59 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Koniving, on 18 March 2019 - 12:56 AM, said:

Is there a special reason you're going with LBX?

I have the Nightstar 9S with dual UAC20 (I use it 'cause of the HSL +1 quirk it has) and though I don't double tap often, I find that the weapon jams a lot. I've come to accept that the mech will always behave that way. So, I don't want another UAC20 jamming mech, especially on the clan side, 'cause as far as I can tell, the Clan UAC expend more slugs per pull of the trigger compared to the IS UAC. Am I right? Anyway, I don't necessarily want another UAC 20, but it if has to be, then it has to be I guess.

[Koniving]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 March 2019 - 01:52 AM, said:

I have the Nightstar 9S with dual UAC20 (I use it 'cause of the HSL +1 quirk it has) and though I don't double tap often, I find that the weapon jams a lot. I've come to accept that the mech will always behave that way. So, I don't want another UAC20 jamming mech, especially on the clan side, 'cause as far as I can tell, the Clan UAC expend more slugs per pull of the trigger compared to the IS UAC. Am I right? Anyway, I don't necessarily want another UAC 20, but it if has to be, then it has to be I guess.

Fair enough.

Clan UACs and ACs do fire more projectiles than IS versions. But...there's Clan ACs?

Significantly less heat per volley. Similar to (matching most) LBX.

Don't get me wrong, if you put the skill trees in to reduce the spread and use them within certain ranges, they're fantastic. Its like a single bullet.



But beyond those ranges, there's spread... and unlike IS LBX, there's no double crit damage (which is what makes IS LBX so deadly). There also isn't the 50% range bonus (where instead of 2 times stated range = 0 damage, its 3 times stated range to get 0 damage).

[PhoenixFire55]

All ranges you say? ...

I say ...

One Range to kill them all
One Range to snipe them
One Range to wreck them al
And into end score grind them.

There can be only one!

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 18 March 2019 - 03:11 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

So, how would you build that Orion IIC to cover ranges beyond 500m?

[Battlemaster56]

Artemis Version: https://mech.nav-alp...ad59a_ON1-IIC-C

Non Artemis Version: https://mech.nav-alp...5fd1b_ON1-IIC-C

Just try copying that HGN IIC-C Build and putting on the onion.

[KhanBhacKeD]

Koniving, on 18 March 2019 - 02:56 AM, said:

Fair enough.

Clan UACs and ACs do fire more projectiles than IS versions. But...there's Clan ACs?

Significantly less heat per volley. Similar to (matching most) LBX.

Don't get me wrong, if you put the skill trees in to reduce the spread and use them within certain ranges, they're fantastic. Its like a single bullet.


But beyond those ranges, there's spread... and unlike IS LBX, there's no double crit damage (which is what makes IS LBX so deadly). There also isn't the 50% range bonus (where instead of 2 times stated range = 0 damage, its 3 times stated range to get 0 damage).

From where did you hear no double crit damage on Clan LBX? C-lbx and is one share the same mechanic.
For the range argument I thought it was only c-lb20 which have a difference with is counterpart but I have to double-check it before saying something wrong.
And by the way it's not really really a double crit damage.

Remember each time you hit structure you have a crit roll up to 3 times.
Crit does 1 times damage to internal systems but only a % of that dammage was done as bonus on the srtucture. (it means an AC20 crit does 20 + X%*20 damage to structure.) so maximum damage is : 20 + 3*X%*20 damage for an ac 20.
The LBX each pellets can deal 2 times damage to internal systems but the same as normal weapon % are transfered to structural damage. And you have to remember each pellet rolls their crit change independently of others. So the formula is a bit more longer. Let's state you use a lb20X and each of your pellet hit the same opened component.

So you does 20 + N*X%*2 damage and to a maximum of 20 + 3*20*X%*2 damages. (N is the numbers of pellet which get a crit roll)

Internal systems = weapons, dhs, equipment etc...

Edited by KhanBhacKeD, 18 March 2019 - 08:04 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Battlemaster56, on 18 March 2019 - 07:14 AM, said:

Artemis Version: https://mech.nav-alp...ad59a_ON1-IIC-C

Non Artemis Version: https://mech.nav-alp...5fd1b_ON1-IIC-C

Just try copying that HGN IIC-C Build and putting on the onion.

Cool, but I think that the Orion IIC on offer is the Champion version which has only 1 ballistic hardpoint but 4 missile options. So, LBX 20, 2 SRM 6 and 2 LRM 15 then? Or stick to 1 UAC10 and LRMs or something?

[Grus]

I fo rd get the highlander2c I got but... 4srm6, uac20, 2lpl. Opens assaults quick.

[Battlemaster56]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 March 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Cool, but I think that the Orion IIC on offer is the Champion version which has only 1 ballistic hardpoint but 4 missile options. So, LBX 20, 2 SRM 6 and 2 LRM 15 then? Or stick to 1 UAC10 and LRMs or something?

You can do that the lbx and srms just for close range and lurms for getting folks atfar, but not gotta protect that LT the most since that's most of your fire power will be at, and what everyone aiming at. I just say experiment and find something you like.

[Prototelis]

You could be zesty and throw a gauss rifle on there for the mid range pinpoint.

[Koniving]

KhanBhacKeD, on 18 March 2019 - 07:40 AM, said:

From where did you hear no double crit damage on Clan LBX? C-lbx and is one share the same mechanic.
For the range argument I thought it was only c-lb20 which have a difference with is counterpart but I have to double-check it before saying something wrong.
And by the way it's not really really a double crit damage.

https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment
Highlight the crosshair next to LBX for IS and Clan.
IS LBX does 2 damage per crit per pellet.
Clan LBX does 1 damage per crit per pellet.

Thus IS gets double, Clan does not.

Quote

Remember each time you hit structure you have a crit roll up to 3 times.
Crit does 1 times damage to internal systems but only a % of that dammage was done as bonus on the srtucture. (it means an AC20 crit does 20 + X%*20 damage to structure.) so maximum damage is : 20 + 3*X%*20 damage for an ac 20.
The LBX each pellets can deal 2 times damage to internal systems but the same as normal weapon % are transfered to structural damage. And you have to remember each pellet rolls their crit change independently of others. So the formula is a bit more longer. Let's state you use a lb20X and each of your pellet hit the same opened component.

So you does 20 + N*X%*2 damage and to a maximum of 20 + 3*20*X%*2 damages. (N is the numbers of pellet which get a crit roll)

Internal systems = weapons, dhs, equipment etc...

The percentage damage done to internal structure is 15% of the damage to crits.

So an AC/20 (IS) does 20 damage to armor.
To structure, assuming a single crit, does 23 damage to structure.
An IS LBX 20, assuming every pellet does a single crit, would do 26 damage to structure.
A Clan LBX 20, assuming the same as above, would do 23 damage to structure.

Its been this way since late 2017 I think, early 2018? Somewhere in there. It was also that way back in 2014 but then it was removed.

[Koniving]

As for range:
IS LBX 20: 360 stated range. Max range: 1,080 (where it will do 0 damage)
360 + 360 = 720... + 360 = 1080.

Clan LBX 20: 360 stated range. Max range: 720 (where it will do 0 damage)
360 + 360 = 720

An interesting thing to note: Crits, and subsequently crit damage and the bonus to structure damage, are unaffected by range.
(Still if you're sniping with a shotgun, someone should bap you over the head.)

For most weapons the standard is two times the stated range is your 0 damage range.
But clearly this isn't the case for IS LBX.

[LordBraxton]

My cbill printer is the cbill bonus Orion with

2ERML
UAC10
3ALRM15

I havent tried it recently but a year ago it was the only 'mixed' build i have a great record with. Direct fire LRMs and lay on the UAC10 on the wounded areas

[KhanBhacKeD]

@koniving re-read well about crit on smurfy. C-lbx still doing same crit damage as is. (that's why is ask you from where you get that, Beacause I could have done a mistake but it seems not actually.)

I read 15% in most post but some really old told about 20 that's why i have not engaged myself into saying any of that. (I have not the entire history of that.)

And telling crit does double can be confusing cause some people didn't know about the internal damage mechanic (I just want to precise out the thing).

And yeah I already knew for the lb20 range difference I just tell I want to double check for others, so same rules applies.

So in fact I just really wanted to put some precisions on your already good answer

Edited by KhanBhacKeD, 18 March 2019 - 04:36 PM.

[InspectorG]

ingramli, on 17 March 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:

The elite players here will say they read what happening in the battlefield and predict what is going to happen, and move to the next "right" position in advance, and make use of cover, and etc, unfortunately I am not one of them......

You dont have to be elite, you have to use the MinMap.

Which...most player dont. Ive asked around in Solo, they simply dont use it.

[InspectorG]

Potatomasher69, on 17 March 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

Considering ghost heat makes all the fun insta gib builds obsolete, you might as well take the loadout of three different medium mechs.

Quad LB10 alone rips up robots with minimal heat.

Mass AC2 +/- RAC2 heats up quickly, but leaves holes in robots if you can hold a bead.

Quad Light Gauss Faffy is heat neutral.

Dual Heavy Gauss is heat neutral.

[Potatomasher69]

InspectorG, on 18 March 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Quad LB10 alone rips up robots with minimal heat.

Mass AC2 +/- RAC2 heats up quickly, but leaves holes in robots if you can hold a bead.

Quad Light Gauss Faffy is heat neutral.

Dual Heavy Gauss is heat neutral.

I clearly meant something like 4xUAC20's, 8+ ERPPCs or ERLLs, 4 Gauss Rifles or like 2 Gauss Rifles and 6 ERPPCs, 8xLPLs. Stuff like that, stuff that Ghost Heat steps on because reasons. Yeah sure a 40-50 point pinpoint (read again, pinpoint) alpha is nice, when we start talking 80+ pinpoint PGI has an issue with that, and it's something that really only inhibits assaults.

[FRAGTAST1C]

So, apart for a few, people don't actually run some mixed builds that are effective at any range, I see.

[FupDup]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 March 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

So, apart for a few, people don't actually run some mixed builds that are effective at any range, I see.

Well, people do often run builds effective at any range, but those don't usually manifest as "kitchen sink" bracket builds.

An example of a popular build is the 2 UAC/10 + 2 UAC/5 Mad Cat Mk. II. It's good at every range, but not really a mixed build in the way you're thinking (technically two different weapons but in reality it functions like one weapon). Laser vomit and lasers + Gauss are additional examples. I like my 2 RAC/2 + 4 ERML Catapult K2. Etc.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Ah, I get it. I might try the LRMs for a bit once I decide to either go for the Highlander IIC or the Orion IIC. If they don't work, then add SRMs or ATMs.