34 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

I'll make it sweet and simple:

> Missile Health is low considering prevalent AMS use, defeating the point of the LRM rework because it's hardly effective where there's a lot of AMS. And this also extends to SRMs and MRMs, while even worse for ATMs.

> DF arc is somewhat comfortable and synergistic with direct-fire weapons now, however the lock-time is still not competitive enough for DF use all things considering. An even lower-arc equal to that of ATMs, and at about 33.33% of difference between IDF and DF lock time should be done.

> IDF longer lock-time based on distance is counter-intuitive for the purpose of IDF. It would work better if it served as DF shorter lock-time based on distance. DF users, after all, would stand to have better safety from return fire with distance, so being closer means faster lock-on would be better. IDF already have the distance-penalty component due to longer time to target, no need to double-down.

> The new old-maps ain't exactly that common to show up for matches. Please increase it for the time being.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 March 2019 - 07:37 PM.

[GeminiWolf]

I hear violins

[InspectorG]

All i want to know:

Is the Corsair fun? it doesn't have to be 'ggod' for me cuz im nerding our and gonna LARP some 40K Ork things.

LRMs worth brawling with now? I have a stupid idea for my SPL/uPL Kin Wolf that involves a LRM20 for brawling.

[Athom83]

InspectorG, on 19 March 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

All i want to know:

Is the Corsair fun? it doesn't have to be 'ggod' for me cuz im nerding our and gonna LARP some 40K Ork things.

Its very fun. Though, it just can't run 'meta' builds. No matter how hard you try, the "tried and true" builds just don't work that well on the chassis. Absolutely bat**** insane builds that mix 3-4 different types of weapons does on the other hand.

InspectorG, on 19 March 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

LRMs worth brawling with now? I have a stupid idea for my SPL/uPL Kin Wolf that involves a LRM20 for brawling.

No. They're far better at the midrange support, as they were supposed to be.

[Prototelis]

Auto aim shouldn't compete with actual aim.

That said I'd save your opinions for when the post patch meta shifts in a few weeks time.

[YueFei]

You should be able to fire your missiles "maddog", with larger spread and no guidance, and then they curve towards your target when you've acquired lock. Then you're not waiting for lock and waiting for missile flight-time-to-target.

And hell, if they could then make it so the missiles guide towards the body part you've painted with your reticule, that'd be even better. If you don't have it directly over a body part, it gets wider spread and looser guidance, but if you keep it on a body part, the spread tightens and the missiles guide directly for that body part.

[Novakaine]

No such thing as auto-aim never once has this game moved my damn mouse.
Or is this in the patch now?

[Monkey Lover]

I have no problem with ams working well but there should be a counter. For example skill points to increase missile health could be added.

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 19 March 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

No such thing as auto-aim never once has this game moved my damn mouse.

But people have been claiming for ages that LRMs are auto-aim. It's in the internet. Therefore, it must be true.

Having said that, it's possible via TensorFlow/Keras + Camera + Mouse Emulation Software.

Monkey Lover, on 19 March 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

I have no problem with ams working well but there should be a counter. For example skill points to increase missile health could be added.

Missile health being a "skill" just does not compute for me.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 19 March 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:

Auto aim shouldn't compete with actual aim.

But it shouldn't be utter crap either.

If bonafide DF build would come on top anyways, why the resistance?

That's a little bit too elitist to me, but you do you.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 March 2019 - 07:44 PM.

[Prototelis]

Novakaine, on 19 March 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

No such thing as auto-aim never once has this game moved my damn mouse.

Please, you don't even have to track accurately to get or maintain locks. The weapon system does all of the hard work for it. It's auto-aim.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 19 March 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

Please, you don't even have to track accurately to get or maintain locks. The weapon system does all of the hard work for it. It's auto-aim.

With 25-degree cone, you still have to track it with a degree of precision.

At this point, it's basically just a laser with a wide cone, or a slow-moving more spreading LBX. If you already have good skill of aiming; (1) you're basically just gimping yourself with less reactivity due to the need of lock to be effective; (2) the longer time-to-target than what would otherwise instantaneous hit like laser, which would likely end up missing if you can't maintain lock; and (3) the spread that makes it inevitably poorer at concentrating fire.

There's a difference between "easy" and "easier", if it was truly easy-mode, i would share the concern, but it's not -- It has it's fair share of hurdles that complicate things. As it stands "auto-aim" in your use is nothing more than a buzz-word, used with little nuance.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 March 2019 - 07:52 PM.

[Prototelis]

It functions just like auto aim in any other shooter. Put cursor in relative area of target -> get hits with minimal effort.

It is auto aim.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 19 March 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

It functions just like auto aim in any other shooter. Put cursor in relative area of target -> get hits with minimal effort.

It is auto aim.

Minimal effort =/= no effort. Keep that in mind. "easy" =/= "easier".

[Saiphas Cain]

If they didn't want to completely invalidate a weapon style with this patch as they claim they have utterly failed. The nerf to missile health with large ( in this case LRM 15 ) launchers and increased effectiveness of AMS means not a single missile got through even using direct fire with target I personally tagged in my last match. Not a single missile. I can't really evaluate their effectiveness when they're all shot to hell en route. So the only way to use LRM's is now to have everyone on your team bring an LRM 5 and someone NARC's the way the new math works.

[Prototelis]

Wow semantics. Strong argument.

It is the "easiest" weapon to use in the game, and certainly "easier" than actually picking components off from a silhouette. It is "easy."

[Johny Rocket]

Monkey Lover, on 19 March 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

I have no problem with ams working well but there should be a counter. For example skill points to increase missile health could be added.

ams shouldn't shoot through terrain It does which is hurting the LOS game with lrms. The missiles were always going high before exposing them to ams so it was just a thing but now with the low arc ams from the other side of a hill shouldn't be hitting them.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 19 March 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

Wow semantics. Strong argument.

It is the "easiest" weapon to use in the game, and certainly "easier" than actually picking components off from a silhouette.

It is "easy."

And that is the problem, if it's easier of the bunch, yet the rest is just complicated, then there's hardly any merit for the "easy".

That's like "easy mode" for dark-souls, but you still die most of the cases.

I mean, as opposed of just point-and-shoot, you gotta watch out for ECM, you gotta need to have reliable locks, you need to lock for starters. That's a lot of hurdles, and you're just basing it on the mechanical difficulty?

Yeah, real easy.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 March 2019 - 08:42 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Prototelis, on 19 March 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

Wow semantics. Strong argument.

It is the "easiest" weapon to use in the game, and certainly "easier" than actually picking components off from a silhouette. It is "easy."

You hate lurms we get it. Now run along because you are not contributing to the topic you are sidetracking it with the same old argument that is in thousands of threads going back to 2012. It's sliding the thread making it hard to follow OPs discussion and is very bad forum behavior.

[Weeny Machine]

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

But it shouldn't be utter crap either.

If bonafide DF build would come on top anyways, why the resistance?

That's a little bit too elitist to me, but you do you.

Indirect LRM fire is the worst thing for gameplay.
Lights engage...Missiles incoming
Flankers engage...Missiles incoming
An idiot gets caught out of position...Missiles incoming

And all of this from half a map away with obstacles between the launcher and the target.


Also, define "utter crap". If your single lrm boat shows up and fires into a bulk of 4 mechs which are equipped to counter that potato weapon system...do you really think that you should overcome the defense measures of 4 mechs? Just an example