64 replies to this topic

[Xannatharr]

Kidding aside.. I've recently seen an Atlas-DDC with Stealth Armor, 3 x LRM 10 and 2 Large Pulse on Caustic.

Just shaking my head... isn't it hard to get locks when you have Stealth engaged? Aren't you limited to targeting mechs within 250 meters?

[Bishop Six]

Hazeclaw, on 18 March 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Bishop I love how you manage to funnel all your anger to "clanners". It makes me happy at this point in the game we still have serious loyalists that shake their fist in the air and go all "Gawd damn clammers!"

We all know ALL IS players are noble knights adhering to the strict code of "Bishops honor"

Thx i guess^^

But i think you got me wrong a bit. Recently the matches got more and more boring. Me and my mates see one of the reasons in clan loadouts which only prefer to avoid fighting. We think that many Clanners dont even try to get in a fight when they have attack mode like LRM on Sulfurous attack.

We just want to have more direct fights again because its hard to maintain motivation when, no matter which map/mode, you always see same clan loadouts which only include long range avoiding weapons and leads to the same match progress: We run after them, they run away. Thats a concern for me and my unitmates.

[W4R GOD]

Hazeclaw, on 17 March 2019 - 08:47 AM, said:

this type of behavior isn't unique to stealth builds

To give an example: a small group of players, including 1 guy who's a streamer and thinks he's the "TOP 1" player in FP because he plays more than anyone else and is always the very last guy in the back. They frequently troll the enemy team when they're losing with commandos/piranhas last wave and going off in the farthest parts of the map to hide, because for them it's fun to piss off other players. They've been reported hundreds if not thousands of times for this, and PGI has shown it's not going to do anything about it. Douchebags gonna douchebag, nothing you can do about it, some people just have a very miserable life and I guess it brings them joy to make others miserable, and if they can't do it in RL, at least they can do it in an online videogame

Play like this and you deserve your FATE.

[Bjorn Coston]

Bishop Six, on 18 March 2019 - 02:20 AM, said:

My problem is that some Clanners take example what he is doing.

The last weeks it got really worse.

I mean it was always like Clanners wait that IS attacks because Clanners want to use their long range advantage. But it became ridiculous lately and HE is one reason for this.

Clanners i fight ALL refuse to take action, refuse to attack (even in attack mode), they ALL bring Lurms and ATM and ERPPC and ERLL, no matter which map, even no matter if WE have kill lead.

Confused. You start out your post with "some Clanners" then go on to "Clanners i fight ALL refuse to take action", "they ALL bring Lurms and ATM...etc"

Just trying to figure out which one you're going with. Some or ALL.

And when you complain about Clanners bringing all Long Range stuff like it's a guaranteed tactic to win for Clanners then threaten to use Assassin rushes like you know its benefits are a guaranteed way to win for IS...isn't that kind of the pot calling the kettle black? Curious for science.

Pretty narrow-minded viewpoint you got there bud blaming just clanners for particular cheez tactics then threatening with your own side's cheez tactic when both factions do it all the time. Don't get me wrong dude, I'm with you. This game has a lot of mechs and tactics that "shouldn't" be used but are that cheapen gameplay and cheat people out of quality matches. Give me a straight up fight any day. But painting just one side as abusing quirks and gameplay mechanics and ignoring your own side's advantages isn't helping this community get better at all. Particular players and units are the problems, not an entire faction.

[Bishop Six]

Bjorn Bekker, on 18 March 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

Confused. You start out your post with "some Clanners" then go on to "Clanners i fight ALL refuse to take action", "they ALL bring Lurms and ATM...etc"

Just trying to figure out which one you're going with. Some or ALL.

And when you complain about Clanners bringing all Long Range stuff like it's a guaranteed tactic to win for Clanners then threaten to use Assassin rushes like you know its benefits are a guaranteed way to win for IS...isn't that kind of the pot calling the kettle black? Curious for science.

Pretty narrow-minded viewpoint you got there bud blaming just clanners for particular cheez tactics then threatening with your own side's cheez tactic when both factions do it all the time. Don't get me wrong dude, I'm with you. This game has a lot of mechs and tactics that "shouldn't" be used but are that cheapen gameplay and cheat people out of quality matches. Give me a straight up fight any day. But painting just one side as abusing quirks and gameplay mechanics and ignoring your own side's advantages isn't helping this community get better at all. Particular players and units are the problems, not an entire faction.

I dont ignore IS side. But i fight Clanners so i just can tell about what i see. There are groups like yesterday who fight active and with pressure, we lost both times against them, but still i had more fun than against falling back Clanners.

There are some, but in fact there are many, almost all, but no 100 %. Ok?

And i focus on Clanners because this "i stay far away tactic" counters many tactics from IS AND is boring. After weeks of dissapointments we said to ourselves that from now on we use ASN and stuff. It was not vice versa. First we got bored, then we took ASN.

And i dont know why dudes here are contradicting that. Everybody knows that Clanners are faster and have more focus on long range, especially pugs tend to that.

Maybe you guys are surprised from my reaction, but then try to see this from IS-point of view. We are slow, we cant run after them, we usually have less range (because we take weapons FITTING to the map/mode).

You will find Clanners on the wall (3-4 Shadowcats) with ERPPC on Manifold. You will not find Clanners on Polar, too far away. You will find Clanners outside of every gate on attack mode with Lurms, camping there and then running away. You will find Clanners on nearly every spawn, never leaving this zone, waiting for slow IS fatties.

I really hope you guys can try to see this from our point of view. A turtle running after a rabbit, all the time, is just frustrating and make no fun. Thats all what i wanted to say.

As long as this stay like this, we will do ASN as often as possible, even on defense, conquest and whatever. Sometimes we loose yes, but its too yummy to shoot these hiding Lurms boats...and there are always Lurm boats.

You know its sad that we dont need intel anymore, i always know where the Clanners are, because they dont move (until we come, then they move backwards).

Nothing against groups like CWCG or MJ12, they are really fighting, some hope at least.

[Matt Redburn]

To comment the "lurm match" screenshot von caustic above. We had 2 LRM builds per wave, a narcer, the rest were common mechs. After our scout/narc identified your 12 assassin rush in the first wave (you were next to caldera already, we were not), we pulled back first wave and spread out a bit as we wanted some space to engage your premade 12 assassine rush (who wants to engage 12 assassines in close range with sluggish assaults). Same for your second wave 12 MedPulse/AMS Crabs. Bishop, you would have done the same when it would have been vice versa, to counter such an aglile brawl wave.


I notice more trolls on clan side as on IS side, well known names, that sit somewhere far behind or off the objectives. I remember HPG domination with four Clan PPC snipers (full dropdecks: summoners and scats) on the wall a few days ago. What chance do the other 8 PUGs have for not being rolled in the circle... so everyone is pulling back... even if you don't want to...

Ah ok Bishop i just read it, i think we are talking about the same game.

Edited by Matt Redburn, 19 March 2019 - 02:03 AM.

[Bishop Six]

Matt Redburn, on 19 March 2019 - 01:34 AM, said:

To comment the "lurm match" screenshot von caustic above. We had 2 LRM builds per wave, a narcer, the rest were common mechs. After our scout/narc identified your 12 assassin rush in the first wave (you were next to caldera already, we were not), we pulled back first wave and spread out a bit as we wanted some space to engage your 12 assassine rush (who wants to engage 12 assassines in close range with sluggish assaults). Same for your second wave 12 MedPulse/AMS Crabs. Bishop, you would have done the same when it would have been vice versa, to counter such an aglile brawl wave.

I love you guys, but this other dude started with this screenshot stuff, not me. Also he is not part of your unit, so no problem. This match is for me not an example what i tried to describe. You played well and earned the close victory. When i wrote "gg lurmers" you know this was more friendly meant to you than salty. Little bit salt maybe

Edit:
Now i think i know the problem:

There are many honourable Clan groups who are fighting "normal", but we also face some special groups and most of pugs/small group compilations who have behaviours of run away style like i described. And they got more recently, too much for our tastes.

Edited by Bishop Six, 19 March 2019 - 01:46 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Literally every single thing you describe I see IS do as often as clans. You end with a very biased perspective when you mostly play 1 side

[Hellbringer]

Ive pugged my way through Clan FP without ever joining a unit and ill say this; there are a few select units and individuals who know how to play this game type, and then there are quick players who treat FP like QP with 4 mechs.

Sadly, when the guys who know how to play gets teamed up with QPers who just joined FP for ha ha's or for the events, they will just resort to damage farming/lurming/stealth/etc etc. I dont blame guys like Primo, hes a good player and he needs to do ridiculous **** in order to keep up his revenue stream. Who would watch his twich if he was pulling out 1.5k games and actually playing with the team? booooring....

its weird, when i play with a bunch of guys who are veterans in FP, i usually cant even break 2k on damage score. When im just tolling around with a bunch of other random pugs, i almost always get 2-3k but then lose the game.

[K O Z A K]

Hellbringer, on 19 March 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

Ive pugged my way through Clan FP without ever joining a unit and ill say this; there are a few select units and individuals who know how to play this game type, and then there are quick players who treat FP like QP with 4 mechs.

Sadly, when the guys who know how to play gets teamed up with QPers who just joined FP for ha ha's or for the events, they will just resort to damage farming/lurming/stealth/etc etc. I dont blame guys like Primo, hes a good player and he needs to do ridiculous **** in order to keep up his revenue stream. Who would watch his twich if he was pulling out 1.5k games and actually playing with the team? booooring....

its weird, when i play with a bunch of guys who are veterans in FP, i usually cant even break 2k on damage score. When im just tolling around with a bunch of other random pugs, i almost always get 2-3k but then lose the game.

I seriously doubt he makes a lot of money from the 20 people that watch his stream. A lot of time he still ends up with 1.5k because all drop they're sitting at 1.6km just barely scratching the enemy, while their team gets massacred because they're in effect 4 players down, and then they just get spawn farmed. I see these idiots behind their spawn on wave 1 all time when the enemy team is still over 1km away, or outside the gate shooting in when the rest of their team went in. Real good players lead their team and still do well every drop (some of the best players in FP that I know will be the first ones through the door and get 3k almost every game).

And that's not even mentioning all the times these guys literally just go off and hide somewhere just to troll the enemy team because "в етом весь прикол"

But it's all good, I've basically started ignoring the geniuses doing 5 points of damage to me at the very edge of maximum range, because I know in 5-10 minutes once we're done going through their team that only has 8 players we'll get to just cut them down as they drop out of the short bus

[Xannatharr]

Hazeclaw, on 19 March 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

And that's not even mentioning all the times these guys literally just go off and hide somewhere just to troll the enemy team because "в етом весь прикол"

But it's all good, I've basically started ignoring the geniuses doing 5 points of damage to me at the very edge of maximum range, because I know in 5-10 minutes once we're done going through their team that only has 8 players we'll get to just cut them down as they drop out of the short bus

[Bishop Six]

Hazeclaw, on 19 March 2019 - 03:53 AM, said:

Literally every single thing you describe I see IS do as often as clans. You end with a very biased perspective when you mostly play 1 side

Just No.

Clans are faster, Clans have in general more long range builds among pugs and small groups. Also they have the easy option to take much lurms as backup weapon.

All this lead to the general behaviour that Clanners are waiting, and again, from a tactical view i understand this. But lately it got ridiculuous, believe me or not.

Maybe Dudes from BCMC and DsX are not knowing this iussue because they group up with their friends and have a different understanding of how to play with Clans.

BUT i just wanted to point out that, because of the circumstances how Clan mechs and weapons are working, there is a mentality of running cowards in FP.

I excuse me for my wrong generalization of Clan pilots, sure there are normal fighting groups. The sad point is that these matches against actually fighting Clans are getting rare.

I thought you would be hear something more on what i have to say, at least i play 3-4 hours every day FP. I AM biased, but this situation is no imagination from Bishop's head, it is THAT topic on our TS for weeks now.

But thats my point:
OSOS will leave FP soon because we dont see the sense anymore to always run after hiding mechs, its no fun at all. And now think why i am writing this.

O7

[Paul Meyers DEST]

Well, if you leave who is going to shoot me?

I do recognize the problem that you described but from merc clanner site. there are several clanners that dont give a f*ck about loosing a match if they can sit the whole defense match in their first mech and than get spawnkilled cause the rest of the team is already dead. And i dont say it is Primo or fait exclusive. I often see them with brawl decks when i watch his stream and they still have the awarness whats going on during the match.
There are much more worse, making me so angry that i started to shoot them.

[vonJerg]

Bishop, when you get tired of chasing them down, time and time again, it is time to switch side. Baaam, problem solved.

[K O Z A K]

Sounds like you're advocating for clan mechs to get more armour, am I understanding that right? Its the only way they can go toe to toe with IS

Skill being completely equal clans have no choice but to kite, because IS just rolls over with armour. And kiting is a lot harder than pushing forward. You're expecting people to not play to their sides only remaining advantage and sit there and let you easy mode roll over them. See the problem here?

You also tend to run very large brawl centric groups, so you don't see all the ac2 and erll IS players that fight at max range and fall back as much as they can. Clan might have a range advantage in the medium range, but at extreme range its even

And as Von said, you're always welcome to switch (we switch multiple times per gaming session sometimes) and run the clan glass cannons into IS armour. Against pugs it will still work, but against good players with good IS brawl mechs you'll be in for a bad time, and then you'll understand those clanners arent cowards but are playing their mechs the way they're supposed to

[Grus]

Hazeclaw, on 22 March 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

Sounds like you're advocating for clan mechs to get more armour, am I understanding that right? Its the only way they can go toe to toe with IS

Skill being completely equal clans have no choice but to kite, because IS just rolls over with armour. And kiting is a lot harder than pushing forward. You're expecting people to not play to their sides only remaining advantage and sit there and let you easy mode roll over them. See the problem here?

You also tend to run very large brawl centric groups, so you don't see all the ac2 and erll IS players that fight at max range and fall back as much as they can. Clan might have a range advantage in the medium range, but at extreme range its even

And as Von said, you're always welcome to switch (we switch multiple times per gaming session sometimes) and run the clan glass cannons into IS armour. Against pugs it will still work, but against good players with good IS brawl mechs you'll be in for a bad time, and then you'll understand those clanners arent cowards but are playing their mechs the way they're supposed to

On that line of thinking, I would advocate for a much higher speed than the comparable IS mech. If armor/jam chance/ actual range advantage being significant being out of the question.

[Ihlrath]

So. What? The clans' one remaining advantage is generally faster mechs. They have paper for armor. Brawling with IS on their terms is just a dumb move tactically. If you can flank them or get better cover sure. But running up and face tanking an IS group in clan mechs is suicide.

[Grus]

Ihlrath, on 22 March 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

So. What? The clans' one remaining advantage is generally faster mechs. They have paper for armor. Brawling with IS on their terms is just a dumb move tactically. If you can flank them or get better cover sure. But running up and face tanking an IS group in clan mechs is suicide.

Problem is in FW clan being on defense, kiting really isnt a option. If you do, you risk the objectives being taken out and you lose.

[K O Z A K]

Grus, on 22 March 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

Problem is in FW clan being on defense, kiting really isnt a option. If you do, you risk the objectives being taken out and you lose.

no, but you get to set the field. If your firing lines are properly setup with horizontal and vertical spread and good cross fires, when IS walks in they're fighting like 1v4 for a short time, so you should be able to drop (or at least really mess up) a few mechs before they really get a chance to fire back, evening the field quite a bit

[Grus]

Hazeclaw, on 22 March 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

no, but you get to set the field. If your firing lines are properly setup with horizontal and vertical spread and good cross fires, when IS walks in they're fighting like 1v4 for a short time, so you should be able to drop (or at least really mess up) a few mechs before they really get a chance to fire back, evening the field quite a bit

True, but most often that doesn't happen. Stacked up (coordination is op ) and "as one!" Pushes will nullify the 100-200 meter advantage in less than 10 seconds. Especially if the first 2/4 mechs are build bullet sponges (anh/atlas). The push first. May take 4 mechs 1/2 alphas befor it pops, and by that time the other 8 srm/mrm cyclops are in 300m and wrecking your day. Now fire is diverted to self preservation vs the dedicated brawl force while the trail just starts picking apart the objectives at leisure.

Can it be countered, of course. But it requires ALL pilots to hit the CT every shot. But even then, a ANH will take 3/4 alpha to the CT before going down (with out twisting.)