274 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

thievingmagpi, on 15 March 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

AIMING OP TIME TO BUFF THE JOYSTICK STEERING WHEEL BUILDS

Fixed.

[The6thMessenger]

thievingmagpi, on 15 March 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

AIMING OP TIME TO BUFF THE JOYSTICK BUILDS

If properly-aimed builds would still come on top, why would it matter?

[thievingmagpi]

The6thMessenger, on 15 March 2019 - 09:47 PM, said:

If properly-aimed builds would still come on top, why would it matter?

because we don't want none of that nasty try hard meta hard "aiming" thing

[Tesunie]

thievingmagpi, on 15 March 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

because we don't want none of that nasty try hard meta hard "aiming" thing

That may strongly depend upon whom you refer to. I myself pair my LRMs with lasers, which compliment each other well as you must maintain your reticle on target to get a missile lock, and lasers don't need any lead time. So, I do plenty of "aiming", as on my LRM builds I tend to do about 50% of my damage with lasers.

Direct fire will still have advantages over LRMs, mostly because you have far more ability to land damage more or less where you want it (skill and HSR depending). On counterpoint LRMs spread, which prevents landing damage where you want it, but it can damage and take out components that an opponent is trying to shield.

Lets just say, dual H. Gauss is dangerous for a reason...

[Kroete]

Pixel Hunter, on 15 March 2019 - 07:54 AM, said:

it was close to a click I'm sure at least 800m...and yeah I had no time to get to cover, the highlander isn't exactly fast and there wasn't anything tall enough at that area to hide behind when crossing that middle valley.

So it was not the weapon,
but you call nerfs for it because you did stupid thinks like walking slowly in the open?

Wellcome in the age of the orange clown!

Edited by Kroete, 16 March 2019 - 01:43 AM.

[Erik Krieger]

Appogee thank you for your post. Everything u say in your first post about this topic is absolutly right! Every day the lrm spam gets worse... i am pissed and u explained perfectly why!

In 1 vs 1 Lrms are garbage, but not on a 12 vs 12 battlefield,

Lrm spam is ruining the gameplay and even complete Idiots are able to kill the best players in the whole wide world with lrms, if those are just in a fighting situation with other mechs or try to flank or do anyhting acitvely...

THANKS AGAIN APPOGEE! PGI, please listen to that voice of reason!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by noble S A V A G E, 16 March 2019 - 01:51 AM.

[YueFei]

Tesunie, on 15 March 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

What about those high alpha mechs that can one shot a medium mech to death? Aren't those fun to also fight against? Round a corner, see an opponent, lay down dead on the ground with not even a full alpha of damage to your name...

Well if that happens to you, then you didn't round that corner with the proper technique. I'm not being snarky. You gotta round the corner farther from the corner so that you have a better chance of seeing the opponent first, or at least seeing them at the same time. It's a perspective trick. Look up War Owl's CS:GO video on perspective.

It also helps that Mediums are typically skinnier than Assaults, which helps as well. Especially the smaller Mediums (40 tons or 45 tons) which are the most susceptible to being one-shotted. The idea is to corner so that you can see the Assault mech's arm/shoulder before he can fully see you, giving you time to react and twist.

I've never been one-shotted in any 50-ton or 55-ton Medium, except by headshot (which is still my own fault for not moving laterally to force a deflection shot that won't converge all weapons into my head hitbox), or backshot (which, again is my own damn fault).

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 15 March 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

Fixed.

You poor boy. This is my wheel:

[The6thMessenger]

thievingmagpi, on 15 March 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

because we don't want none of that nasty try hard meta hard "aiming" thing

If it's just a question of want, then really there's just an impasse of wants, and it seems like one side is just so entitled.

I'd rather do most of the aiming away and make the game even more about teamwork and strategy of said team. But that's just me.

Tesunie, on 15 March 2019 - 10:47 PM, said:

That may strongly depend upon whom you refer to. I myself pair my LRMs with lasers, which compliment each other well as you must maintain your reticle on target to get a missile lock, and lasers don't need any lead time. So, I do plenty of "aiming", as on my LRM builds I tend to do about 50% of my damage with lasers.

Direct fire will still have advantages over LRMs, mostly because you have far more ability to land damage more or less where you want it (skill and HSR depending). On counterpoint LRMs spread, which prevents landing damage where you want it, but it can damage and take out components that an opponent is trying to shield.

Lets just say, dual H. Gauss is dangerous for a reason...

ACs and LRMs are actually quite lovely pair.

Kroete, on 16 March 2019 - 01:34 AM, said:

Wellcome in the age of the orange clown!

Whether it was Hillary or Trump, everyone lost already when it was reduced to those two.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 March 2019 - 06:20 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Is the sky still falling over here?
Oh LRM.
TEARS!

[XDevilsChariotX]

I don't think Lrms should of went in a direct fire option to begin with in my opinion. We already have mrms/srms for that. I think this is going to be a mistake that may lower the player base. One thing I do know, if this game becomes mostly lrm vs lrm I'll be finding something else to play that's for sure.

[Tesunie]

XDevilsChariotX, on 16 March 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

I don't think Lrms should of went in a direct fire option to begin with in my opinion. We already have mrms/srms for that. I think this is going to be a mistake that may lower the player base. One thing I do know, if this game becomes mostly lrm vs lrm I'll be finding something else to play that's for sure.

Be prepared for LRM vs LRM for the initial release of the changes, as everyone will be wanting to check out the "new" weapon. Give it a week or two and things normally fall back to more or less normal. We've seen it every time a weapon get's changed in nearly any manner. (Much like when a new mech is released, normally ques for that weight class get higher in population count.)

[Pixel Hunter]

Tesunie, on 15 March 2019 - 08:24 AM, said:

Frozen city, correct? Which path did you choose to take? The D line is shortest, but has sparse cover until you get to the other side. One grid of vulnerability (D4 if I recall correctly) and also as a very predictable entrance back into the buildings.

E5 passage would be coverless, and not a reliable position to cross. The bridge does have a gully in E6 that can provide cover, if you can get there. However, it might also be easy to get trapped there as it only has two escape routes.

The F line has reasonable cover all along the path. It's probably one of the best spots to push across for it's cover, ability to break LoS as well as has tall enough obstructions to block incoming missiles almost the entire path over. The short gap in cover before entering into the upper city (either side) should be crossable by even assault mechs, especially if lights and mediums are just ahead sewing some chaos to grant time for the crossing.

G line crossing has some bridge pieces that can be used as cover. These are tall enough to block missiles, as well as has a section you can go under the bridge for additional protection. From there you can either go straight into the city (no cover), or go around to H6 for some blocking LoS walls and come up into the city for a F7 takeover. Not the "safest", but it's doable if you are going from the crashed dropship to the other side.


I'd also have to ask, how close where you to your teammates? How many of them (including yourself) had AMS? More than a single AMS on a single mech (dual AMS, triple AMS or the rare quad AMS mech)? Anyone with ECM (a bit more restrictive to chassis)? Where did you end up crossing to have no cover? Did you have JJ? Did you use said JJs to try and shift some of the missile damage onto your legs to prolong your survival (and this, the enemy having to spend more time on you to purchase more time for your team to survive the crossing themselves)? Radar Deprivation?

I will remark that LRMs are most effective the close to minimum range they are, and become less reliable the farther out they are. For best blend between reliability and range, about 600m is where their reliability starts to become more questionable. I've also seen too many people shoot LRMs at targets outside 1000m range... which is a "makes a lot of noise but does nothing else".

i read, thanks, nice suggestions.

I however feel that this game has too much "hiding from LRM's" in certain situations. and that Is a problem, making a bold push to a point was instant;y punished by LRM rain. and, personally, I think that kills a lot of fun

[Tesunie]

Pixel Hunter, on 16 March 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

i read, thanks, nice suggestions.

I however feel that this game has too much "hiding from LRM's" in certain situations. and that Is a problem, making a bold push to a point was instant;y punished by LRM rain. and, personally, I think that kills a lot of fun

The stuff posted there was not just for LRMs. You typically choose those crossing paths to reduce damage from any weapon, including LRMs and especially sniper weapons that might out range your own. Cover works against any attack, just LRMs normally require different cover requirements (depending upon the situation).

And just so the tone is set right, I mean no disrespect nor am I trying to patronize you. Finding yourself in a bad position can hurt. With LRMs involved, it can hurt more and sometimes can even make what you think is a good position into a "well, that was a very bad spot to stand". Sometimes, you don't even realize you are in a bad position until it's too late.

[death390]

hi there i am a fairly new player ~400 matches(?) but i have some anecdotal examples. i started playing with friends and decided i wanted to start with LRMs since i enjoy the damage support playstyle. i was a frost mage in WoW, control wizard in dnd, and generally play heal/control/ dmg characters in other RPG games. for FPS i enjoyed playing the sniper type character Battlefield (2142 was awsome), CoD (maps built to say FU to snipers), World of tanks (SPG so hard but rewarding).

when it comes to MWO i have tried a few different types of styles; backstabber (no thanks), hit and run (ok), flanker (good), fire support (enjoyable!), skirmisher (good). i own a 4 mechs (in order of bought): Mad dog, shadow cat, raven 4x, gargoyle. i wanted one from each weight class, but i know from the trial mechs i don't like being slow.

my current LRM build is Mad dog (mixed omni) 3x LRM 20 (1 left 2 right torso), tag (right arm), 3x HML (left arm) for backup weapon. (shadowcat is a large pulse poker, raven was kinda meh, gargoyle lazer vomit poke/skirmisher LPLx2 HMLx4)

when i started out i bought the mad dog on recommendation of my friends i started using H omni loadout and only LRM 40 (no tag/art), the first thing i noticed was that locks took a "long time" and often locks would disappear right before or after i was able to launch a salvo. i had kinda bad map awareness and would fairly often get left behind as the rest of the team went nascar, pushed ahead, ect. this didn't bother me as a sniper mentality even when i was swarmed by light because if you get caught out as a "sniper" its your fault.

looking at my damage score i was often hovering 300-500 dmg average and learning maps, HPG and Solaris were my "bad maps" because i couldn't contribute much and i noticed more and more how the arc fired getting more and more dmg as i learned to bend shots and figure out if i had a clear line of sight (kinda like the SPG in WoT but homing). started noticing the countermeasures more, Stealth, ECM, AMS; stealth didn't bother me i had teammates who could often deal with them, ECM sucked since it took so much longer to get a lock, but AMS . . . AMS was my honest bane i was noticing how when 1 or even 2 mechs had AMS i could do nearly NO damage or suppression even with LRM 40.

so i started looking into the mechanics of LRMs and specifically AMS. i was honestly supprised to find the disparity between clan and IS LRMs. the stream-fire of clan let AMS take down DOUBLE the number of missiles than IS LRMs. so that means that to AMS i am effectivly running 2/3-1/2 the number of tubes (not actually but how i felt). well lets try something stupid, i tried to see how many tubes i could fit (90 max) then scaled it back considering i KNEW it was stupid idea. 80 was workable but 60 was where i finally felt like i reached a balance, enough to get through most 1-2 AMS mechs but not too stupid for heat/ weight. i had 4 HML for point defence but swapped one out for a tag during this testing phase and i much prefer having a tag than not (though artemis sucks for its costs to me).

within the last month i have increased my average Dmg K/KMDD/D. i am now averaging 7-800 dmg a match, 1-3 kills, 3-6 KMDD, and survive about 25% of my matches. i am more on the front lines than i used to be trying to get that sweet tag lock but usually flanking (who would expect to see me out there) then setting up for my team to come TO me. after learning the maps i only HATE 1 and heavily dislike 1 (solaris sucks, polar is straight up bad!). my fav maps are canyon, frozen, and mining.

including ALL of my early games MDD is @: .89 W/L (just over 200 matches), .72 K/D (~45 more deaths than kills and doesn't count KMDD at all though), 79.5k lifetime damage.
(100 matches is shadowcat, 4 in gargoyle so far, and 26 in raven)

LRMs suck when you are out in the open and hey sometimes you HAVE to get spotted to get a better position, hell i almost was melted on polar when i peaked the domination ridge and got his by multiple LRM boats (pretty sure they were boats with how many) i had red armor on torso, and was orange on CT and LT with heavy armor damage to the rest of my front.

dealing with LRMs is comically easy with a mech faster than ~70kph, you out run the damn things and break lock; seriously! i always run radar dep because i like the playstyle. AMS 1-2 chews through clan LRMs like butter and the IS ones are so spread its a gamble which missiles get targeted (luck if it targets the edge you are running towards (or center if your tanking the hit). ECM is honestly bonkers without tag/narc making it basically mandatory to have one or the other (preferences apply), and stealth well tag and point defense takes care of that. i run pretty cool with 14 DHS as long as i only fire the lasers every so often.

this all being said i think this LRM are OP pls nerf stems from the same fact i have had to deal with in other games, people don't like to deal with things they find unfair/ slow them from doing what they want/ ect. stealth in games where you are litteraly invisible? omg i can't fight them, use AoE! omfg sniping is such a p*ssy way to play the game. well it is there for a reason, if you stand out in the open just shooting then expect to get shot or suppressed (BF2142 was magnificent game! even had mechs), omfg i just got to the fight the artilery is overpowered! i am a SPG i watched you litteraly crawl across the map through open terain and waited for 5 SECONDS holding ABSOLUTLY STILL so that i could have a 1/4 chance of hitting you (WoT painful arty expericnce) with another 60% chance it bounced off your armor.

with how the tabletop played LRMs are actually underpowered (especially due to ghost heat) as are PPCs and Gauss (crit through armor anyone? hell imagine the 2.5 splash dmg from CERPPC hitting components . the core game is high casualty gameplay, hell you are more likely to hit cockpit in TT than the horrid hitboxes in this game, no melee, no Death From Above. the game is super precise too, a more TT style game would have cones of fire and hope to god you got lucky where you hit within it.