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Mwo Global Update - March 18-2019


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#21 Rakia Time

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 11:57 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 18 March 2019 - 08:24 PM, said:



Match maker did work for about a year or so pretty good.

But then the upward bias creeped in creating the T1 problem you mentioned.

Why?

Due to the fact at their are two (2) possible conditions to lose PSR.
And six (6) possible conditions to increase PSR for the current quick play MM as I under stand it..

As this image shows:
Posted Image




Making the PSR condtitions for winning games the same as currently for losing games IMO fix the problem in a minimal effort but effective way.

Thought I would mention it as Paul maybe reading.
Posted Image

so with the system you are proposing i will be losing PSR every match....i agree, i belong in tier 10 xD

#22 BenMillard

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:19 AM

You don't get any Match Score change for drop calling. Yet we all know that can turn the tide of a match - for better or worse! Match Score isn't the final metric for player performance so a system which exclusively used that, without recognising the overall result, would not reflect the true value of each player in the context of a team game.

The current system favours winning - whatever you did, you helped your team more than it hurt your team. If you under-perform massively, maybe it's because you were the first to go scouting and your team won because you called a target or popped a UAV before getting wrecked.

Basing the ranking up/down on a fixed Match Score number has another obvious problem: players will drift to either extreme of the scale, because they tend to play above or below that level. Bottom of Tier 5 and top of Tier 1 will have a cluster of players with almost nobody through Tier 4, 3 and 2.

Setting a fixed Match Score target suitable to each tier would work. Upon entering Tier 3, say, 300 could be the target for raise/lower progress along that bar. Enter Tier 2 and perhaps it's 400. Tier 1 could be 500. Perhaps 100 for Tier 5 but make it quite a 'long' bar so they have enough actual experience before mixing with Tier 4 players.

Tiers are useful so players are generally drawn from 1 level above or below, where possible. This helps games be more consistent. Making the bar fairly 'long' within each Tier also dampens the effect of getting a very good or bad run of luck.

It's also worth mentioning the upward creep is quite subtle. It gives an overall sense of progress to players, encouraging them to keep playing and keep trying to improve without everyone reaching Tier 1 after a month of play.

For context, I'm 1.25 years in and have been middle of T2 most of 2019 so far. That's where I seem to stay as that's my true level, so the upward creep doesn't flatter players beyond their actual ability over this timescale.

Over very long timescales, such as several years, perhaps it does get under-performing players like into T1. Even then, as shown in the chart, they aren't being complete potatoes to break even or rank up with each team win. Also, if they have played that many games they will have seen everything before and that gradual build-up of actual game experience is mirrored quite well by a general upward creep 'XP bar' mechanic, imho.

With a fairly small FP population, Tiers might not work but the overall team win/loss should still affect how each player is ranked for that game. Win as a team, lose as a team...this is even more true in FP from what I've seen.

Solaris ELO is a frustrating experience because there is so little history. It swings back and forth by huge amounts when new players start badly then get better. The lack of a general upward trend can be demoralising - it's fair after 25 games but before that, a bit of a lottery. If FP uses a separate system from QP, such big swings might make it meaningless and cause the games to be extremely imbalanced at first.

Edited by BenMillard, 19 March 2019 - 01:25 AM.


#23 Simulacrum

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:26 AM

Thank you for the information.
Next time I would appreciate it if you give us that information earlier. :)


View PostOZHomerOZ, on 18 March 2019 - 08:24 PM, said:

Match maker did work for about a year or so pretty good.
But then the upward bias creeped in creating the T1 problem you mentioned.

Why?

Due to the fact at their are two (2) possible conditions to lose PSR.
And six (6) possible conditions to increase PSR for the current quick play MM as I under stand it..

As this image shows:
Posted Image




Making the PSR condtitions for winning games the same as currently for losing games IMO fix the problem in a minimal effort but effective way.

There are so many responsible factors for high Match Scores, depending on your comrades-in-arms, about commands and if ppl listen to them or not, thata change in this raise/drop list, like here, would never solve any problem.

If the Match score would favor the correct playing of the game mode I would appriciate it.
For example If you conquer 5 bases and do no damage you get a pretty low MS even if your team wins the whole match by it. Ppl who did nothing for these points but play "conquer-flavoured Skirmish" get their points.
Same for domination. If you join the beacon as fast as possible and your team mates circle around it because .. well you know just because .. and you get killed early you get nothing.

Currently the game modes in QP could be re-named:
  • Skirmish
  • Skirmish with fancy bases to conquer or not
  • Skirmish with a funny yellow circle and a timer
  • Skirmish with a base somwhere
  • Skirmish with a huge base and collectables


#24 Nathan White

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:49 AM

Frozen City
Frozen Ctiy (old)
Frozen City (old, night)
Forest Colony Snow
Alpine Peaks
Polar Highlands
Boreal Vault
and... Snow Canyons

Maybe we have too much snow maps?

#25 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:52 AM

View PostSimulacrum, on 19 March 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Thank you for the information.
Next time I would appreciate it if you give us that information earlier. Posted Image


How much earlier than a month before schedule would you like to be informed? Posted Image

#26 Simulacrum

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:05 AM

View PostAidan Crenshaw, on 19 March 2019 - 01:52 AM, said:

How much earlier than a month before schedule would you like to be informed? Posted Image

I thought the MM update was scheduled for the March update? Had that in mind.
If not, my fault, didn't said a word. Thank you Aidan. :)

#27 Chiasson Brinker

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:42 AM

View PostNathan White, on 19 March 2019 - 01:49 AM, said:

Frozen City
Frozen Ctiy (old)
Frozen City (old, night)
Forest Colony Snow
Alpine Peaks
Polar Highlands
Boreal Vault
and... Snow Canyons

Maybe we have too much snow maps?


I mean... It’s almost like they’re in Canada or something. It’s almost like “cold” has a statistically high probability of being a common biome galactically speaking.

Edited by Chiasson Brinker, 19 March 2019 - 02:43 AM.


#28 KodiakGW

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 03:59 AM

View PostGeewiz 27, on 18 March 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

This is a Faction play update only it has nothing to do with the solaris game mode.


And yet their is mention of adding a map in place of not having FP update ready for delivery.


#29 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 04:29 AM

And how is the earlier injection of winter canyon related to solaris or anything else? The just shifted the schedules to bide more time for the FP update and PTS tests.

#30 Captain Caveman DE

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 04:30 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 18 March 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:


While the update could potentially make it in for April's patch, doing so would not enable us to properly test the updates both internally and run a PTS to ensure stability on production servers.



Okay, I'll bite..

Please realise that in order for a PTS to get used, you have to encourage people to go there. in the past you (as in PGI, not you personally) have done THE EXACT OPPOSITE. pls don't run an event during PTS-time, or if you do, do it on the PTS.

some of us want to test; we just can't. cause there's not enough of us 'stupid' people out there that rather tinker with stuff than getting rewards for doing the same, repetetive games on the liveservers.

every. single. PTS I've been on has been a ghosttown, aside from the one with the cicada-warhorn-reward (think it was clanlasers and gauss?!). it is about time you (again: you~pgi) learn from that.

#31 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 04:43 AM

The Alpha-PTS rewarded players for participating. That should make a return.

#32 Jackal Noble

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:58 AM

View PostChiasson Brinker, on 19 March 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

I mean... It’s almost like they’re in Canada or something. It’s almost like “cold” has a statistically high probability of being a common biome galactically speaking.

Dude, Vancouver does not equal Canada weather. It's a very temperate region thanks to the Mountain/ocean effect.

#33 Appogee

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:00 AM

Remind when it was that Paul initially asked for 'easy low effort ideas'? Wasn't it like, 9 months ago ... ?!

But I do appreciate that they modded Canyon Network a bit instead of just skinning it. Any variety is welcome.

#34 RickySpanish

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:35 AM

When it's done is always better than when it's time. Nice to see the new map making it in, and it being geometrically different as well.

View PostJackal Noble, on 19 March 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Dude, Vancouver does not equal Canada weather. It's a very temperate region thanks to the Mountain/ocean effect.


It rains all the time, when I was there I managed to snag one of their precious days of sunshine. Muahahah!

#35 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:38 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 18 March 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:

This is the frozen version of Canyon Network that was recently mentioned in the Roadmap. This alternate version of Canyon Network is more than a visual change. There are new visible pathways to the upper deck areas near the center and there are a few more blocker areas and assets to make the gameplay unique to this map compared to the original Canyon Network.


So basically frozen canyon is what polar should have been - seriously someone dig some trenches in that thing.

#36 Z Paradox

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:41 AM

View PostJavin, on 18 March 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

Thank you for communicating.

Any chance you could release map tools so your player base could make maps for you? You could get new maps every patch! More maps would help this game out tremendously.

Thank you for working to improve FP.


Posted Image

#37 Acersecomic

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:46 AM

Oh goodie, one of my the most hated maps is getting a sort of rework where you'll be able to move more and not be stuck in death canyons if you go down! Hopefuly.

#38 Kubernetes

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:13 AM

At least they're working on FP!

#39 Ghastly

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:23 AM

View PostBenMillard, on 19 March 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

You don't get any Match Score change for drop calling. Yet we all know that can turn the tide of a match - for better or worse! Match Score isn't the final metric for player performance so a system which exclusively used that, without recognising the overall result, would not reflect the true value of each player in the context of a team game.
This, and also match score depends more on damage dealt, when efficient kills make you more likely to win. I think match score needs a pretty decent overhaul before such a change to ranking and matchmaking is realistic.

Quote

Solaris ELO is a frustrating experience because there is so little history. It swings back and forth by huge amounts when new players start badly then get better. The lack of a general upward trend can be demoralising - it's fair after 25 games but before that, a bit of a lottery. If FP uses a separate system from QP, such big swings might make it meaningless and cause the games to be extremely imbalanced at first.
And also Elo (it's not an acronym, it's named after the guy who made it) is very inappropriate for team games with random match-makers. It makes sense for comp because you have predetermined teams, but Elo makes no sense for quick play.

Thanks for the communication! Sucks that it has to be delayed, but better to have it delayed and working than rushed out and broken.

Edited by Ghastly, 19 March 2019 - 08:24 AM.


#40 The Man with the Plan

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:55 AM

I agree with what others have said already, thankyou for communicating, Ty for taking the time to put out quality patches, etc, and especially: a Solaris city burning would be amazing Posted Image





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