271 replies to this topic

[vandalhooch]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 March 2019 - 04:43 AM, said:

This is some weird kindergarden physics going on here. How can something tranfer anything to anyone if its "destroyed"? If you blow something up, then its particles are either destroyed, i.e. turned into radiation, or simply scattered in all directions of infinite cosmos never touching anything in your vacuum. Something that has been "destroyed" can't be attached to anything anymore.

It is pointless to discuss unless you specify EXACTLY how a heat sink works and EXACTLY which part of it, or which substance in it or whatever actually is responsible for storing / tranferring heat.

And if anything, damaging (not completely destroying) a torso should INCREASE heat dissipation, because as we all know making holes in something improves both ventillation and surface area, and more surface area always means faster cooling.

Claims others are using "kindergarten physics" but has his own special definition of destroyed that special pleads his stance.

[vandalhooch]

Hazeclaw, on 18 March 2019 - 06:24 AM, said:

You people didnt finish middle school, did you? If the heat sink gets blown off the mech the heat in it certainly doesn't disappear, the heat leaves the mech with the blown off heatsink, falls to the ground and is now very slowly dissipating on the ground/water/air. If the heatsink doesn't get blown off the mech, is damaged to a point it stops working, but remains part of the system your heat capacity/limit wouldn't even decrease, as you still have a chunk of metal which heat sits in/is transferred to/from, but you would lose the dissipation it provided, you still wouldn't see a magic heat spike from the heat already stored in the broken heatsink.

Please go find out what BT lore heat sinks are supposed to be . . . hint mechs have radiators that are separate from their heat sinks (pumps).

PhoenixFire55, on 18 March 2019 - 06:24 AM, said:

The fact that PGI can't make components properly fall off for whatever dumb reason, doesn't mean that they aren't supposed to "fall off", or rather "be destroyed" when they are destroyed. Again, for the who-knows-what-time today ... "destroyed" component means exactly that ... DESTROYED. Gone. No more. Naah ah. Nope. Doesn't exist anymore. Period.

Kindergarten physics.

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Even if we want to be dumb and assume that something that was just destroyed, i.e. torn to shreds, evaporated and scattered by the wind is still somehow by the sheer force of our dumb will attached to the rest of the mech, then it still has no reason whatsoever to transfer its heat to the rest of the mech that isn't magically labeled 'destroyed'.

You really are picturing anime mecha combat in your mind aren't you!?!

Quote

I have a feeling that people here don't even understand what 'heat' is. 'Heat' isn't a water in a glass. It doesn't have to go anywhere if you destroy a glass, because it doesn't exist without a glass to begin with.

And the material of the glass doesn't stop existing because the glass was "destroyed."

[vandalhooch]

PhoenixFire55, on 18 March 2019 - 08:02 AM, said:

You talk about thermodynamics while you don't even understand what 'heat' is ... lol

I'll let you in on a secret ... Don't tell anyone, coz it can blow their minds off too. Heat is nothing but kinetic energy. And just like kinetic energy of a gauss slug becomes a different form of energy in order to explode your face, 'heat' stored in a heat sink can easily become something else entirely too. Like for example, the kinetic energy of bits and pieces of your exploding heat sink flying at high velocity away from your mech.




FTFY.

Laws of Thermodynamics be damned, huh?

[vandalhooch]

Prototelis, on 22 March 2019 - 07:49 AM, said:

lol. So in other words, no source. Nothing in any of the articles describes loss of engine crits/heatsinks as a loss of just "shielding."

Read the part about what the engine heat sinks are: "[color=#000000]The second way of generating power is purely secondary and is called regenerative cooling. Regenerative cooling uses waste heat to generate power. Usually this is done with a closed-cycle gas or steam turbine. In a small way this is a part of the 'Mech's cooling system, even though this is not a part of the Heat sink system proper - these are the so-called "free" Heat sinks in the engine, and in configuration they are nothing like the other Heat Sinks mounted in the 'Mech elsewhere."[/color]

Damage the regenerative cooling sinks and you lose heat sinks and have to ramp up the reactor's output to make up for their loss (i.e. more heat generated).

[2DaT]

After giving a little thought about it, I came to a conclusion that the 'physics' debate does not make much sense, because the whole BT franchise violates it. Thus it's not an excuse to add an arbitary mechanic that nobody likes. If they wanted to make STD engines more appealing, they could lower the tonnage.

Edited by 2DaT, 24 March 2019 - 07:14 PM.

[Tesunie]

2DaT, on 24 March 2019 - 07:06 PM, said:

Thus it's not an excuse to add an arbitary mechanic that nobody likes.

This mechanic isn't as arbitrary as you seem to imply. Maybe how it was interpreted and added into this game might seem "arbitrary", but there are penalties for damage done to an engine. Those penalties involves either death (IS XL side torso destruction) or some aspect of your heat being "mucked around with" (cXL or LFE). (Then again, it would affect Std engines as well, but not upon side torso destruction, but for that we would need to have engines with health pools like our weapons do...)

The consideration here is how this heat penalty can be interpreted within the realm of this video game compared to it's TT origin. Should it produce a heat spike? Just disable heat sink function (cooling)? Should it just reduce threshold from the bottom of the heat pool (rather than the top)? Or should we have it actually produce heat per engine critical destroyed (5 heat per second for one crit and 10 heat per second for two crits*), which could heat cripple a mech to "never able to cool down"**?

I would also like to mention, reducing the tonnage of Std engines would honestly defeat the purpose of even having them in the game at that point. We need some kind of penalty system for when an advanced engine loses it's side torso, to offset the weight savings of the engine. Otherwise, everyone would always take the lightest engine that has the lowest risks. The debate is: Are the current penalties for advanced engines too much? Could another mechanic be better for the task at hand? Does the current system need adjustment for better game play, while still retaining engine choice and identity?

* We are only dealing with two crit damage, as no engine currently in game only has a single crit in a side torso.
** This last option would be most true to TT, but would result in the most frustrating implementation possible for game play. This is not an actual recommendation, but just a pointing to what it "should" be.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Right. That made 14 pages of some interesting reading. When are the next 14 pages due?

[John Bronco]

No more pages, just revert back to how it used to be.

[2DaT]

BlaizerP, on 25 March 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

No more pages, just revert back to how it used to be.

This.

Edited by 2DaT, 25 March 2019 - 01:47 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 March 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

Right. That made 14 pages of some interesting reading. When are the next 14 pages due?

BlaizerP, on 25 March 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

No more pages, just revert back to how it used to be.

2DaT, on 25 March 2019 - 01:47 AM, said:

This.

You'll think 14 pages is enough for a roll-back/nerf?

A quick ducking gave me 4 threads with 16, 18, 24 and 36 pages of posts calling for the Piranha to be nerfed to acceptable levels (that's 94 pages between the 4 big ones alone, I'm sure you remember the forum being flooded with them). There was also a nice 32 page thread on why Clan mech's should have TT values instead of being nerfed to provide parity with IS tech...

I'm seeing a trend here: Clan Tech OP > Salt mines open for business > Clans get "nerfed" > Salt miners start working double-shifts > Nothing changes > Salt mines dry up > "Balance" achieved.

[General Solo]

I like the pronounced risk reward aspect of the whole XL vs Light/ClanXL vs standard engine thing.

Bought a quickdraw IV4 put XL it was good

Put Standard it was safer....but slower, still good

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 March 2019 - 06:47 AM.

[ingramli]

VonBruinwald, on 25 March 2019 - 06:39 AM, said:

You'll think 14 pages is enough for a roll-back/nerf?

A quick ducking gave me 4 threads with 16, 18, 24 and 36 pages of posts calling for the Piranha to be nerfed to acceptable levels (that's 94 pages between the 4 big ones alone, I'm sure you remember the forum being flooded with them). There was also a nice 32 page thread on why Clan mech's should have TT values instead of being nerfed to provide parity with IS tech...

I'm seeing a trend here: Clan Tech OP > Salt mines open for business > Clans get "nerfed" > Salt miners start working double-shifts > Nothing changes > Salt mines dry up > "Balance" achieved.

Let's face it, salt will always exist how matter how the balance change as Clan XL is supposed to be better than IS' XL. The only real way to "fix" it is to make outfits of both sides to be available to both sides' mechs, period.