55 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

The6thMessenger, on 03 March 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

Are you kidding me?

Recoil, moron. Have you even shot a gun before? Isaac Newton, do you know him?

Such as you know you are shooting a more powerful round, if it has more powerful recoil by comparison. Such as a 9mm Luger vs a 45-ACP versus a 50-AE, a 357-Magnum vs a 44-Magnum, a 5.56-NATO vs 7.62-Soviet, or 7.62-NATO vs 338-Lapua vs 50-BMG. Idiot.



This high-recoil also, somewhat, contributes to lowered ROF to maintain accuracy over high recoil. Such as the difference of ROF between the 7.62-NATO FN MAG (650-1000 RPM), to the 338-Norma (stronger cartridge, at 500 RPM) that is the LWMMG. Of course that is designed by choice, but they had to take account of the stronger cartridge and have to lower the ROF so it becomes controllable.

As for the impact. Well, that depends how flashy the explosion, such as I don't need to tell you that a Nuclear Explosion from a Nuclear Missile would be a lot more impactful versus, say a MOAB, precisely because the Nuclear Missile has a larger fireball.

In this case however, I do implore a larger explosion from ATMs, with perhaps, slower volley ROF. If the ATMs are doing more damage/missile, wouldn't it makes sense to have a larger fireball?



Because it is. It's a comment to the current special effect, not the balance. As far as I'm concerned, if the missile-health is properly adjusted, it would still be doing similar damage/volley, though burst-of-damage would be normalized to that of ATMs.



Jesus. You just saw a thread and thought you could spam your idea?

Get the **** out.

Huh? I didnt spam any ideas. I just destroyed yours. And you threw a tantrum. lol. "GTFO" you so mad.

you get recoil regardless of whether you hit the target or not. you dont only get recoil if you hit something. regardless of whether you hit the target or not firing the gun feels the same. lmao. recoil isnt feedback that you damaged a target so recoil has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.

your whole complaint about atms is that they dont "feel" like they do any damage. And again... when someone shoots someone else the person firing the gun doesnt "feel" it. firing the gun (i.e. the recoil) "feels" exactly the same regardless of whether the bullet hits or not. The person firing the gun doesnt "feel" the gun do damage. So why would you "feel" ATMs do damage? The only person that should "feel" ATMs doing damage is the person getting hit by them. And believe me if youre getting hit by ATMs you feel it. They do broken damage.

And nobody getting hit by ATMs wants bigger explosions either. its bad enough when you get hit by autocannons in the cockpit you cant see !@#$ing anything. the last thing we need is ATMs blinding you too. the explosions arnt big for a reason. ITS DELIBERATE.

if you cant tell your ATMs are doing damage thats your problem. Dont screw up the game because of it.

Edited by Khobai, 03 March 2019 - 07:04 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

wow youre dumb. you get recoil regardless of whether you hit the target or not. you dont only get recoil if you hit something. lmao. regardless of whether you hit the target or not firing the gun feels the same.

youre complaining about atms not feeling like theyre doing any damage when they hit.

Are you serious? You were the one to use a "gun", which is a traditional firearm to compare to missile weapon. Likewise, do you know what is Action-Reaction? Such as if the BMG has 20 KJ muzzle-energy, it also means that the shooter would experience that, in the form of recoil.

Now perhaps you are pointing out the instance of shots not connecting to the target, but guess what, there's such a thing as Collateral Damage. Because believe it or not, bullets leave bullet-holes on concrete, on metal, etc. Why does it have to connect? Because if we were to follow your logic, then the ATMs shouldn't explode when it hits the ground or anything that cannot receive damage, the PPCs and ACs should also not explode on contact of the ground because they "wouldn't do any damage", because it has to connect.

As for guns, there are explosive rounds, which large-caliber shells use, such as the MK211 Raufoss for the .50-BMG, to the HEAT shells of the 120mm Rheinmetal tank-gun, even atomic warheads of the 280mm Cannon used in Upshot-Knothole Grable.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

Huh? I didnt spam any ideas. I just destroyed yours. And you threw a tantrum. lol. "GTFO" you so mad.

"Destroyed"? Spare me, you barely even know what you are talking about firearms, your analogy doesn't even work.

No, you didn't. You just spammed your idea.

This wasn't about balance, this was about aesthetic, about visual effects and the feel of the weapon.

And then you come to here, saying what ATMs should have been balance-wise, like what we have hearing from you over and over from multiple, different topics.

Spoiler

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

if anything the damage needs to be lowered on ATMs in the 120m-270m range because its broken as hell. And as a tradeoff for doing less damage their 120m deadzone should be removed and ATMs should get higher missile health. Its completely dumb that ATMs do less damage than CLRMs under 120m when ATMs are supposed to be the shorter range alternative to CLRMs. Also ATMs should get higher missile health because AMS is too effective against them.

Yes it's spam, what you just said is spam.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

your whole complaint about atms is that they dont feel like they do any damage.

Not "ANY" damage, rather that they don't look doing damage that they are actually doing.

Exactly, the FEEL. But regardless, there is the result, whether it's 800 damage on the scoreboard, or some poor **** getting wrecked. Feel, is completely different.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

And again... when someone shoots someone else the person firing the gun doesnt "feel" it. firing the gun feels the exactly the same regardless of whether the bullet hits or not. The person firing the gun doesnt feel the gun do damage. So why would you feel ATMs do damage? what youre asking for makes absolutely no sense.

Because, moron, Missiles and Guns are two different setups. One uses propulsion through pressure inside a barrel, the other is self-propelled. Comparing the overall experience in shooting between Guns and Missiles is different from one another. That is your mistake, don't you pin this on me.

First and foremost, the shooter actually feel the "damage", or at least the "energy", because recoil, and like Mythbusters tested, the impact of the bullet should provide similar energy like the recoil, which taking account of Hydrostatic Shock -- the "punch" should be similar to the energy that of the recoil.

Damage is completely dependent on how the bullet goes through a medium which is called Cavitaiton, and it's rather hard to quantify, however our brains does trick ourselves in feeling certain pain of others, like so.



It's the same "feel" you get when someone get kicked in the nuts, or when a hammer is smashed on a fake hand, you get an approximate feel of it. Or if you do get a hole in your body, cause you saw someone get shot.

As for ATMs, I would feel ATMs do damage, because, they explode. It's visual effects. You know it's doing SOMETHING, you feel something, because you see it happen, whether it's a massive fireball, or a bunch of debris on impact.



Imagine if ATMs still do 3 damage, but wouldn't explode. How satisfying would that be? If we took away the laser beams, the muzzle-flashes, the AC shells and explosions. Please tell me how fun it would be.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

and nobody wants bigger explosions other than you.

Yes, it's called opinion.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

the explosions arnt big for a reason.

We also don't have ammo switching and crit splitting for a reason. And the reason is that PGI is incompetent.

Merely having a reason isn't good. It must actually be a good reason.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

its bad enough when you get hit by autocannons you cant see !@#$ing anything. the last thing we need is ATMs blinding you too.

And there it is, your ulterior motive, you don't really have an argument. Sounds like your problem of being out of position, or out played. Someone got an angle on you, that's your fault. If it's blinding, you can either go Thermal, or learn.

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

if you cant tell your ATMs are doing damage thats your problem. Dont screw up the game because of it.

It's also my opinion, which I have the right to have. Also I do not have executive power.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 March 2019 - 07:37 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Khobai, on 03 March 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

when someone shoots someone with a gun they dont feel like theyve shot someone with a gun. The person they shot feels it.

No it's more like a feedback.

If i shoot an AC20 it goes "UMPF" not "pew", huge muzzle flash, i see a massive slug flying with heavy drop which implies weight behind it.

Slug hits someone, huge explosion, mech is visibly shaken, it just feels idk meaty i guess.
It feels meaty.

Or gauss, if it hit, sparks fly and the mech is shaken. Exactly what i would expect when i hit someone with it. It just feels right.


ATM on the other hand don't show you visually when you're hitting someone for 300% damage, no extra explosion.
They also don't show when you get hit for 3 damage instead of 1, some visual feedback or gameplay feedback would be nice and make the mechanic more believable and imersive.

[Koniving]

El Bandito, on 03 March 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

They gotta be brain dead not to notice getting hit by ATMs. There is even a missile warning.

Also, firing ATMs from 800-900 meters away is not optimal at all.

While I would agree, it doesn't always give a warning, and at longer ranges (where it is admittedly weaker), it sometimes doesn't even give a screen shake. (I admit as the recipient, I had a few screen shake reducing nodes, as the screen shake from getting a barrage does throw off your aim. That's something I learned while pitting LBX 2 versus UAC/2... where in the past the screen shake basically could flip you in your seat and the crosshair would never move or be thrown off so all you had to do was keep calm; yep that ain't the case anymore.) As such, that might be why? But I doubt the average player is using them, and they still seem blissfully unaware..

I mean they do react as if they had been shot, they look around, but they act like they're expecting a Piranha, checking tiny little corners and other nearby things meanwhile I'm up on top of a building cackling away. Its like B33f's point blank AMS and the Stalker. But in my case, it's like look far, look up, I'm on a CRANE! Course someone else saw me and basically one shot me with some laser vomit after the guy I was pestering with my ATMs lost his side torso. I mean I could get ignoring it if you're busy, but the guy would just look around, do a small circle, and cuddle right back up to his little spot to lob his LRMs.)

Actually thinking about it, my main example of it the player had stealth armor on, it wouldn't have been told anyway, I never did get a lock on him...
But you'd think it'd have booms, screen shake, and that terrible screen blur.

Edited by Koniving, 03 March 2019 - 07:53 PM.

[Koniving]

El Bandito, on 03 March 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

Also, firing ATMs from 800-900 meters away is not optimal at all.

Side note, we're talking about me here...
...Since when did I ever do anything "optimal?" Isn't that one meme going around in 2014 "Heresy, heresy everywhere"? I'm the guy that runs 4 firing groups and sometimes 5... and dances in front of bad guys and does stuff like "Pardon me, do you have any grey poupon" or creep right up on someone with a camera commando next to me to go "Hey, I'm Koniving" to stare at them point blank before shooting.

(That's actually how this shot was taken, though it is snapped after the first shot.)

[justcallme A S H]

Someone said I should come and read this for a laugh.

I got many more than I expected.

Continue on guys. This is great.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

justcallme A S H, on 03 March 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

Someone said I should come and read this for a laugh.

I got many more than I expected.

Continue on guys. This is great.

Erm, is it too far fetched to ask for a visual or audio feedback when an ATM boat does 150 damage instead of 50? I don't see what's comedically about it.

Supernova ATM boat melts like half the armor of an 60 ton mech in optimal range with one volley.
I dunno about you but i think it should look and feel different then getting hit by an lrm40 volley.

[R Valentine]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 04 March 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Erm, is it too far fetched to ask for a visual or audio feedback when an ATM boat does 150 damage instead of 50? I don't see what's comedically about it.

Supernova ATM boat melts like half the armor of an 60 ton mech in optimal range with one volley.
I dunno about you but i think it should look and feel different then getting hit by an lrm40 volley.

The weapon impact doesn't need to be different. I don't want more screen shake in this game. Just make the missiles more unique so they can be identified in flight more easily.

[Nightbird]

Just the sound effects IMO, needs to be louder.

[The pessimistic optimist]

That's a nice assault mech be a shame if something were to happen too it. SNV-A

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 March 2019 - 07:28 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Eww ERLL's with ATM's and two L-Tag's that won't protect you from a random light deciding you be it's big meal for the day.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Battlemaster56, on 04 March 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

Eww ERLL's with ATM's and two L-Tag's that won't protect you from a random light deciding you be it's big meal for the day.

Its a ATM vomit damage mech that build just fine for that.

[justcallme A S H]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 04 March 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Erm, is it too far fetched to ask for a visual or audio feedback when an ATM boat does 150 damage instead of 50?

So on top...

• The minimap
  
• The vision outside your cockpit
  
• Reticule

All of which give you an excellent indicator of distance.

And in addition to

• Incoming missile warning

You want a 5th notification for when a specific weapon is doing a specific amount of damage?


The thread just keeps getting better.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 04 March 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Erm, is it too far fetched to ask for a visual or audio feedback when an ATM boat does 150 damage instead of 50? I don't see what's comedically about it.

You tell how much damage has bin done by how badly your mech is damage;)

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 04 March 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

You tell how much damage has bin done by how badly your mech is damage;)

Aside from Target-Info, or destroyed component, that's hardly telling.

I'd rather we just have either larger explosions, and or longer volley-interval. It's just more fun that way.

Imagine if MWO has no SFX, no explosions, missiles hitting like darts despite dealing damage. I wouldn't be satisfied with that.

[Grus]

justcallme A S H, on 04 March 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

So on top...

• The minimap
  
• The vision outside your cockpit
  
• Reticule

All of which give you an excellent indicator of distance.

And in addition to

• Incoming missile warning

You want a 5th notification for when a specific weapon is doing a specific amount of damage?


The thread just keeps getting better.

I think he wants a floating HP tick like in WoT when you shoot another tank...

[Khobai]

The6thMessenger, on 04 March 2019 - 02:49 PM, said:

Aside from Target-Info, or destroyed component, that's hardly telling.

I'd rather we just have either larger explosions, and or longer volley-interval. It's just more fun that way.

Imagine if MWO has no SFX, no explosions, missiles hitting like darts despite dealing damage. I wouldn't be satisfied with that.

again how is getting blinded by explosions fun? oh its not.

ATMs doing 3 damage per missile is broken enough as is, they dont need to blind you too.

Edited by Khobai, 04 March 2019 - 03:34 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Grus, on 04 March 2019 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think he wants a floating HP tick like in WoT when you shoot another tank...

No, I want a larger boom, and/or longer volley-interval.

That being said, damage-display might be a bit helpful to tell if you are doing effective or ineffective damage. Imagine noobs shooting CERLLs at 1400 meters away, and they realize that they aren't actually doing effective damage so they adjust their position to go closer.

There's target-info already, specific numbers shouldn't be that far away from logic. We could probably get away with damage-display numbers when we have lock on targets.

Khobai, on 04 March 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

again how is getting blinded by explosions fun? oh its not.

Then again, blinding other people is, why larger boom is actually satisfying. Kinda why RACs are also fun.

That being said, who the hell even likes getting shot in the first place? Isn't it understood that the "fun" should be for the shooter?

Khobai, on 04 March 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

ATMs doing 3 damage per missile is broken enough as is, they dont need to blind you too.

If you are finding yourself at the other end, perhaps its your issue, either you're a stick-in-the-mud, or poorly positioned, or just got out-played to which you need to just move the **** on.

Nobody (I) don't like getting shot in the first place, why would ATMs being blinding be any different? That's practically like the "recoil whether you hit-or-not" argument you are posing. What's this hypocrisy now?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 March 2019 - 05:09 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Khobai, on 04 March 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

again how is getting blinded by explosions fun? oh its not.

ATMs doing 3 damage per missile is broken enough as is, they dont need to blind you too.

How about reducing the damage explosions and screenshake for 2 and 1 damage per missile done instead?

I agree that blinding and shaking is an issue but getting melted for 150 damage in one volley should result in a good feedback, both visually and mechanically. It shouldn't look and feel the same as getting hit for 40 lrm damage.

justcallme A S H, on 04 March 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

So on top...

• The minimap
  
• The vision outside your cockpit
  
• Reticule

All of which give you an excellent indicator of distance.


And in addition to

• Incoming missile warning

You want a 5th notification for when a specific weapon is doing a specific amount of damage?



The thread just keeps getting better.

If you shoot someone from 120 meter or 1200 meter the effect is literally the same, the difference in damage is 300% however.
Same vision, same effects, same missile warning.

I do not want a notification per se, i would much more favor ingame mechanics which indicates the amount of damage dealt.
For both parties, the one shooting and the one getting shot at.

More or less explosions is an example, higher screenshake is another.
I agree that the blinding effect is an issue, so why not increase amount for both within opimal range and reduce the amount of both outside?

I'd actually suggest the fuel burning as an indicator too, make change color depending on the distance, bright red after 120 meter to indicate the missile is armed, from then transition it ot yellow or whatever to indicate it does less damage.

Damage numbers popping up like an mmo is just aweful, i don't know why people bring that up. That doesn't add anything to the immersion, it actually takes away. It doesn't make the weapon feel more believable and it doesn't help the mech which recieved the missiles in the slightest.

A good ingame example for ingame feedback are lasers, they fade out after opimal range. If you get shoot at from 1500 meter you barely see the laserbeam and you can tell the laser isn't doing full damage.

[- World Eater -]

Never go a$$ to mouth.





(This was irrelevant and will get redacted)