10 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

I just came back to the game and was at about 60-70% heat and lost a ST to an enemy and took heat damage and was shut down for many many seconds then died before I turned back on.


This is not a fun mechanic.

Edited by Xetelian, 13 March 2019 - 04:06 PM.

[Livaria]

I'm unsure, to be honest. There clearly has to be a drawback from having Clan XL or Light Fusion engine. So what will that be?

[KursedVixen]

slower max speed. I don't think all of the penalties are fair since most Clan XL's are fixed in omnimechs...

Edited by KursedVixen, 14 March 2019 - 11:19 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

KursedVixen, on 14 March 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

slower max speed. I don't think all of the penalties are fair since most Clan XL's are fixed in omnimechs...

So true. But isn't it always like this? Some mechs need a nerf, nerf comes, hardly affects the mechs in question but utterly destroys mechs which have been nowhere near in need of a nerf.

[Livaria]

That just seems like you're over catastrophizing the situation to me. And heavily opinionated.

Edited by Livaria, 14 March 2019 - 03:59 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Livaria, on 14 March 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

That just seems like you're over catastrophizing the situation to me. And heavily opinionated.

He's right about it, tho.
With half of the roster of clan mechs, you don't have the choice of going STD engine and most clan mechs are paper dragons.
Losing a side with those mechs means means gimped to the point of being ineffective or flat out dead.

5/8 clan lights have a fixed xl engine.
7,5/10 clan mediums have a fixed xl engine.
9/11 clan heavies have a fixed xl engine.
5/11 clan assaults have a fixed xl engine.

Mechs which can't fit many heatsinks are more effected then heatsink boats, usually the lower tonnage bracket.
Hello-kill-me sidetorso mechs, especially the assault class warhawk and direwolf are usually dead by losing a side now.
Idk, did the direwolf was in need of a nerf? i think not but mechs like it took a heavy blow by the xl nerf. Min/maxed boats like the hunchy IIC-B laserboat can stomach the nerf much more easily although the nerf was meant especially for those mechs and builds.

imo, nerf hit the wrong mechs too hard.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 15 March 2019 - 03:48 AM.

[Livaria]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 14 March 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

But isn't it always like this? Some mechs need a nerf, nerf comes, hardly affects the mechs in question but utterly destroys mechs which have been nowhere near in need of a nerf.

I'm referring to you, when you said this. I think it's unfair to imply that mechs are not ever getting well deserved nerfs, on the wholesale value like you describe it.

However, I'm still open to the idea of reducing said nerfs. So at least we can focus on that. Give me a moment to review the side-torso penalties, and I'll come up with some ideas. That's better than acting like such a victim.

EDIT:

So the information I came across is a "40% reduction to Engine Heat Sink Efficiency, and a 20% reduction in Top Speed." This penalty appears to be the same for Innersphere LFE and Clan XL. You can try to correct this information if it's wrong or outdated.

I'm guessing that your complaint is about losing external heatsinks. In your scenario; the mechs with the most external heatsinks. would suffer a little bit more. Since they don't just 40% heatsink. But lose 100% of the heatsinks lost in a side-torso.

If that's the case, then that's a somewhat understandable complaint. But there are a handful of situations that weaken the argument, even if you're not wrong. When all these situations are combined into one statistic; Your heatsink problem is less likely to occour. (But it still makes it a problem worth solving.)

- Heatsinks placed in the legs,center torso, and the remaining side-torso, still have 60% functional heatsinks.
(Though this option is limited for certain omnimechs.)

- When heatsinks are lost, weaponry can be lost too, potentially reducing the amount of heat output of said 'mech. (Only a few mechs are incapable of doing this.)

- Some 'mech builds have limited to no energy hardpoints.
(Mist Lynx Prime for example)

- In an ongoing battle, sometimes, a player have enough time to take cover and wait patiently for the heat to recover, it's less damage, for sure. But that doesn't completely stop a 'mech from delivering damage.

- Coolant makes for a good temporary back-up plan, in the event that a side-torso is destroyed.

With all of this being said. Not every 'mech can have all of these options. So for the mechs that are forced to pile in their heatsinks and weapons separately in one side-torso, or otherwise a lot of energy weapons. I recommend better quirks for those types of mechs.

But I take some more time to think about the side torso penalty.

Edited by Livaria, 15 March 2019 - 11:36 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Livaria, on 15 March 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

acting like such a victim.

really now?

Livaria, on 15 March 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

I'm still open to the idea of reducing said nerfs.

Easy, remove heat capacity deduction as it unreasonable punishes lighter mechs with 10 or close to 10 heatsinks.
Deduct heatdispension equal of 2 internal heatsinks (because that is what was destroyed).

Currently we have
-40% heatdispension
-40% heat capacity
-20% speed
-20% agility

Having 70-80% heat and losing a side means insta death with override, probably death by heat or by enemies cuz you just shut down infront of them.
Did i already stressed that more then half of the clan mechs can NOT pick anything else then clan (x)xl engines?

Livaria, on 15 March 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

I'm guessing that your complaint is about losing external heatsinks. In your scenario; the mechs with the most external heatsinks. would suffer a little bit more. Since they don't just 40% heatsink. But lose 100% of the heatsinks lost in a side-torso.

If that's the case, then that's a somewhat understandable complaint. But there are a handful of situations that weaken the argument, even if you're not wrong. When all these situations are combined into one statistic; Your heatsink problem is less likely to occour. (But it still makes it a problem worth solving.)

No, i complain about mechs having a locked xl engine which blow up @ 70% heat when their sidetorso gets destroyed.

Not external heatsinks which are lost when destroyed but overall heatcapacity of -40% on mechs which only have 7 internal and 3 external heatsinks. Losing a side is a death penalty for those mechs.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 15 March 2019 - 12:15 PM.

[Livaria]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 15 March 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

really now?



Easy, remove heat capacity deduction as it unreasonable punishes lighter mechs with 10 or close to 10 heatsinks.
Deduct heatdispension equal of 2 internal heatsinks (because that is what was destroyed).

Currently we have
-40% heatdispension
-40% heat capacity
-20% speed
-20% agility

Having 70-80% heat and losing a side means insta death with override, probably death by heat or by enemies cuz you just shut down infront of them.
Did i already stressed that more then half of the clan mechs can NOT pick anything else then clan (x)xl engines?

Yes, you did, and it does seem like a good enough plan. But one thing, Is it *just* heat dissipation or are we including heat capacity as well? I imagine both, but I have to be sure.

And you will have to excuse my rudeness. But I've had enough people act extremely sour. In return, I am the same way, but only because people let their disgust get out of control. I don't like criticism that is disproportionately negative that excludes all the other important things. Whether it be positive or informative.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Livaria, on 15 March 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

But one thing, Is it *just* heat dissipation or are we including heat capacity as well? I imagine both, but I have to be sure.

You lose 2 internal heatsinks (those of the XL part) that is 0.22 dispension and 0,5 capacity each. you also lose x external heatsinks (same values) which got destroyed. Then you get a -40% dispension and -40% capacity on whatever you have left.
This basically means you are close to useless in a fight or, if you happen to have moderate to high heat, you will simply blow up / shutdown infront of the enemy.

Now, for inner sphere light engines, noone is forcing you to use those, can min/max with XL or go STD engine, it's your choice.
For clan omnis on the other hand, you are literally stuck with the XL.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 15 March 2019 - 12:34 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 15 March 2019 - 03:47 AM, said:

He's right about it, tho.
With half of the roster of clan mechs, you don't have the choice of going STD engine and most clan mechs are paper dragons.
Losing a side with those mechs means means gimped to the point of being ineffective or flat out dead.

5/8 clan lights have a fixed xl engine.
7,5/10 clan mediums have a fixed xl engine.
9/11 clan heavies have a fixed xl engine.
5/11 clan assaults have a fixed xl engine.

Mechs which can't fit many heatsinks are more effected then heatsink boats, usually the lower tonnage bracket.
Hello-kill-me sidetorso mechs, especially the assault class warhawk and direwolf are usually dead by losing a side now.
Idk, did the direwolf was in need of a nerf? i think not but mechs like it took a heavy blow by the xl nerf. Min/maxed boats like the hunchy IIC-B laserboat can stomach the nerf much more easily although the nerf was meant especially for those mechs and builds.

imo, nerf hit the wrong mechs too hard.

the only thing that got nerfed on the dire wolf were thos crazy quad guass builds which ended up effecting all guass weapons.... and the guass erppc combo nerf i think... which again effected other mechs.... so yeah i can see where your going with that... and the removal of easily accessible speed tweak via the new skill tree really effected it along with other slow assaults. that's the other problem with the clan mechs due to their fixed XL nature most of them also have a fixed speed which means you can 100% garuntee those mechs will be going at that speed.

I think I personally own all clan lights aside from the Incubus...so i know how bad losing a side torso is. Another thing to add to my "Balance IS because of horrible disparities , list"

Note that if such a reduction in penalties is applied to Clan XL's i'm not against Light engines getting similar if not slightly toned down versions of the reduction (remember that Light engines though, not XL's are actually a proposal by the Wolf's dragoon's because their lack of ability to make Clan Xl's)

Edited by KursedVixen, 16 March 2019 - 10:45 PM.