59 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

FRAGTAST1C, on 16 March 2019 - 06:15 PM, said:

The reason why I was using LBX 10 and an UAC 10 was 'cause I'm using the Nightstar 9S with dual UAC20 and while that burst damage is incredible, the jamming of UAC's, in general, comes down to luck. So, having one that doesn't jam but can also do critical damage would be good, is what I'm saying.

This is highly specious reasoning. The pilot at all times has control over whether to risk UAC jam. Weapons can be fired together or in separate weapon groups. A UAC fired in single mode will not risk jam if a combined group is doubled tapped as long as the single fire group is fired first and remains depressed during double tap.

It is completely within your power to risk zero, half or full jam for both weapons. There is no dilemma.

Edited by Spheroid, 16 March 2019 - 11:38 PM.

[ingramli]

While I am not supporter of min-maxing strategy, a jack of all trade build is plain bad for MWO, period. Most decent players will build the loadout around a role they want, and try to stay at a spot where their role suit for. Going bracket build means you are inferior against those build, unless they are out of position. I do bring side arms for slow mech (heavies or assaults), but not specialise on a role to a certain extent means you are sort of a burden to your team as you are literally good at nothing.

[Gas Guzzler]

Battlemaster56, on 16 March 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

I think I'll stick with my dual uac10 and 2 erppc build and go poptarting with it over that build.

The only proper build!

[Potatomasher69]

When playing an assault, you are almost always out of position because of your speed anyways. Might as well have some extended range weapons in case you get caught at range, might as well bring a few LRMs since there is a chance you will only be able to contribute indirectly until you catch up to the front, might as well have a big UAC20 in case you get to the front.

Let's face it, most assault mechs that get to the brawl are flanked and all their armor is immediately sand papered off unless you happen to get the enemy right in front of you. Considering ghost heat makes all the fun insta gib builds obsolete, you might as well take the loadout of three different medium mechs.

[ingramli]

Potatomasher69, on 17 March 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

When playing an assault, you are almost always out of position because of your speed anyways. Might as well have some extended range weapons in case you get caught at range, might as well bring a few LRMs since there is a chance you will only be able to contribute indirectly until you catch up to the front, might as well have a big UAC20 in case you get to the front.

Let's face it, most assault mechs that get to the brawl are flanked and all their armor is immediately sand papered off unless you happen to get the enemy right in front of you. Considering ghost heat makes all the fun insta gib builds obsolete, you might as well take the loadout of three different medium mechs.

The elite players here will say they read what happening in the battlefield and predict what is going to happen, and move to the next "right" position in advance, and make use of cover, and etc, unfortunately I am not one of them......

[Potatomasher69]

ingramli, on 17 March 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:

The elite players here will say they read what happening in the battlefield and predict what is going to happen, and move to the next "right" position in advance, and make use of cover, and etc, unfortunately I am not one of them......

lol me either

[FRAGTAST1C]

Spheroid, on 16 March 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

It is completely within your power to risk zero, half or full jam for both weapons. There is no dilemma.

The dual UAC20 that I have on the Nightstar is on two separate groups and I alternate the clicks most of the time but if quick 40 damage is required, I press both the triggers simultaneously. If jams when I'm careful and it jams when I'm not. Sometimes, even if I'm careless, UACs don't jam and I burst through the enemy line.

Potatomasher69, on 17 March 2019 - 02:08 AM, said:

lol me either

Same. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to try something that's reasonably good at all ranges. The UACs and LRMs are good at that I think. Besides, I could swap out the LRMs for ATMs. I just don't want to wait for the enemy to come close or just sit back and launch missiles.

[LordNothing]

both clan and is highlanders were excelent lrm boats back in the day. they probibly still are. my favorite dirty trick was to stick an ac20 some lrm20s on one of them and pretend to be a lerm noob. and when somone came to punish say hello to mr boom boom. my highlanders all got converted to mrm/atm boats with newtech, but with the lrm changes i might dust them off again.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 March 2019 - 12:20 PM.

[Zephrym]

A pair of uac10s and ATMs can also be quite fun with some back up pew pew.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prototelis, on 16 March 2019 - 10:21 PM, said:

That is a heavy mech build that the Orion does better and faster. So no, its not good.

Yeah your right, hitting an easy 500 damage per match is horrible performance out of this mech. It sucks horribly.

You know what else does this build better? A Madcat Mk II, but what is the point since I am talking about a Highlander IIC? The build I use, be it a heavy build or whatever, works and offers good performance for this variant of the Highlander IIC and while there may be a better build somewhere, I haven't found it. I my opinion, it really doesn't matter what other mechs can or can't do, it only matters what the Highlander IIC can or can't do well when discussing the Highlander IIC anyway.

Anyway, I have shared my build, people can use it or dismiss it how they like.

[Prototelis]

Angel of Annihilation, on 17 March 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

Yeah your right, hitting an easy 500 damage per match is horrible performance out of this mech. It sucks horribly.

1. I seriously doubt you do an "easy 500 damage" in this mech.
2. Its a terrible build for the tonnage and slot space available.
3. When a lighter mech does the same thing that's pretty much the hallmark of terrible assault building.
4. The Orion has P.much the same amount of health, is smaller, has better hitboxes.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prototelis, on 17 March 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

1. I seriously doubt you do an "easy 500 damage" in this mech.
2. Its a terrible build for the tonnage and slot space available.
3. When a lighter mech does the same thing that's pretty much the hallmark of terrible assault building.
4. The Orion has P.much the same amount of health, is smaller, has better hitboxes.

Look. One of my favorite mechs in the game is my PHX-2. It runs 6 MLs, that is it. Now I could easily run a 6 ML build on a Jenner or a Firestarter so you absolutely could say that 6 medium lasers on the PHX-2 is a light mech build, but I wouldn't trade my PHX-2 for either of those mechs in a million years. The point I am making is that it doesn't matter what the build is, if it works for the build.

Also lets be honest here, the Highlander IIC chassis is quite limiting. What are you going to do different? The Dual UAC/10s are pretty much the best bang for the buck for the ballistic mounts which with ammo is going to cost you a cool 25-26 tons of your available weight depending how much ammo you want for them. Then you only have 3 energy and 2 missile and 24 tons to work with since you probably will want to run the max engine to eck out 58 kph. For the energy, 3 of anything heavy it out due to the ghost heat so your stuck with at most 3 MPLs in the side torso or I guess you could go big and maybe drop a couple of HLLs, ERLLs or LPLs but by the time you add enough DHS to the chassis to cool the UACs and Lasers, you don't have much left over for any sort of missile armament so lets go back to the trio of MPLs. You could maybe drop in a couple of ATM9s at this point but heat is going to get you so lets drop back to a trio of ER MLs to save some tonnage for DHS and ammo for the ATMs. Or you could choose some LRM15s or LRM20s or a couple Streak 6s or a couple of SRM6s with artemis, depending how heat efficient you want your mech.....and we are right back to my build.

My point is you might be able to argue that the mech is bad, but I am not sure you can argue that the build is technically bad because any choice you make is going to come with some serious trade offs. I checked my stats with this mech and I did exaggerate my damage numbers with it. I am averaging 407.6 damage per match and I don't have a 91 point build on it yet. Hitting 500 damage isn't super hard though and 400 damage, without a full skill build is solid because it is only going to get better. So...heavy build, assault build or whatever, it works and that is all that matters.

[Prototelis]

Do you write the super huge extra long word blocks because you're afraid people won't understand you?

I played a PHX with 6 medium lasers this season in comp, btw. Thats a terrible build for QP, not enough burst damage. Literally all it did was scrape people to prevent caps and clean up mechs our bigs already disabled.


I don't see what kind of point that proves when we're comparing, when the difference between a 5-10 ton chassis differential and a 15 ton differential at the top end on what is WELL KNOWN to be a bad assault with a low engine cap.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Wait... the Orion has better hit-boxes than the Highlander? I'm merely asking 'cause I'd like to pick a Clan mech as the reward and I thought Highlander IIC would be better. That Orion IIC looks more like a CQB mech with over-sized ST's.

[Prototelis]

The Highlander IIC is a lot bigger, has easier to isolate hitboxes, and doesn't have durability or agility to make up for any of its shortcomings. It's easily one of the worst mechs in the game right now.

While the Orion doesn't have much better hitboxes it is; smaller, has good armor quirks, runs pretty much the same builds a highlander can, and does it faster.

LB20 +4srm6A is a really common and strong build for brawling. Thats basically a 75 ton OG Atlas.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Prototelis, on 17 March 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

LB20 +4srm6A is a really common and strong build for brawling. Thats basically a 75 ton OG Atlas.

Yeah, but I already have brawlers. What I need is a mech that can shoot beyond 500m.

[FupDup]

FRAGTAST1C, on 17 March 2019 - 07:29 PM, said:

Yeah, but I already have brawlers. What I need is a mech that can shoot beyond 500m.

As I said on the first page, the Onion IIC has the hardpoints to use a "bracket build" if that is your fancy. For the champ variant you can easily put a big AC of your choice plus two medium lasers of choice plus whatever amount of missiles you feel like with a reasonable CXL300 engine.

[Koniving]

FRAGTAST1C, on 16 March 2019 - 09:52 AM, said:

I was looking at the reward mechs that are on offer and that Highland IIC is very versatile, I feel. It's got decent mobility and a nice selection of hardpoints. I could go with something like C-UAC10 + C-LBX10 + Dual C-LRM 20 + 2 ERSML + XL 325, lots of ammo and heat sinks to sustain a fight. I could pump out damage before the fight actually starts and when it's time to brawl, the dakka comes out, not that I couldn't use them against easy targets early on either. The torso speed is quite decent as well. It might have bad hit-boxes, I don't know.

But out of all the listed mechs there and with what I own (Mauler and Hellbringer), the Highlander does offer quick burst damage as well as long-range firepower and lots of armour. I could swap out the LRMs and go with ATMs instead and do a bit of re-arranging of ammo and backup weapons to go with more heat sinks maybe.

Okay, I'm gonna be fair and not judge this thing because I know of the power that IS AC/10 and LBX-10 combos can have.

I can get what the LRMs are for, that's pretty obvious. Not sure if I'd bother with 2 of them, but okay...

No, what has me baffled is the final choice: What are the ER SLs for? If I'm not mistaken these are still torso mounted for the Clan Highlanders right?

....then why?
If its for use against lights, why not pulse? Far more effective.
If just a close range punch...why not mediums or heavy lasers? Better punch...

Sorry but I'm just baffled at the laser choice.

(Not sure if I'd approve of Clan AC/LBX combinations, the sput-sput-sput doesn't mesh as well as an IS version's simultaineous fire of the two without any trickling 'sputs' following up but that's how the Frag do..)

[FRAGTAST1C]

Koniving, on 17 March 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

I can get what the LRMs are for, that's pretty obvious. Not sure if I'd bother with 2 of them, but okay...

No, what has me baffled is the final choice: What are the ER SLs for? If I'm not mistaken these are still torso mounted for the Clan Highlanders right?

There are 2 missile hardpoints, so I thought of going with ATMs first but the heat and weight were a bit too much. The LRMs were ok and a decent fit. So, I put two of them.

The ERSML are just to fill up the tonnage and keep some backup weapons for that extra poke. I hadn't given it much thought apart for filling up the tonnage while keeping the heat management in check. Feel free to alter the build. I am looking for ways to making a mech operable in all ranges. The thing with the Orion though is that I could fit two LRMs and 2 SRMs with an LBX20 as well as some lasers. But not sure how effective that'd be.

[Koniving]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 March 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

There are 2 missile hardpoints, so I thought of going with ATMs first but the heat and weight were a bit too much. The LRMs were ok and a decent fit. So, I put two of them.

The ERSML are just to fill up the tonnage and keep some backup weapons for that extra poke. I hadn't given it much thought apart for filling up the tonnage while keeping the heat management in check. Feel free to alter the build. I am looking for ways to making a mech operable in all ranges. The thing with the Orion though is that I could fit two LRMs and 2 SRMs with an LBX20 as well as some lasers. But not sure how effective that'd be.

For the missile launchers, the second one could be used to bolster the close range effectiveness, given how ineffective the lasers actually are.
The saved weight could be funnelled into MPL, SPL or heavy lasers at worse with additional heatsinks.

The weight of two LRM-20s isn't bad for the Clans, but having them creates a lot of desire to not be up close to the action in order to use them. An ongoing fear some LRM-haters tend to have is if you have LRMs, you won't close in.

Orions are pretty good. Can't speak for the Clan version though as I don't have one.

Is there a special reason you're going with LBX?