64 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

Just. Bring. A. Cool shot. Hnnnng lol.

[The Masked Luchador]

I've decided to give this game a rest for awhile. Between the constant changing of weapons and the preference and favoritism to lrms to the lopsided and nonsensical match making I just can't anymore. Hopefully my passion for the IP will be rekindled when MW5 comes out (which will likely kill this game anyway).

[Lances107]

Koniving, on 01 March 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

Yeah, in closed and open beta when the heatsink indicator would show broken heatsinks, which overheating up until open beta ended actually did critical component damage to everything (and later the actuator and engine stuff was just turned off so basically heatsinks, weapons and ammo). You didn't straight up die from overheating but if you had ammo and hit 104% heat, you basically exploded.

In 2013, the "Override" system was changed so that rather than a quicker reboot, it prevented shutdown in the first place. With this the overheat mechanic stopped attacking your crits and instead attacked your structure (since they had a reliable way of showing that damage as opposed to monitors that worked most times but sometimes didn't, and only showed heatsinks and ammo).

If you lost a side torso or something full of heatsinks (heatsink boating was a huge thing at the time), you'd get huge cuts to your max heat and cooling power slowed to a crawl making things seem to take forever to cool off. Soon after PGI tweaked something so that you'd only lose a percentage of cooling power for heatsinks lost.

It's been that way for a long, long time.

And welp, note that the patch notes specifies that they changed the heat system to take from all the heatsinks...

"Destroyed Heat Sinks and Clan XL / IS Light Engine side torso destruction penalties now removes total heat threshold from the top of the available heat pool rather then from the bottom. "
Top being all the heatsinks + all bonuses, where bottom was just the engine + added heatsinks (so I stand corrected, yeah losing the engine also takes from the total pool).

"This will mean that instead of limiting the amount of heat your bar can be reduced to, redlining to the edge of the shutdown threshold will result in a shutdown or an overridden state if an enemy destroys Heat Sinks or damages an engine out from under you. "

And this is the part I mainly focused on. First off it takes from the top of the pool from all the threshold and cooling power including bonuses (where in the past it only took from your base ten and even then it had a percentage cap of how much it could take away), but it also is including heatsinks in this taking from the top of the pool. So no more 5% or so cap to how much you can lose. Imagine if overheating still attacked your crit slots instead of your structure; you'd be a ticking time bomb.



There's also this quote.

"Heat System Design Notes: We have decided to make some back end changes to the way the heat threshold system is calculated in order to address a number of heat related display bugs that resulted in irregular heat bar behavior when components where destroyed out from under a player while they still had accumulated heat. While this change is mostly targeted to remove these heat display bugs, this will carry with it some shifts to the way that the heat system works. Especially when it comes to 'Mechs that are redlining and have their components blown out from under them. We felt this change adds a slight bit more to the risk / reward factor for those that redline their 'Mechs close to the shutdown threshold, and is most apparent when a Clan XL or Inner Sphere Light side torso destruction penalty kicks in."

So yeah... it's pretty much meant to have you incline more to using IS XL and STD engines if you can't manage your heat.
My ballistic builds (using mostly Clan XL as I don't have many LFEs) are completely unaffected by the nerf. And since I was never into laser vomit, my energy builds that do have a number of lasers never alpha enough heat so close together as to have to worry about it. I've been shut down once in combat by this nerf. In practice and testing quite a bit more of course (in extreme cases of heatsink loss, the low point I hit was 67% for a shutdown but it was a literal heatsink boat with maxed skill tree bonuses for heatsinks under operations.)

Best damn explanation I ever did read on the engine changes. I wish the devs would have laid it out like this. As for the old school double heat sink boating. I still do this, of course I was running lean on heat sinks on some mechs. Let me see if I follow this correctly. Your claim is if you remove the heat sinks from the side torsos, you lesson the heat spike dramatically , when a side torso gets blown off? What if you put the heat sinks in the arms, would the effect still be the same. Right now I am hearing for operations to be effective you need a minimum of 14/10 heat sinks. Not using the side torsos is allot of lost crit space for heat sinks.

[Koniving]

Lances107, on 01 March 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

Best damn explanation I ever did read on the engine changes. I wish the devs would have laid it out like this. As for the old school double heat sink boating. I still do this, of course I was running lean on heat sinks on some mechs. Let me see if I follow this correctly. Your claim is if you remove the heat sinks from the side torsos, you lesson the heat spike dramatically , when a side torso gets blown off? What if you put the heat sinks in the arms, would the effect still be the same. Right now I am hearing for operations to be effective you need a minimum of 14/10 heat sinks. Not using the side torsos is allot of lost crit space for heat sinks.

The way losing a percentage works... the more there is to lose, the more you lose.

Lets say you have 40.
You lose 20% (random number, but not, will explain later.)
You now have 32. You lost 8.


What if you had 30?
You now have 24. You lost 6.

With the heatsink changes they also rolled, the average player has between 50 and 60 threshold. It's possible to go beyond this, of course, using a combination of carrying plenty of heatsinks and skill tree. The only ones to really have a need to do so however are laser vomit boats in order to mitigate their heat...since they need a high heat ceiling.

But continuing the heatsink example, lets say you have 60 and you use 20%.
You're down to 48, meaning you lost 12 units.

In the past, Clan XL engines suffered a loss of 2 Engine Heatsinks worth of threshold when the ST was destroyed, according to the http://www.mercstar....ed-12-30-15.pdf guide on page 24. I wanted something more concrete than that but I'm not gonna keep digging as most of the threads I'm finding are people bitching about how drastic that is...and then in 2016 people saying it really didn't affect their love for Clan mechs.

Anyway, since in the past there was a cap to how much you lost, and it was 20% of your engine heatsinks (the base 10 which would be 2 as per the guide), or as I understood it, 20% of the total in your engine + slots aka the base ten + anything in the slots)...
Well lets pick that apart.

In the past if your Clan XL had been anything under 275, you'd lose 2 out of 10, which was 4 threshold and 0.4/sec cooling. That's it, a slap on the wrist. If you were a Timber Wolf, if what most of us understood was true, you'd lose 20% of the base 10 + the 5 in the engine slots (so basing the slots on 1.5 sinks) you'd lose 5.5 threshold. Another slap on the wrist.

Anyway...
Now if you lose 20% as a Timber Wolf with only the locked heatsinks of the engine (and remember it includes the total pool not just those of the engine, which includes the BASE 30 on top of the heatsinks present) you lose 11.5 threshold. But that's assuming the old heatsink fiasco. The new heatsinks (30 base + 20 threshold for the first 10 heatsinks + 0.5 threshold for each additional DHS). As such the Timber Wolf has 15 DHS. So 30 + 20 = 50. + 0.5 * 5 = 52.5 threshold. Lose that 20% for engine loss. Bam! 10.5 threshold lost! But wait, yes that's for the whole schabang at the top of this skill-tree-excluding pool, but! What if that means we lost those 5 heatsinks? (It doesn't, we lost 20% of those too, but just saying) then it'd be a hit of 13 threshold. Nearly a Clan ER PPC's worth of heat that you can no longer generate.

Now lets take a mech that has 8 DHS between the side torso and the arm in addition to 3 in the engine.
You lost 20% of the total first...
So from 55, you lost 11 immediately. Now to account for the heatsinks in the ST and the arm. 4 threshold (so 15 threshold) is immediately lost. This is assuming that any heatsinks of the engine do not also count as lost, if you also lost (in addition to before, the "2" heatsinks" as well as the 20% then it's actually 16 you lose).

Now it doesn't just take your threshold, it robs your cooling too by 20% and also removes the heatsinks you physically lost by their full amount and not just a percentage.
But its more devastating to cooling as each heatsink lost doesn't penalize you by 0.5... it penalizes you by 0.22 per heatsink lost as well. So in the case above the threshold is 55 but the cooling is 4.2 per second, and we rob 20% of that brings you down to 3.36 per second, plus we lost 8 heatsinks in the process and now you're at 1.6 cooling per second. You. Just. Got. ******. Over.

It isn't the engine nerf that's getting you. It's the heatsinks.

Take that same engine nerf, but no heatsinks in the ST or the arm.
50 + 3 DHS in the engine at 0.5 threshold = 51.5
Lose 20% or 10.3 and you're at 41.2 units of threshold.
Your heatsink cooling power takes the initial 20% hit from a total power of 13 worth (2.66/second cooling) and you're at 2.128/second cooling. The guy above lost a total cooling power of 2.6 heat/second, this guy lost a total cooling power of 0.532 heat/second.

Who got screwed more? The guy with more heatsinks.
That said, the guy with a lot less has greater hardships before the fact, due to not having quite as high of a rate of cooling (though the heat cap isn't that different).

Edited by Koniving, 01 March 2019 - 09:00 PM.

[Koniving]

(For the purpose of that post I left it at you lost 20% of your engine's heatsinks for the past. But technically, you could lose 20% of the engine's heatsinks + 5 or 10% of the base 10 as a maximum potential for any heatsinks lost in the past. So... it was still a slap on the wrist that barely anyone could feel. Since a total of 25% or 30% of the base 10 [so 25% [5 points] or 30% [6] points is a slap on the wrist...considering back then you could get a total threshold of between 110 to somewhat over 120 if you boated heatsinks... it'd be better to call that penalty a joke. Now it's a bigger chunk of a smaller pie, and the more you load up on pie the more you get screwed on it.).

[Thorn Hallis]

Why no better heat management?

[RickySpanish]

Thorn Hallis, on 01 March 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

Why no better heat management?

Why learn to play better when you can rage on the forums?

[Oberst Wilhelm Klink]

Antares102, on 28 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Tweet Russ.. nothing else will work.
PGI has never changed anythign through forum posts.

Fixed that for you.

thievingmagpi, on 28 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

PGI listens to its community!

Looks like we are living in different universes.

[Grus]

RickySpanish, on 01 March 2019 - 11:59 PM, said:

Why learn to play better when you can rage on the forums?

It's more about firepower disparity than "skill".

[Asym]

Thorn Hallis, on 01 March 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

Why no better heat management?

All I've seen since I've been back playing are Laser Meta's that alpha and over heat and die.......game after game after game....

It's gotten tot he point that I wonder if those pilots even know about heat management. We lose a lot of matches when the last three or four mechs do nothing but over-heat and die???

Skill? I wonder why we are seeing this every match........is there a learning curve issue or is it just "no one really cares" anymore? I don't know, I haven't over-heat and died in a very long time.......

[Tarl Cabot]

First, true on the way percentages work, the more there is the more items to lose. On the other side the more you have the more you gain from it too....

Quote

In the past if your Clan XL had been anything under 275, you'd lose 2 out of 10, which was 4 threshold and 0.4/sec cooling. That's it, a slap on the wrist. If you were a Timber Wolf, if what most of us understood was true, you'd lose 20% of the base 10 + the 5 in the engine slots (so basing the slots on 1.5 sinks) you'd lose 5.5 threshold. Another slap on the wrist.

First, you are using the wrong figures for your external HS. And it was the integral engine HS that were removed, the slot eHS were used for calculation but were not removed (see link to Oct 2014 patch notes). Even then DHS capacity 1.5, prior to that is was 1.4 or such and not the 0.5 when PGI had changed the overall external HS capacity in Oct 2018. And even then the destroyed HS capacity was being removed from the bottom instead of the top, which went live in Dec 2018.

https://mwomercs.com...39-07-oct-2014/

• New heat penalties when a 'Mech equipped with a Clan XL engine loses a side torso.
  
• The 'Mech will lose 20% of the heat sinks in the engine.
  
• This percentage is calculated as the total of the heat sinks integral to the engine as well as any equipped in its heat sink slots.
  
• The lost heat sinks are removed from those integral to the engine.

And from the Oct 2014 roadmap, before the Oct 2014 patch came out. It lacked the detail of the integral HS of the patch.




https://mwomercs.com...tober-road-map/

Quote

Anyway...

Now if you lose 20% as a Timber Wolf with only the locked heatsinks of the engine (and remember it includes the total pool not just those of the engine, which includes the BASE 30 on top of the heatsinks present) you lose 11.5 threshold. But that's assuming the old heatsink fiasco. The new heatsinks (30 base + 20 threshold for the first 10 heatsinks + 0.5 threshold for each additional DHS). As such the Timber Wolf has 15 DHS. So 30 + 20 = 50. + 0.5 * 5 = 52.5 threshold. Lose that 20% for engine loss. Bam! 10.5 threshold lost! But wait, yes that's for the whole schabang at the top of this skill-tree-excluding pool, but! What if that means we lost those 5 heatsinks? (It doesn't, we lost 20% of those too, but just saying) then it'd be a hit of 13 threshold. Nearly a Clan ER PPC's worth of heat that you can no longer generate.

At least you got the threshold correct, but only after the Oct 2018 patch....and you should really utilize percentages to make it clearer but even then, your calculations would only be good after Oct 2018 patch.

So 30 + 20 = 50. + 0.5 * 5 = 52.5 threshold (capacity on 100% heat bar/scale)

20 % side Torso loss was patched in Oct 2014 but it was bumped up to 40% Jan 2017 patch. That Mercstar pdf is 2 years prior to that patch. I did try to include links to the patch notes and the dates...

Destroyed ST of a mech equipped with cXL/LFE containing total 15 HS = 10 integral + 5 engine slot

40% of 15 HS = 6 out of the 15 destroyed and those 6 are the integral engines HS. This leaves 4 integral HS + 5 slot HS.

30 + 4*2 +5*0.5 = 30 + 8 + 2.50 = 40.50 threshold/capacity, the NEW 100% heat bar/scale

40.5 / 52.5 = .7714 = 77.14% of original Heat scale/bar, losing 22.86% capacity/threshold of the previous heat scale/bar.

Prior to the Dec 2018 patch that capacity was being removed from the bottom of the heat scale/bar. Now lets see what 20% loss would do.

20% out of 15 HS (integral+slot) would be 3 integral HS. 30 + 7*2 + 5*0.5 = 46.5, the new 100% capacity heat bar/scale

46.5 / 52.5 = 88.57% of the original heat scale/bar left, losing 11.43%

***************
Before the Jan 2017 patch that saw cXL heat penalty changed from 20% to 40%. HS capacity was changed in 2016 to 1.5, not yet located the actual patch notes /shrugs.

30 + 10*2 + 5*1.5 = 30 + 20 + 7.5 = 57.5 capacity/threshold

Still 20% out of 15 HS (integral+slot) would be 3 integral HS.

30 + 7*2 + 5*1.5 = 30 + 14 + 7.5 = 51.5 new capacity/threshold

51.5 / 57.5 = .89565 or 89.57%, a 10.43% loss in capacity, but then it was still be removed from the bottom, not the top. And for the external HS, one lost greater capacity, even from the bottom, by 1.5 per DHS instead of the current 0.5 per DHS

Should the removal from the top that came with the Dec 2018 be removed? imho, NO. It does open up the door of changing the penalty percentage itself, at least lowering the percentage of how much capacity is lost since PGI has demonstrated the ability to break those components into separate values, such as the cXl from 40% to 30%, the LFE from 40% to 20%. It still would not save those who go in, are heavily and redlining the Heat Bar. Reward vs Risk

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 March 2019 - 12:56 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Asym, on 02 March 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

All I've seen since I've been back playing are Laser Meta's that alpha and over heat and die.......game after game after game....

It's gotten tot he point that I wonder if those pilots even know about heat management. We lose a lot of matches when the last three or four mechs do nothing but over-heat and die???

Skill? I wonder why we are seeing this every match........is there a learning curve issue or is it just "no one really cares" anymore? I don't know, I haven't over-heat and died in a very long time.......

To be honest, your not seeing what is really going on. First, heat management is about being able to ride your mech right at the red line for as much as possible throughout the entire duration of the match. If your keeping your heat at 90% consistently throughout the match that means your outputting maximum DPS and this is a good thing.

However, with the heat spike you suffer when losing a ST, being at 90% is very often an immediate death sentence because the second you lose that ST, all that heat dumps directly back into the engine and often as not, your mech instantly goes boom. Sure you see the message that XXX player has killed himself, but that isn't because of poor heat management, that is because he was riding 90% when the enemy team popped his ST and sent his engine into heat overload which is 100% beyond the players control. Honestly, this is exactly what the OP is complaining about. How all the heat is dumped into the engine on ST loss.

[Tarl Cabot]

Though same effect the heat is not being dumped back into it, that 100% bar is be reduced from the top. And it is lack of heat management when the player fails to utilize the tools he has that makes him aware of badly damage the mech is and how close he is to losing a side torso, which he is aware will have a direct effect on his heat capacity.... It about falls in the same scenario of hitting the Override button with the intent of trying to take out your target with you, but now that threshold has been lowered, but only comes into play when a ST is lost.

If one is at 90%, and using the mech with cXL total 15 HS and no Skills, that heat bar would be reduced by 22.86%. And this is with the 40% heat penalty.

100% -- 90% -- 77.14%

Now a player is 12.86% in the red. Should it be removed? No.. but could it be reduced? Yes. It also could open up the door to allow isXL to survive the ST loss using the 40% penalty while the cXL could be reduced to 30% or less and the LFE to 20% or less.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 March 2019 - 01:06 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

Are you still playing? Jarl's List shows you as retired..

Anyway, if I understand your wall of text correctly, you just count the engine heatsinks when you are calculating your new threshold. You are ignoring the heatsinks that were originally in that side torso, as well as the arms... Or am I missing something?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Tarl Cabot, on 02 March 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

Though same effect the heat is not being dumped back into it, that 100% bar is be reduced from the top. And it is lack of heat management when the player fails to utilize the tools he has that makes him aware of badly damage the mech is and how close he is to losing a side torso, which he is aware will have a direct effect on his heat capacity....

If one is at 90%, and using the mech with cXL total 15 HS and no Skills, that heat bar would be reduced by 22.86%. And this is with the 40% heat penalty.

100% -- 90% -- 77.14%

Now a player is 12.86% in the red. Should it be removed? No.. but could it be reduced? Yes. It also could open up the door to allow isXL to survive the ST loss using the 40% penalty while the cXL could be reduced to 30% or less and the LFE to 20% or less.

Hey I am all for something that buffs the IS XLs without crippling Clan XLs and LFEs, that would have been the best option but PGI didn't go that way.

As far as the debate about heat management, so what you saying is that if my ST is stripped and I am pretty close to losing my ST, that I should reduce my firing rate to drop my heat usage to at max maybe 60% to avoid the possibly of blowing up when the side torso finally goes? That really is just crazy. What if I don't lose my ST? How does dropping my DPS output by 40% just in case something happens help my team win? No sorry, you need to keep going balls to the wall while doing your best to shield your ST, because that is what wins matches and improves your post match scores. You can't go all timid just because you might die, hell that is a campers mindset because lets face it, the second you show yourself to fire at an enemy, it might kill you with a lucky head shot, even if your 100% fresh. Also I do not care how skillful you are at shielding a damaged torso your not always going to be able to protect yourself against everything.

Finally lets talk about what this really is. This is PGI's way of making Clan XLs and IS LFEs equal to IS XLs. Your SUPPOSED to die when you lose a ST. Balancing problem solved....the PGI way.

[Koniving]

Tarl Cabot, on 02 March 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

I was going for a time back in 2014/2015 when thresholds could be gamed to nearly/over 100 to show the maximum effect of the "wrist slap", without going for a specific patch but the greatest slap of the initial penalties. (Wasn't aware of or probably forgot about the 2017 patch, and figured anything in between the earliest and latest stuff was unnecessary word salad in an already long post). (Also admit I never bothered to pump in the old skill tree as I originally intended.)

Only the post-2018 patch was looked at for complete accuracy (barring missing the 2017 patch bump to 40%), the prior stuff was going for the maximum penalty possible, and basically you've showed that it actually was an even wimpier wrist slap than I did. Is it still considered a wrist slap when PGI just taps our wrists with a finger and says "penalty." Because that's all it really was. Though the 40% instead of 20% gives more credence to the engine penalty and helps it fall in line with the heatsink penalty..

Now the engine + heatsink penalties are like

Meanwhile even at 40%, the engine thing with low heatsinks and a DPS rig is still a joke that can be pretty much ignored. "I better slow down my firing, I'm gonna lose a side torso. Oh, it's been gone for like 3 minutes... Huh. Neat."

Side note: Is it still 40% or did they tone it back to 20%? Because the engine by itself with low heatsink numbers really does feel like love tap.

Edited by Koniving, 02 March 2019 - 01:34 PM.

[Kodyn]

RickySpanish, on 01 March 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

Don't tell me your side torso exploding just suddenly happened. "Like omgawd! It just totes vanished and now I'm stunlocked!" Torsos don't just evapourate unless you are in a Piranha. You can comfortably red line while your torsos have at least yellow structure in a heavy. But yeah, when you start taking major component damage you really DO need to start paying attention! I'm sorry if it is somehow taxing to check your paper doll every couple of seconds to stay on top of things. If that IS a real problem, just override shutdown all day and eat a cool shot. Options people; you have them!

Don't tell me you're really this clueless....it's not happening when you're red-lined only, it can happen on as low as 75% heat, as mentioned in this thread multiple times, or as you could find out yourself within several matches of experimentation. So your solution is for every player to simply never let their heat get above about 74%, after we've had an entirely different heat scale to work with and get used to for years now? Sure, that makes sense.

The sky isn't falling- while it's not a good change, it improves nothing and it's irritating- it's also not the end of the world. I've died a good number of times to it and have adjusted some mech builds and how I play as a result. I'd still be in the camp of wanting to see it fixed or reverted however.

[Prototelis]

Decent players aren't affected. This has a negligible affect on Sustained DPS. It isn't fun.

[Tarl Cabot]

It is still 40% penalty of the HS in the engine, that percentage counting both integral and slotted, but with the integral HS being removed. If PGI had set it up to remove it from the top instead of the bottom when they added the cXL heat penalty, I do not believe they would have increased heat penalty 40% 3 years later.

There is a serious risk now, whereas before the risk was minimal because it was removing the capacity from the bottom of the bar. All it meant then was that when firing a weapon a greater PERCENTAGE of the heat bar was consumed. Oh my I am just over 100% and now I have lost a ST, and my dissipation rate has dropped.. I am glad I had override enabled... Yes,, let me skedaddle out of here and cool down a little bit...

So why wait until ya redlining and about to lose that ST? Risk vs Reward...

And for this account currently being retired, hai, it is taking a backseat, even though it has over 1 billion Cbills, 80k MC, almost 3 years of Premium time... My alt is not locked into a unit and faction. Started off as a test, then ran it during events, especially FP events with the ability to jump from Clan to IS and faction to faction. I am a masochists at times but waiting 30+ minutes for a game when switching sides allows for an almost instant drop? Still run it primarily for events, esp with FP being non-existent. Just entered Tier 2 after about 250 games after a years time, average 340 MS in QP, using primarily free mechs, trial mechs, a couple of mechs purchased with earned MC or Cbills, about 20 mechs in all, 2 Assaults, 5 heavies, 9 mediums, 4 lights (no massed MG). No RL funds have touched that account. Ya know one is in a T2/T1 match when nothing but saltiness spills out every other match....

At the moment the only real saltiness I have is for FP, or the lack thereof and the isXL engine ST death, more so in the current Off the Top Hear Bar/Scale environment. Change the isXL to the current cXL/LFE ST destroyed percentages while reducing both the cXL and LFE, with the LFE the most while the cXL sits in the middle.

Example. Still using that cXL/LFE with engine w/10 integral + 5 slotted, no extra HS nor skills

Before ST loss 30 + 20 = 50. + 0.5 * 5 = 52.5 capacity of the Heat bar/scale (100%)

isXL - 40% (6 eHS lost)
40.5 / 52.5 = .7714 = 77.14% of original Heat scale/bar, losing 22.86% capacity/threshold of the previous heat scale/bar.

cXL - 20% (3 eHS lost)
46.5 / 52.5 = .88565 = 88.57% of the original heat scale/bar left, losing 11.43%

LFE - 10% (1.5 eHS lost = 1 destroyed and 1 only partially functioning)
49.5 / 52.5 = .94286 or 94.29% of the original heat scale/bar capacity, losing 5.71% capacity.

Of course the percentage would drop when there are fewer slotted HS used since the calculations is based on BOTH integral/slotted. It is the only way that those mechs which are benefitting by saving crit space from putting heat sinks into the engine slots. Of course PGI COULD change how that penalty is distributed, provided they know where and how to change that code..../shudders...

It would opens up the door for when/if PGI adds Clan omnis, reduces the overall confusion from new players who may be drawn into MWO when MW5 goes lives and is played out, and puts the trial mechs (Champions) on a more leveled playing field for said new players, whether they are new to the Battletech as a whole or had previously played the early MW games or MPBT.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 March 2019 - 05:36 PM.

[R Valentine]

Tarl Cabot, on 02 March 2019 - 05:12 PM, said:

It is still 40% penalty of the HS in the engine, that percentage counting both integral and slotted, but with the integral HS being removed. If PGI had set it up to remove it from the top instead of the bottom when they added the cXL heat penalty, I do not believe they would have increased heat penalty 40% 3 years later.

There is a serious risk now, whereas before the risk was minimal because it was removing the capacity from the bottom of the bar. All it meant then was that when firing a weapon a greater PERCENTAGE of the heat bar was consumed. Oh my I am just over 100% and now I have lost a ST, and my dissipation rate has dropped.. I am glad I had override enabled... Yes,, let me skedaddle out of here and cool down a little bit...

So why wait until ya redlining and about to lose that ST? Risk vs Reward...

And for this account currently being retired, hai, it is taking a backseat, even though it has over 1 billion Cbills, 80k MC, almost 3 years of Premium time... My alt is not locked into a unit and faction. Started off as a test, then ran it during events, especially FP events with the ability to jump from Clan to IS and faction to faction. I am a masochists at times but waiting 30+ minutes for a game when switching sides allows for an almost instant drop? Still run it primarily for events, esp with FP being non-existent. Just entered Tier 2 after about 250 games after a years time, average 340 MS in QP, using primarily free mechs, trial mechs, a couple of mechs purchased with earned MC or Cbills, about 20 mechs in all, 2 Assaults, 5 heavies, 9 mediums, 4 lights (no massed MG). No RL funds have touched that account. Ya know one is in a T2/T1 match when nothing but saltiness spills out every other match....

At the moment the only real saltiness I have is for FP, or the lack thereof and the isXL engine ST death, more so in the current Off the Top Hear Bar/Scale environment. Change the isXL to the current cXL/LFE ST destroyed percentages while reducing both the cXL and LFE, with the LFE the most while the cXL sits in the middle.

Example. Still using that cXL/LFE with engine w/10 integral + 5 slotted, no extra HS nor skills

Before ST loss 30 + 20 = 50. + 0.5 * 5 = 52.5 capacity of the Heat bar/scale (100%)

isXL - 40% (6 eHS lost)
40.5 / 52.5 = .7714 = 77.14% of original Heat scale/bar, losing 22.86% capacity/threshold of the previous heat scale/bar.

cXL - 20% (3 eHS lost)
46.5 / 52.5 = .88565 = 88.57% of the original heat scale/bar left, losing 11.43%

LFE - 10% (1.5 eHS lost = 1 destroyed and 1 only partially functioning)
49.5 / 52.5 = .94286 or 94.29% of the original heat scale/bar capacity, losing 5.71% capacity.

Of course the percentage would drop when there are fewer slotted HS used since the calculations is based on BOTH integral/slotted. It is the only way that those mechs which are benefitting by saving crit space from putting heat sinks into the engine slots. Of course PGI COULD change how that penalty is distributed, provided they know where and how to change that code..../shudders...

It would opens up the door for when/if PGI adds Clan omnis, reduces the overall confusion from new players who may be drawn into MWO when MW5 goes lives and is played out, and puts the trial mechs (Champions) on a more leveled playing field for said new players, whether they are new to the Battletech as a whole or had previously played the early MW games or MPBT.

You keep spamming walls of text like losing an ST means nothing. Nevermind the weapons, equipment, heat sinks, and the speed penalty you incurred for losing an ST. It was never a "slap on the wrist" like you claim, unless you truly dead-sided your mech, which you can still do, you just need another engine. But for everyone else who put weapons or equipment in that side, losing an ST was always devastating. We don't call it being "halved" for nothing. Half your guns drastically reduces damage output, and even on a mech like the EXE where all the weapons are in one side, all the heat management is in the other half so losing a torso there essentially relegates you to chain firing medium lasers. This was a change that was neither needed nor asked for nor does it even make sense. Nor did it suddenly nerf clan and make IS better. Everyone got screwed with this change.