or major upgrade is actually being planned by PGI. Transverse II or maybe a F2P Diehard game could be what PGI has planned; who knows? What I do know though, is that this game here, has been losing players consistently since the leaderboards were put in and allowed us to see the population. That trend is clear and assuming that trend continues, the population will eventually become untenable and then this game dies due to the lack of interest by its own “community”. With that very real reality for context, why do we think PGI will throw major investment at some sort of transfer to a new engine?

Russ and PGI aren't really going to talk about the future of PGI and the BattleTech license until there is a formal announcement made by them and Microsoft. I wouldn't expect anything more than what they have said already. Basically, I wouldn't read too much into what has been said...yet.

I think MW5:Mercs sales performance/success will play a big part in determining PGI's future with the franchise. So far, the game looks on track to be a good entry into the franchise. If it delivers, and there is a renewed interest in MechWarrior by the gaming community as a whole, then I could see them getting their renewal. At that point, I could see a MWO:2 being in the cards.

As Jyrox pointed out though, I would expect everybody to be back at square one if PGI did. That being said, I could see PGI extending a small bonus to those who had played MWO:1 in the past to help reward them for their patronage.

[Cazador88]

Best solution (atleast from our point) is of course would be to port MWO over to the UE4 engine and everyone can keep their progress etc. I don't think they'll dump a f2p game just for a buy to play one totally. I mean a f2p generates vastly more renevue than a one time buy kind. Theres always these tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about mw5 that it'll have multiplayer implemented and MWO gets dumped. But if we get that multiplayer part as part of mw5 they would be shooting themselves in the foot because it could not contain microtransactions but even if it could it would be limited to comestics only otherwise there would be outrage. If we get that multiplayer part as part of mw5 but as a f2p type but no progression carries over from MWO and MWO gets shutdown (which they can do because theres is no law fobidding it afaik) a lot of people will probably just leave completely because of lost progression and money etc. So yes the best solution is what i mentioned first and i guess thats what Russ was refering to when he said it depends on the community meaning if people keep playing MWO and keep generating profit they'll eventually port it over to the ue4 engine and so on.

[Greyhart]

My view:

It appears MWO makes money, even now, and it is an old product. If there isn't a licencing issue then PGI are going to want to have MWO continue to make money and use the assets they have created to make money.

Running essential the same game in 2 engines is uneconomical in the medium term. So if you are not going to shut down MWO you are going to port it over to the newer engine (a good chunk of the work been done for MW5).

The limitations on how they have implemented MWO are clear and therefore the porting of the game makes for a good opportunity to change how things work on a fundamental level. This would mean a straight copy over would not be possible.

If you are going for major changes then might as well call it MWO2 or MW5 online (whatever).

Now how do you encourage the community over to the MWO2?

I would say follow Guildwars method. Give those that have MWO accounts some sort of cosmetic bonus, maybe a Cbills bonus start as well. But not a straight transfer.

[Ghogiel]

MW5 will probably be middling successful. It may be profitable enough to warrent persuing a license extention so DLC or even a MW5 2.0 Clan game is developed. PGI may still keep hold the license if it goes well enough at launch

As for MWO2. It's not complete fantasy. But if it's to rely on crowdsource funding like MWO was, it may struggle, I'm just not convinced the fanbase woud come out of the woodwork to more or less blindly fund something, all the while it would already feel like we have already been down that road and are paying for mech packs all over again. :shrug:

Edited by Ghogiel, 21 February 2019 - 05:03 AM.

[Storm Rider 823]

I would like the option to bring one mech over. I would like to start out the new game with the mech that began it all for me in MWO: ENF-4P for life!

Edited by Storm Rider 823, 21 February 2019 - 06:42 AM.

[ACH75]

IMHO in the meantime that MWO assets and chassis are converted to MW5 engine we desperately need a TRUE COMPETENT BALANCE TEAM working on MWO weapon tech, chassis quirks and agility values revision...

I'm really pissed of wasting patch opportunities... we have the maps, we have the tech, we have the chassis but if not
properly optimized they are not enough fun to play and having FUN is the most important thing in a game.

The balance works are many but they are just tuning values so it's most a brain work for few COMPETENT people that PGI
can afford without financial problems... it's just a matter of WILL...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Greyhart, on 21 February 2019 - 04:52 AM, said:

My view:

...Running essential the same game in 2 engines is uneconomical in the medium term. So if you are not going to shut down MWO you are going to port it over to the newer engine (a good chunk of the work been done for MW5).

The limitations on how they have implemented MWO are clear and therefore the porting of the game makes for a good opportunity to change how things work on a fundamental level. This would mean a straight copy over would not be possible.

If you are going for major changes then might as well call it MWO2 or MW5 online (whatever).

Now how do you encourage the community over to the MWO2?

I would say follow Guildwars method. Give those that have MWO accounts some sort of cosmetic bonus, maybe a Cbills bonus start as well. But not a straight transfer.

I have a feeling that recreating MWO in Unreal would be quite the undertaking and would be rather time, money, and resource intensive. I am sure that some content could be easier to swap over than others, but nothing would be directly plug-and-play.

If PGI has their license renewal from Microsoft, and they commit to continuing MechWarrior in an online multiplayer capacity with Unreal, then I am confident that they are going to do it with a sequel. All the work and money involved in making an Online MechWarrior game in Unreal would be too much cost to just do it. It would have to be treated as a new game with a new revenue stream to cover the cost.

I'm not in the industry, so I couldn't speak for exactly how much work, time, and effort this endeavor would take, however I am still confident this is the case.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 21 February 2019 - 07:10 AM.

[kf envy]

ya im not about to start from the ground up again with an new MWO game, one go of "wanna buy a mech pack" is more then enough for the BattleTech/MechWarrior IP. all PGI needs to do is add on PVP into MW5 with all the current mechs in MWO an open it up the mod teams to add even more mechs an well be set.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well first, it wouldn't be a bad thing if a more competent studio got hold of the MW license and actually reinvented the wheel into something approaching a good MWO:2 game. I would prefer it to be more similar to MW:LL myself and/or with more role play elements, at least that was the game I was hoping for when MWO was first announced.

Second, name one sequel that ever allow you to completely transfer your progress over to the new game. I can't think of any to be honest so your going to have to start from scratch for the most part. I mean sure, I expect them to have some sort of promo available to MWO:1 players, but it would probably be something along the lines of a MC/C-bill package, maybe some camo skins and/or even a "Special Editon" mech or two to get you started off and that is. Really they is no way in hell they are going to let me transfer my collection of 255 mechs, 300 million C-bill inventory of mech parts and 65 million C-bill bank account to a new game and this is especially true if someone else picks up the license.

So I wouldn't really get your hopes up of anything all that special happening if we get a MWO:2 from PGI or anyone else for that matter.

[w4ldO]

Let down the whales, get let down by the whales.

[TheCaptainJZ]

As nice as it would be to have a MWO2, I don't expect it to happen. So far, Russ has been noncommittal beyond the launch of MW5. He's hinted at possible expansions but has used the caveat of "if MW5 is successful" or something along those lines. It sounds like publicly, he doesn't want to over-commit and I get that. That was something PGI has done many times in the past. He has a lot riding on MW5. If it's not successful enough, well, they can't do any expansions or a MWO2. If MW5 is successful, I would still doubt they'd do a MWO2. It's brought them a ton of headache in trying to develop and deliver and keep balanced. If they are thinking in terms of MW5 expansions, which is probably a lot easier for them to develop and meet expectations, then why would they mess with splitting their focus on MWO2? No, MWO is going to stay as is for the foreseeable future. A long time from now, a multiplayer aspect might be added to MW5, but it won't be structured like MWO.

I could see them adding Solaris into MW5 and dropping it here. That might be interesting.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 21 February 2019 - 09:03 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

TheCaptainJZ, on 21 February 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

As nice as it would be to have a MWO2, I don't expect it to happen. So far, Russ has been noncommittal beyond the launch of MW5. He's hinted at possible expansions but has used the caveat of "if MW5 is successful" or something along those lines. It sounds like publicly, he doesn't want to over-commit and I get that. That was something PGI has done many times in the past. He has a lot riding on MW5. If it's not successful enough, well, they can't do any expansions or a MWO2. If MW5 is successful, I would still doubt they'd do a MWO2. It's brought them a ton of headache in trying to develop and deliver and keep balanced. If they are thinking in terms of MW5 expansions, which is probably a lot easier for them to develop and meet expectations, then why would they mess with splitting their focus on MWO2? No, MWO is going to stay as is for the foreseeable future. A long time from now, a multiplayer aspect might be added to MW5, but it won't be structured like MWO.

I could see them adding Solaris into MW5 and dropping it here. That might be interesting.

To be honest, I am really hoping they will add a multiplayer feature to MW5 at some point as an expansion. I mean it is pretty obvious to me that we only have a few years left with MWO especially since PGI seems to only be giving it life support levels of attention. If they added in Multiplayer to MW5, coming with extensive support for player modding, PGI would have a major cash cow on their hands. They could even continue with mech pack DLCs every few months for $9.95 that added 4-5 new mechs at a time, not to mention selling map pack DLCs, etc. That is the direction I would ultimately take MW5 within a few years of launch anyway and with that, I would either officially end MWO or at least end support and allow MWO to end a natural death as less and less player logged in to play.

[JediPanther]

Jyrox, on 21 February 2019 - 02:03 AM, said:

As much as I like altruism, there is this,

If there is an MWO:2 and it is free to play, then as the studio will need a revenue stream we will have to buy everything all over again.

Seems fair enough.

Not to me. i'd expect a transfer system where I can pay one amount and 'unlock' or whatever all my mwo assets. I put in my time and money here and they ought to have a transfer option of some kind. They won't have to rebuild all mwo assets since they can likely export and import the 3d models already made.

Given how badly they've managed mwo choosing mechs as content over every thing else I'd not expect them to suddenly git gud as a developer just because they are using a newer engine.

[thievingmagpi]

What game has ever had a transfer system between iterations?

A decal, a few days of premium time, maybe a lump of in-game currency would be, at the most, all I'd expect and even then that's asking a lot.

Any hypothetical "MWO2" is a different product from MWO. I don't expect anything free just because I used an older product of theirs in the past. Nothing ever works like that.