sorry for bringing it up again, but I really want that information:
Dear PGI: Pls let us know if and under what conditions the redeemcodes included in an MW5 pre-oder will count towards the eligibility for the MWO 2019 customer appreciacion reward program
this will really be an inportant point in my decision to buy or not to buy...
Can't give you a definitive answer, but given that redeeming the Marauder II code has filled out the Marauder II page completely as if I had bought it straight through that page, I have little doubt in it.
Wait so am I correct in hearing that MW5 will not have component customization beyond brand of weapons? That kind of pisses me off if so. I dont give a crap about broken lore, I want to build my mech reasonably based on MWO's system.
Personally not a fan of MWO's system, but I'm certain about a few dozen mods allowing it will come out. Some quite simply just copying MWO's system and others allowing even more or less freedom.
Chiasson Brinker, on 25 March 2019 - 08:24 PM, said:
And yet, accurate to the time period being portrayed. You're a down on your luck merc operating out of a Leopard, not a Defiance Industries company man operating out of a factory on Hesperus II. The kind of mechbay facilities needed to swap out major components like engines, armour or internal structure just aren't available to most mercenaries in a pre-4th Succession War setting, and whatever is available would be either expensive as all get out or else reserved for House units.
Agreed. I've been watching a number of things that have influenced Battletech from back in the day, and surprisingly so many of the financial and developmental hardships you often see mentioned/experience in campaigns in Battletech come up a lot in...of all places, Gundam. Specifically the late 1970s early 1980s "Universal Century". For comparison, you can think of the average mech variant as the mass production model, with special versions modified for aces (heroes) that prove themselves or were too expensive to mass produce and thus given to aces.
Even among them, it is still standard unless the variant has the subtitle "Custom", such as the Gouf Custom in 08th MS Team (the most Battletech "Gundam" I had ever seen until watching others in the same universal century universe, it even gets into the gritty of construction 'mobile suits' [mechs].) Battletech's Mech Taser influence is even in that scene.
However, even without access to Hesperus II's massive supply of easy-to-use Refit Kits or other assortments of Aftermarket modifications or access to a manufacturing plant one should still be able to perform Jerry-rigged duct-taped tweaks and changes akin to Votoms in which nearby weapon systems were grafted onto the Votom, secured and tied into the system to give it an edge in an otherwise unfair fight.
I'm hoping my mod will provide that feel, while offering a few locations that can do more significant changes. Check them out in the Battletech Discussion threads here on the MWO forum.
This Civil War era variant is built using a Hollis Mk. III Endo Steel chassis and powered by a Magna 260 extralight engine, using the saved weight to make the C2 a dedicated long range 'Mech. The primary weapons are two Federated LRM-15 launchers mated to an Artemis IV fire control system, and fed by four tons of ammo. The Medium Lasers have been replaced with two Defiance Shredder LB-X Autocannon/2s, sharing a single ton of ammo. While this makes the Catapultvulnerable to close range attacks, it also makes it extremely deadly at long range.
Also, for those following my LBX discussions, isn't funny that sporting twin shotguns makes it vulnerable at close range?
<.< If you follow those discussions you'd know the real reason why...
With all the content we get from the pre order the real freebie will be the MW 5 game when it comes out.
Getting dollar for dollar MC and all the mechs and in game items is totally worth it.
Wait so am I correct in hearing that MW5 will not have component customization beyond brand of weapons? That kind of pisses me off if so. I dont give a crap about broken lore, I want to build my mech reasonably based on MWO's system.
We will still have MWO for the "F the Lore" people, but PGI needs to stay firm and keep MW5 true to the series (at least in the official product) although they are going to allow modding, so people can make the game however they want (or have the skill to make).
We will still have MWO for the "F the Lore" people, but PGI needs to stay firm and keep MW5 true to the series (at least in the official product)
Going by "lore", you can mount whatever weapons you want wherever you want as long as you have the tonnage and space to mount them; money, time and facilities aside. And even guys who started the line like Weisman seem to be cool with fiddling with weight and crit slots for things, judging from HBS' work.
Going by "lore", you can mount whatever weapons you want wherever you want as long as you have the tonnage and space to mount them; money, time and facilities aside. And even guys who started the line like Weisman seem to be cool with fiddling with weight and crit slots for things, judging from HBS' work.
You also eventually get a ship with its own automated factory.
Something that you're not going to have in MW5 Mercs as far as we can tell. Although a recent set of screenshots suggests that you might have a home base which could open the possibilities up, for the most part as far as we can tell you are running from a ship with four very cramped repair bays.
There's actually a single mech (literally only one) in Battletech tabletop that has a four slot setup (edit, 3 slots). This was perhaps the reason for putting 4 (3) slots in the CT in HBS BT to make "recreating" it an option. Referring to the Chameleon TRC-4B (also referred to as the CHM-3 Chameleon Training Scout)
In terms of construction rules, the goal is to let you create anything in tabletop.
Gundam? Sure. Just look below. But construction rules and custom modification rules are very different. Don't get me wrong, I think (and am modding for) we need more customization than what PGI is permitting should be in the game. Simply because "you can swap a medium laser for a different brand medium laser+™" as the limit of modification is pretty doggone dumb. I see why they're doing it, it makes the overall work so much easier for their already strained team. This said there's still reasonable (as in more realistic but still acceptable) limitations in customization versus creation that people just don't seem to realize.
First quote is creation rules and making a really stupid overly-equipped machine.
Second quote is customizing a Jenner into a Jenner with ferro armor 4 years before it is actually created while using A FULL FACTORY and God-modded technicians. It was a disaster.
Third quote is the equipment necessary for repairs and modifications.
And the last quote is a simple weapon modification in 3062 from on board a Leopard (showing that some customization should be possible; but note this is easy in 3062, doing this before 3032 would be met with a lot more problems as before the Helm Memory Core's propagation, a lot of techs don't fully comprehend the things they work on..)
Spoiler
Koniving, on 05 April 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:
So, a running joke among some of us is how you could build anything in Battletech... which while we joke about it, the fact is it was deliberately done this way to encourage people to get into the tabletop during its infancy, as such the slot count is the same for all scales of mech and any restrictions is purely fluff-related, and can be taken to heart or ignored completely.
Welp.
I went for the most ridiculous thing I could think of.
Here is the Heavy Arms Custom.
16.7 meters tall.
9.5 tons (took me 90)
4 Gatling guns (technically they're beam gatlings so large pulses would be the best fit, maybe x-pulse) Used RAC/2s
52 Micro Missiles (managed 50 as RLs)
44 Homing Missiles (managed 42 as one-use LRMs and SRMs)
4 chest gatling guns (4 Heavy MGs)
10 DHS to manage it.
Identical ground speed.
No JJs though.
Enough ammo (2 tons) to fire the RAC/2s at the full 6 ratings/10 seconds for 37.5 seconds barring any chances to jam. Or at the slowest rate of fire for all four RAC/2s, enough to fire for 225 seconds or 3 minutes and 45 seconds.
Not bad BT, you really could build just about anything.
Koniving, on 18 September 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:
This said. What you do in "Creating your mech" aka "Make your gundam rules" is NOT the same as "Customization" rules in a campaign. There's a drastic difference between the two. In a full on campaign, just changing out a weapon could take several days. Swap that heatsink to make room for another ammo bin? Welp, there went five days. Change the armor type?
Upwards of over a month to three with a mercenary-sized dedicated facility, several technicians working OVERTIME (including two GOD MODE techs because otherwise the colossal failures with ELITE technicians are so dramatic that you have to throw away the mech into a junk pile!, a crapload of ASTechs (assistant technicians), and somewhere of twice the money it takes to just buy a mech variant that has ferro armor is gonna be spent on allowing for all this to happen.
I tried this three times and it required some GM god-moding to get the conditions to do so. To ensure everything was done by the book this was done in Megamek HQ (wanted to do it in MekWars as that is BT's online community warfare, but it would probably take me over a year to build up a unit far enough to even attempt this). Overtime was permitted and each technician (a total of four) was given 60 hours to work with the mech for each week. Each tech had a full compliment of AsTechs of average skill. The mech was moved to the proper facility to ensure that the conditions were perfect to make the change. Use of a Power Man cargo mech was authorized to assist in the repairs, with an elite pilot and modified to have an Easy to pilot quirk to prevent any issues from his participation (which there were no issues from him in all of these attempts). The budget allotted was 13 million cbills (more than 4 times the cost of a ferro-equipped Jenner from the factory) and after each attempt, the saved game was reloaded to recreate the same conditions. The result?
Result 1: The mech was rendered useless due to a mistake that both broke some section of the center torso structure which caused the engine damage and when I attempted to correct that, the engine got fused permanently. In the end, the mech needed to be discarded as it could no longer function without being able to replace the engine, and since that was impossible, I tried to sell it. Because of the issues, it was also given the Bad Reputation design quirk which should just cut its value in half, but I couldn't even sell it as we could not find a buyer. The roll to meet for finding a buyer even with the god-modded technician was "impossible." It was discarded out back into a trash heap. So many millions down the drain. 9,573,872 million out of 13 million was spent on the process and that all went to the toilet to flush.
Result 2: Marginal success! I was able to convert the Jenner JF7-D into a ferro-armor totting mech. Unfortunately, in doing so I wound up getting the design quirk Exposed Weapon Linkage on one of my lasers. Another laser ended up with Non-Functional. The other two were fine. The SRM launcher now had "Ammo feed problems" which could lead to jamming. It also somehow lost its cooling jacket, adding an additional 2 heat every time I fired the SRM. It took another 3 weeks to attempt to fix these issues, during which one of the god modded technicians quit...and took the mech with him. (The reasoning from the die roll was he felt he wasn't getting paid enough. I had about 4 million left at the time but no option was given for me to give him a raise. As such, I had somewhere around 9 million spent.)
Result 3: Encouraged by the previous marginal success, I dedicated triple the amount of money this time, a total of 39,000,000 cbills just for this project to turn one JR7-D into a Ferro-armor Jenner. The extra money was dedicated to making sure the God Modded techs were paid a lot more so that I wouldn't have a repeat of the previous issue. I was met with a colossal flop. This time during the process, despite being god modded for incredible success... one of the technicians (Scotty from Star Trek) accidentally fused a leg actuator so it one, could not move, and two, could not be replaced. It was otherwise largely successful. But what good is a mech that can't walk?
Needless to say, even with the facilities, God modded technicians, etc... that common upgrade in 3051...ain't gonna happen realistically. So try picturing it in 3015, or 3049, without the facilities, with at best maybe an elite technician, and struggling to pay your bills instead of magically getting 39,000,000 cbills "from your uncle" just to complete a project to change a JR7-D into a JR7-K, a Ferro-fibrous mech worth only 3,306,375 cbills brand new.
It's just a waste of time in lore and customization rules.
(I repeated this experiment as House Kurita in 3045, and did it in the Jenner facility owned by Luthien Armor Works on the planet of Abiy Adi.
Here, they don't actually have the Jenner JR7-Ks until 3049, and I'm at it in 3045. I was able to produce one by modifying and redesigning the Jenner JR7-K. It cost me about 5 million cbills to make the changes and didn't require as high level technicians or nearly as much time (just 3 weeks). I was able to do it on the first try with only a minor issue (the design quirk "unbalanced/off balance"). Unfortunately maintaining was difficult. Within a week it went from Great/prestine (E) to average (C) after the first maintenance.
Koniving, on 05 April 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:
Huh.. MW RPG 1st edition, just learned: Armor during the star league was so highly specialized between mechs that it caused no end of trouble for technicians. The exact shape or size of the armor plate necessary might not be available, requiring some jerry rigging that would ultimately weaken it.
Spoiler
Though thin and flexible, the armor is quite heavy, making
better-protected 'Mechs slower than their lighter, less armored
cousins. The inner layer of protection, usually composed of
boron nitride impregnated with diamond monofilament, is fitted
directly around the musculature In overlapping plates, each
built to specification for the given 'Mech type and body part.
This highly-specialized design has caused no end of trouble to
Techs and field repairmen during the Succession Wars. The
exact armor components they need in a given situation may
not be available in the proper size or shape, making It necessary
to reform the component, which can cause structural
weakening.
Page: 63
To pull any of it off in the field with any chance for success, you need some kits
Spoiler
TOOL KIT (1-2/C)
The tool kit contains a variety of hand tools including
hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers, and saws. This basic
equipment is essential for any 'Mech repair task, and weighs
15 kilograms.
CUTTING KIT (2-3/C)
This kit contains oxy-acetylene cutting torches and equipment
for handling hot metal. HiTech versions substitute laser
cutting torches. The kit weights between ten and 30 kilograms.
JOINING KIT (1-3/C)
This kit contains equipment used to join
metal, and weighs between 10 and 30
kilograms. Such equipment includes arc
welders, laser welders, and, in the the
Low Tech kits, riveters.
GYRO KIT (3/R)
This kit weighs 1 metric ton and contains the structural
equipment necessary to repair the massive 'Mech gyros and
their critical bearings.
ELEC KIT (3/C)
This kit contains electronic testing and
repair equipment to handle routine jobs only.
The kit weighs from 5 to 20 kilograms. The
repair and maintenance of computers, sensors,
neurohelmets, and similar equipment
requires more advanced equipment.
SENSOR KIT (3/R)
This equipment is required for the maintenance and repair of the delicate and complex 'Mech
sensor systems. The kit weighs about 50 kilograms.
FUSION KIT (3/R)
This equipment includes the shielding and remote control
apparatus required to service and repair fusion engines. It
weighs 1000 kilograms.
Ideally, you'll want a LoaderMech or HaulerMech in tow to help with performing the repairs and replacements in the field...note there's a high chance for failure for major things such as engine replacement...but it is doable.
For the changes you originally described, however... you need one of these at least.
Spoiler
REPAIR PLATFORM (3/C)
[NOTE: If equipped with radiation shielding, the availability
code is ffU".]
As a 'Mech unit travels from place to place, it will acquire
certain useful equipment, often scavenged from abandoned or
destroyed industrial sites. One of the most common nonmilitary
items is a repair platform. This device is generally
mounted on a wheeled vehicle with a hydraulically-powered
support that lifts a wide, contained compartment 10-20 meters
into the air.
The repair platform is equipped with devices such as
welders and grippers, which allow Techs to repair damaged
'Mechs, replace portions of their armor or anatomy, and so
forth, even before the extreme heat generated by the battle
has diffused. The compartment is also proof against most
harmful radiation, thus permitting a Tech to remove or replace a
malfunctioning fusion reactor.
All 'Mechs carry tool, cutting, joining, and elec kits. They
are usually located in torso storage compartments. Internal
damage to a 'Mech's torso will probably destroy some of the
repair equipment.
The sensor, fusion and gyro kits, and the repair platforms
are only located in secure locations such as DropShips,
headquarters units, and repair and maintenance depots.
Despite what it says here about fusion kits only being in the dropships,etc... there's a field repair list of how to do an in-the-field engine replacement. Problem is if it does succeed at all, the engine's automatically cut a hex in power so your top speed goes down no matter what. You still need to have the Fusion kit delivered to you by a loader/hauler mech (anything else isn't 'delicate' enough.)
(Image to text converter seems to like changing mech to mach.)
Page 32 for the kits/etc.
So to come full circle..
Yes, you can recreate any mech in MWO in BT.
And about pulling an MWO and putting two Ultra-5s on the STs of a Warhammer...
Koniving, on 05 April 2019 - 09:18 AM, said:
Here we go.
With proper facilities, this took 5 weeks (with nothing delivered as I god-modded those, otherwise it might've been months).
Warhammer WHM-6R Bersigil Custom Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Spoiler
Level
Era
Experimental
2630-2639
Advanced
2640-3039
Standard
3040+
Extinct
2915-3035
(edit: era listings for what level the mech would be considered for the equipment I have on it; I have the year set to 3062 so this is fairly standard now.)
Tech Rating: E/D-F(F*)-D-D
Weight: 70 tons
BV: 1,221
Cost: 6,057,383 C-bills (if from a factory built this way; current 'value' is below)
Value: 4,930,545 C-bills (what I could hope to sell it for)
Source: TRO 3039 - Age of War
Movement: 4/6
Engine: 280 (std) (if I changed this, the cost would skyrocket to 12,721,383 C-bills)
Heat Sinks: 15 (single)
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 107
Armor: 160/217
Internals
Armor
Head
3
9
Center Torso
22
22
Center Torso (rear)
9
Right Torso
15
17
Right Torso (rear)
8
Left Torso
15
17
Left Torso (rear)
8
Right Arm
11
20
Left Arm
11
20
Right Leg
15
15
Left Leg
15
15
Weapons
Loc
Heat
Medium Laser
LT
3
Small Laser
LT
1
SRM 6
RT
4
Medium Laser
RT
3
Small Laser
RT
1
Ultra AC/5
RT
1
Ultra AC/5
LT
1
Ammo
Loc
Shots
SRM 6 Ammo
RT
15
Ultra AC/5 Ammo
CT
20
Stripped a bunch of equipment, slapped in two Ultra/5s and traded the MG bin for an Ultra/5 bin. Despite only 20 cassettes, I could fire this fairly continuously at standard rate (for both UAC/5s) 3.33 minutes and net approximately 100 damage
On Ultra firing mode if no jams or problems, for 1.67 minutes and net approximately 100 damage.
(I say approximately because depending on the kind of hit you do assuming everything hit, you could do as low as 70 and as high as 150...)
So the bonus mechs. Are they for MWO or MW5? I looked at the comparison rewards chart and it did not see any MW5 content other then the digital plans that caught my eye for MW5.
ORIGINAL SteelWolf, on 06 April 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:
So the bonus mechs. Are they for MWO or MW5? I looked at the comparison rewards chart and it did not see any MW5 content other then the digital plans that caught my eye for MW5.
MWO.
Chances are you could possibly find those mechs in MW5 on your own, for the ones within the time line.
Edit: Looked them up. None of those variants are within Mw5 Mercs's timeline. (Mw5 Mercs' primary story concludes in 3049... So where will you be...when the Clans invade?)
All four of the chassis however are already included in Mw5 Mercs even if these specific variants are outside of the timeline.
Going by "lore", you can mount whatever weapons you want wherever you want as long as you have the tonnage and space to mount them; money, time and facilities aside. And even guys who started the line like Weisman seem to be cool with fiddling with weight and crit slots for things, judging from HBS' work.
I am ok with customization like we see in BATTLETECH, using all era appropriate gear and with a significant amount of time to modify based on the support and facilities you have available. Remember in lore, only OmniMechs could be refitted in the field between battles and that was the main advantage they had (which MWO has nullified, since Clan BattleMechs are superior).
There's actually a single mech (literally only one) in Battletech tabletop that has a four slot setup.
Literally incorrect, since Compact Gyros exist in TT.
Quote
This said there's still reasonable (as in more realistic but still acceptable) limitations in customization versus creation that people just don't seem to realize.
It's almost like I said
Quote
money, time and facilities aside
for a reason.
Ed Steele, on 06 April 2019 - 03:00 AM, said:
Remember in lore, only OmniMechs could be refitted in the field between battles and that was the main advantage they had (which MWO has nullified, since Clan BattleMechs are superior).
Quote
money, time and facilities aside
Again, I don't recall saying it was easy or fast, just doable if you throw enough work at it.
Literally incorrect, since Compact Gyros exist in TT.
This is still correct, as the mech exists since 2510, and the specific variant continues to exist into the Dark Ages.
It is the only one that fits 3 slots (not 4) into the CT with a standard gyro.
TRC-4B (also referred to as the CHM-3 Chameleon Training Scout) A formerly common but now obscure training 'Mech, the TRC-4B was armed with one Large Laser, two Medium Lasers, four Small Lasers and two Machine Guns. With only 10 normal heat sinks this 'Mech was quite prone to overheating. As manufactured, this 'Mech is perhaps the only Level 1 official (if not canonical) design with 3 critical spaces of equipment installed in the center torso, (two Machine Guns and half a ton of ammo), in violation of the design rules released with it. Additionally, as released, a quarter ton of armor remained unallocated. BV (1.0) = 811, BV (2.0) = ?[9]
A mech in HBS BT had a similar hardpoint setup, and as such, we wound up with 4 slots in the CT...just in case if someone wanted a Chameleon.
Any Star League tech would be incredibly rare during the timeline that MW5 is set in and would almost certainly be out of reach for any minor mercenary company. If PGI did put any in the game, you sould only be able to find maybe one or two lostech items per playthrough and only from the most rare or difficult missions. And the items should be nearly irreplaceable like they are in BATTLETECH.
Any Star League tech would be incredibly rare during the timeline that MW5 is set in and would almost certainly be out of reach for any minor mercenary company. If PGI did put any in the game, you sould only be able to find maybe one or two lostech items per playthrough and only from the most rare or difficult missions. And the items should be nearly irreplaceable like they are in BATTLETECH.
Indeed.
Though originally one of them was referring to HBS Battletech shoving 4 slots in the CT with a standard engine and gyro as proof that Jordan was willing to fudge with the established rules to expand customization.
And I pointed out to the first mention of it that HBS BT did that in lieu of one specific mech that could carry (I said 4 but it was actually) 3 things in the CT, which HBS BT had a similar mech that could serve as a stand-in for that one mech.
I was countered with compact gyros as a way of pointing out that any mech could do that with 4 slots instead of only one, since compact gyros exist. The other also said compact engines exist as another way to do it with the existing normal system, as such the need for 4 slots free with a standard engine and gyro wasn't necessary.
But my point was this mech does this with a standard engine and a standard gyro, yet officially and canonically carries 2 MGs and a half ton of ammunition in the CT (3 slots) in violation of the rules, and this was the reason HBS BT did it (and to really be able to capitalize on the cold-feet mechanic in terms of the legs). See Chameleon up above.
I am ok with customization like we see in BATTLETECH, using all era appropriate gear and with a significant amount of time to modify based on the support and facilities you have available. Remember in lore, only OmniMechs could be refitted in the field between battles and that was the main advantage they had (which MWO has nullified, since Clan BattleMechs are superior).
It isn't so much that it is the only thing that could be refitted between battles, assuming you have quite a bit of time between them.
Its that Omnimechs could be refitted in the same day, sometimes in less than two hours.. where reloads and quick armor grafting/patching is the best you could hope for in a few hours for a Battlemech.
(Unless it was the Mercury Battlemech or the Right arm of the Thorn, the right arm of the Thorn if you owned additional ones preloaded with other weapons could be changed in under 4 hours and the Mercury had equipment that could be changed in hours as well, but the equipment for both of these were proprietary so it wasn't compatible with anything else going in either direction [can't throw the Thorn's arm on another mech or Mercury equipment into another mech, and can't use another mech's arm or other equipment in a Mercury] and you had to have THEIR brand of equipment made for generation of that mech... As such the Mercury is nearly extinct before the Clans even arrive as nobody has the modular equipment to fix them with since they are no longer being made.)
But if you had a week or more you could do minor refits to your mech (swapping out a couple of heatsinks and a weapon system for example) though major changes (taking out 2 PPCs, taking out MGs, removing a couple of heatsinks, swapping MG ammo with UAC/5 ammo, and installing a UAC/5 in each side torso) easily take 5+ weeks (in 3062).
The earlier you go in the timeline after the second succession war, the harder this becomes. (The same changes using Ultra/5s in 3015 for example took a couple of months and concluded with faulty weapons). As the saying goes, if it isn't broken don't fix it, and the more you tinker with something the worse it'll get. The average military isn't going to do this however because if you make it non-standard, then the standard repair stock that they have is no longer suited for it.. meaning it needs special attention, a special repair stock, a special crew, and more cost on something already forebodingly expensive.
Consider the reason why Mass Poduction weapon systems are far less expensive than highly specialized elite systems which are reserved for Aces.
Tex gets into something similar about the Timber Wolf.
The Clans had lost largely due to attrition.
Super machines of immense power and expense, of rare materials... of difficult to make, difficult to supply materials and with supplies having to come across a distance equal to 6 months of travel just to get the next shipment.
They resorted to using archaic relics like the "IIC" Battlemechs due to their poor supplies, using archaic weapons, etc.
Well all that's good to know. I was referring to the digital MW5 game VS MWO. Turns out no matter how much you spend MW5 is the same its all the addons or perks for MWO that your paying for. And since i have not played MWo in 3.5 years i don't think i'll be spending an arm and a leg for a game i wont play. Now if the mechs were included in MW5 that would be a different reply.
9
Cyrilis, on 04 April 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:
Check them out in the Battletech Discussion threads here on the MWO forum.
