137 replies to this topic

[Acersecomic]

Agreed! So few are using it. I try to field it on most mechs I can and recently I bought the KitFox just so I can compensate for the teams a little. Sadly I'm still confused on how to also make it a good damage dealer haha.
But I try to put it on everything. Recently dropped my MadCatIIB to 325XL engine so I can put an AMS on.
Sadly even I sometimes choose to go for more firepower instead of an AMS. You know what annoys me? That time when you have tonnage for a weapon on the IS side but you can't because you have no more slots because your AMS or Ammo takes up that one slot for it...

Edited by Acersecomic, 01 March 2019 - 02:19 PM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Weapons, Armor, Heatsinks, Engine, Consumables. A real mechwarrior does not need anything else. (Same goes for quirks)

You don't need AMS when you can shoot at the LURM boats and make them back off/turn away and lose lock.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 01 March 2019 - 02:29 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

I only have ams on mechs that arnt absurdly tightly built, like my kintaro has 0 slots to work with even if I removed a heatsink and shaved off half a ton of armor for a AMS but my VT-6M has plenty of space and weight so it carries a AMS for team support and to soften the sting of streaks.

[Lykaon]

MechWarrior Black Knight, on 01 March 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

i dont agree , in assault you cant fast find cover in most situation, and you will stuck behind it, if 3 lrm boats fire at you if you go out you die , so in many situation you are locked in that position and then other enemy mechs find you and kill you , in quick play its easy way to get separated when your team dont care about you.
If evryone will have 1 ams you can move in open area and dont give a f**k

The situation you just outlined is exactly how not to use cover. You don't find cover and sit stationary you use the cover to block LOS while you move (Defilade).

There are some unalterable factors to LRM fire.

LRMs requires a lock to fire effectively.
Missile damage is diffused damage and not pin point.
Missile velocity is very low.
All lock on weapons have a cooldown

These are all exploitable weaknesses that you can learn to take advantage of while using clover to CLOSE the distance and under run LRM carriers.

Another important factor in understanding LRM counter play is ECM/AMS/Radar Dep. are not stand alone defenses they are a part of a successful LRM counter strategy.

Just like how finding cover and staying pinned down is not a complete strategy. Finding cover is step one of a counter plan not the whole plan.

[Phoenix Lead]

Hazeclaw, on 01 March 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

ams takes weight and slots, and many builds need every 0.5 ton they can get for their primary loadout to be as effective as it can be.

An interesting point you bring up, but allow me to counter...

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, JUST MAYBE... that's intentional?

See, you say for the optimal loadout, every .5 tons is important... and you're right, if you're minmaxing. And here's the rub... Battletech, and by extension, Mechwarrior, was never intended for you to min/max your loadouts... yes, you have unfettered customization [at least as far as location based hardpoints are concerned] but that inherently breaks whatever "Balance" there was to the game in the first place, so now, PGI is stuck in a position where they must balance a game around a mechanic that is being abused by it's playerbase...

And I know, everyone wants to min-max to their hearts content,but the truth of the matter is, these games are not built for that, that's not how battlemechs are intended to work, let alone how the game was intended to be balanced around... and now, every creator of a mechwarrior title that's included multiplayer has had to contend with that fact... and it leads to the same old problems we always see... x is over performing, y is under performing, and z never get's utilized at all...

I honestly, don't envy PGI one bit, considering what they have to deal with concerning all of this... between people who can do nothing but whine on the forums, to the clear, calculated imbalances that are shown in game data... they have to do things in a way to keep some symbolance of balance in a system that's inherently tilted AWAY from balance.

in the event we ever get a MWO2, or an enhanced multiplayer for MW5... I feel sorry for whoever ends up working on the balancing, because it'll never be what everyone wants... especially considering the systems at play.

EVERYONE, seems like they have an answer to the problem, but the reality is, there is no real answer to the problem, only minor constant tweaks to try to get things passable.

[VonBruinwald]

Phoenix Lead, on 01 March 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

Snip...

Two best ways to achieve balance:

• Remove ClanTech
  
• Remove MekLab

[HammerMaster]

AMS use is dice roll.
Sometimes feels like everyone has (especially when I run one ALRM20) and EVERYONE is iron domed.
Sometimes feels like NO ONE has (especially when I'm on the receiving end of StuporNOVA lrm800).
So answer is.
Depends.

[Phoenix Lead]

VonBruinwald, on 01 March 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Two best ways to achieve balance:

• Remove ClanTech
  
• Remove MekLab

Exactly why I'm excited for MW5.

[HammerMaster]

VonBruinwald, on 01 March 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Two best ways to achieve balance:

• Remove ClanTech
  
• Remove MekLab

CLANS!
Ruining BattleTech Since 1989!

[VulcanXIV]

Darakor Stormwind, on 01 March 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

You might want to try a Crab 27, then, one of those days. It is a lot more sturdy than the Hawk and can also field 2 AMS. Okay, it is laser vomit, but it has quite good utility and can take quite some AMS ammo as well. I have one version with 11K rounds. That is 5 tons. And can take down about 1500-1750 missiles. Due to the fighting ability of the Crab, it is less of a liability than the Hawk.

HISSSSSSSSSSSSS

[VonBruinwald]

HammerMaster, on 01 March 2019 - 03:37 PM, said:

CLANS!
Ruining BattleTech Since 1989!

HammerMaster, on 31 January 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

I'll tell you what the problem is.
Clans.
Breaking the game since 1990.

VonBruinwald, on 31 January 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

Ahem... 3049. Stop living in the past.

Deja Vu.

[K O Z A K]

Phoenix Lead, on 01 March 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

An interesting point you bring up, but allow me to counter...

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, JUST MAYBE... that's intentional?

See, you say for the optimal loadout, every .5 tons is important... and you're right, if you're minmaxing. And here's the rub... Battletech, and by extension, Mechwarrior, was never intended for you to min/max your loadouts... yes, you have unfettered customization [at least as far as location based hardpoints are concerned] but that inherently breaks whatever "Balance" there was to the game in the first place, so now, PGI is stuck in a position where they must balance a game around a mechanic that is being abused by it's playerbase...

And I know, everyone wants to min-max to their hearts content,but the truth of the matter is, these games are not built for that, that's not how battlemechs are intended to work, let alone how the game was intended to be balanced around... and now, every creator of a mechwarrior title that's included multiplayer has had to contend with that fact... and it leads to the same old problems we always see... x is over performing, y is under performing, and z never get's utilized at all...

I honestly, don't envy PGI one bit, considering what they have to deal with concerning all of this... between people who can do nothing but whine on the forums, to the clear, calculated imbalances that are shown in game data... they have to do things in a way to keep some symbolance of balance in a system that's inherently tilted AWAY from balance.

in the event we ever get a MWO2, or an enhanced multiplayer for MW5... I feel sorry for whoever ends up working on the balancing, because it'll never be what everyone wants... especially considering the systems at play.

EVERYONE, seems like they have an answer to the problem, but the reality is, there is no real answer to the problem, only minor constant tweaks to try to get things passable.

......ok?

I just explained why people don't bring ams, it takes up room and tonnage, and is only semi useful compared to weapons which are always useful

preventing people from customizing mechs actually creates a much smaller meta, with less top end mechs, you'd just see the same exact 5 mechs used by most players because they're the strongest out of the box

[Nightbird]

AMS is useless, take less than 10 LRM damage per match on average, better to put 1.5 tons elsewhere.

[VulcanXIV]

Nightbird, on 01 March 2019 - 04:18 PM, said:

AMS is useless, take less than 10 LRM damage per match on average, better to put 1.5 tons elsewhere.

Fake

news

[HammerMaster]

VonBruinwald, on 01 March 2019 - 03:42 PM, said:

Deja Vu.

Ya. I can't even quote myself properly!
1990 it is!
And still true!

Edited by HammerMaster, 01 March 2019 - 05:04 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

It really comes down to the simple fact that 2 tons of DHS is worth more than 2 tons of AMS and Ammo. DHS help the mech perform in any and all circumstances while AMS only defends against missiles and then only against some of the the missiles and your not always being shot at by missiles or you might even have good cover from missiles. Basically there is much greater impact with devoting the tonnage to DHS or honestly even things like an extra ton or two of ammo. Hell armor for that matter is always useful to have no matter what the situation.

[VulcanXIV]

Angel of Annihilation, on 01 March 2019 - 05:24 PM, said:

It really comes down to the simple fact that 2 tons of DHS is worth more than 2 tons of AMS and Ammo. DHS help the mech perform in any and all circumstances while AMS only defends against missiles and then only against some of the the missiles and your not always being shot at by missiles or you might even have good cover from missiles. Basically there is much greater impact with devoting the tonnage to DHS or honestly even things like an extra ton or two of ammo. Hell armor for that matter is always useful to have no matter what the situation.

I have just come to a realization that i've been suspecting for quite some time, after replying what i'm about to say in the reddit hub.

You sir, are fake news. You're a myth. The tier1 e-peen of ams being useless is. a. myth. Day after day after day people ***** about lrms in this SURREAL rhetoric about how PGI is buffing skill-less play. No, what you're REALLY saying is that LRM's are becoming strong enough to fear (despite such boaters already winning games practically 90% of the time), the thought of sacrificing 1-3 tons of minmaxing to the AMS gods TERRIFIES you.

Despite the tier1 e-peen constantly spouting that skill is the COMPLETE AND ONLY counter to lrm boats, people just ignore the common prevalence of 100-ton potatoes on their team who can't even use their entire mech properly. When did enemies/friendlies wasting an entire mech as an lrm boat become any different than the equally skill-less potatoes who can't even use their meta build properly or are using derpy builds? FAKE. NEWS.

FAKE

NEWS

The day everyone stops gasping at ams is the day LRM's become well and truly countered by definition, and then we can focus on working as a team to kill the heavily minmaxed clan laser vomit and heavy gauss fafnirs with communication and teamplay. One might even dare say that this ams-blasphemy is a symptom of the trashy alphawarrior online meta we have, where you either run a minmaxed monster that carries the entire team or you're just a waste of tonnage.

Literally ever single avenue of tier 1 e-peen preaching in this game is completely and utterly two faced.

LRM boats useless huh? They win the game constantly.

AMS useless you say? Yet people praise the kitfox martyrs or silently take advantage of the lucky situation that half their team is running ams and the enemy lrm is completely invalidated.

LRM's getting buffed into skill-less godhood, people raising pitchforks and quitting the game you cry? Oh, but skillful cover-usage COMPLETELY AND IRREFUTABLY invalidates LRMs. shuuuut the fuuuuuuck upppppp dude

I for one absolutely adore setting aside tonnage for ams. Utility is FUN and is the spice of life in ANY game. Even I sometimes remove ams completely in order to minmax my damage, but that's because I buy into the fake news every now and then that minmaxing your build is law (when in reality the only time that matters is when people are running absolutely boring meta trash and are expecting to single-handedly win the game).

I HEREBY ANNOUNCE THE AMS UPRISING.

Edited by VulcanXIV, 01 March 2019 - 06:45 PM.

[Nightbird]

LOL at people believing AMS protects from LRMs, esp in quick play. Only smart positioning protects from LRMs, and once you know smart positioning it's not worth spending 2 tons to protect your dumb allies.

[VulcanXIV]

Nightbird, on 01 March 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

LOL at people believing AMS protects from LRMs, esp in quick play. Only smart positioning protects from LRMs, and once you know smart positioning it's not worth spending 2 tons to protect your dumb allies.

AMS is usless when only one person runs it. Meanwhile the 2 double heat sinks you could argue run better for that amount of wasted tonnage do nothing but grant you 2 seconds of decreased time going from 100% to 0% heat at most (I've tested this, and with full cool run too).

Cover doesn't universally exist. Potato teammates not even running lrms do. LRM boats use ecm cancelling tag and narc anyway.

FAKE

NEWS

From now on I firmly declare anyone spouting this nonsense are actually lrm sympathizers.

Edited by VulcanXIV, 01 March 2019 - 06:44 PM.

[Nightbird]

VulcanXIV, on 01 March 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

From now on I firmly declare anyone spouting this nonsense are actually lrm sympathizers.

Point to one target in this video who could have survived with AMS, versus the many who did using positioning.