37 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

Lily from animove, on 22 March 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

well I do not doubt that he does alot of damage, but he does the useless kind of damage, so that "carry" probably comes form the selective thinking of seeing "high damage" but there is good damage and bad damage.

There is no such thing as "useless damage".

And don't assume that the "high damage" that I, and others like me, do with LRMs, is not directly responsible for a large amount of Kills and KMDDs I and others like me also do.

Don't assume that I'm low tier, low skill or don't know how to play the game. I do. I'm not the best, but I do.

I keep seeing people calling LRMs useless, but how can that be when, for instance, I do 800 damage with 1-2 kills and more than that KMDDs, while somebody with direct fire does the same damage and kills? How is that superior or inferior? It's the same.

Sure, it takes him 2-3 shots, while it takes me more time.. but that's the nature of the weapon.. end result is the same.

And I often see I not only did top damage, but also have the most kills and probably KMDDs too, opposed not just my team, but the enemy team as well?

Its people that hate lurmers that have a problem with LRMs, so you try to portray EVERY LRM USER as being bad, useless, and not doing anything meaningful in the game. Typical toxic person tactic - if you can't dictate what they do, make them feel small and insignificant..

But not all of us buy it..

Kroete, on 22 March 2019 - 03:37 AM, said:

Dependin on our stats you have more kd but kmmd is not showen (so the numbers dont tell the whole story) and the rest seems nearly equal, but i dont use metamechs and play mostly lrms and never group so my stats are pure pug.

Does this say you are as bad as an official disabled lrm user or lrms used right are not as bad as you claim?

Yes, the numbers don't show the real situation.. and keep in mind that LRMs are not even meant to be kill-bringers, but suppression and battlefield control weapons.. So you can't even compare the two - yet in what I can see in the end game stats often - LRM boat did just as much - or quite often more - damage, AND kills like any other regular player.

Sure, there are players that can do amazing things with Direct fire weapons - but we're not talking about the 1%.. we're talking average players here - people that just wanna have fun playing the game.

So don't tell me my "carry" is useless and "bad damage" when on many occasions, I do better than anyone else on both teams..

That's just you being toxic.

Edited by Vellron2005, 22 March 2019 - 04:03 AM.

[Catnium]

Hi

Stop Playing assault LRM boats ya noobs
Stop wasting tonnage
Stop doing the job of medium/heavy mech
Stop standing in the back doing **** all
You are an assault
It's in the name
Push the frontline
Use that armor
Stop standing in the back like a fooking coward.
Standin in the back like a fooking cowerd Sniping or LRM'ing is not what an assault mech is supposed to do.
You are the reason you lose.

Everytime you fire a salvo of LRM's on an assault mech i will personally punch a baby spider in the nuts.


End of service announcement.

Edited by Catnium, 22 March 2019 - 04:10 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Catnium, on 22 March 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

Hi

Stop Playing assault LRM boats ya noobs
stop wasting tonnage
stop doing the job of medium/heavy mech
your an assault
its in the name
Use that armor

Hi.

Stop assuming that being an assault and having lots of armor means a damn thing in this game.

It doesn't.

As long as a single light can take out an assault or even a lance of them, armor is useless.

It's not about armor.

It's about hitting without getting hit.

Stop being deluded into thinking MWO is anything like the previous MW/BT/TT installments.

It's not.

Edited by Vellron2005, 22 March 2019 - 04:06 AM.

[Ilfi]

I'm a little bitter about MRMs and SRMs being influenced by AMS, mostly because from a game balance standpoint there needs to be more reward for using these inaccurate dumbfire weapons. Otherwise, pretty happy with how things have panned out and enjoying the death throes of clueless LRM Assaults.

[Kroete]

Vellron2005, on 22 March 2019 - 03:58 AM, said:

Yes, the numbers don't show the real situation.. ...
That's just you being toxic.

I qouted and answered to lilly, not to you ...
Also the content of the qoute you used should have showen that to you ...
Maybe read, chill and think before you post?

[Lily from animove]

Kroete, on 22 March 2019 - 03:37 AM, said:

Dependin on our stats you have more kd but kmmd is not showen (so the numbers dont tell the whole story) and the rest seems nearly equal, but i dont use metamechs and play mostly lrms and never group so my stats are pure pug.

Does this say you are as bad as an official disabled lrm user or lrms used right are not as bad as you claim?

KMMD is the least saying stat, before the AMS changes you could just take an streak boat, put like 2 volleys of srm36 in any mech and it is just scratched all over the place, and when someone else kills it you get the KMDD, But efficiently killing is far from that. Spread damage is bad damage, and with spread damage you can get a lot of KMDD's but efficiently not be properly involved in that kill. Quickly core killing a mech (best from behind) is an extremely efficient way to do so. But when a rather useless lurmer put just 80 missiles on that mech he still gets that KMDD even if it didn't helped killing that mech. I mean go to the testing ground and shoot lrm's on an atlas and tell me how much lrms you had to shoot and how much damage that made (well ok we can't see that). lrm's are ****, streaks are **** (even if they are now supposed to go for more core components. And lrms are bad, have you seen them used in any of the championships?
just look at this

72damage shot in streaks, and the CT barely took damage, if you wanna farm KMDD's gets streaks fart 2 or 3 volleys at a mech and hope someone else finishes it. Streaks are just bad srm's because srm's kill efficiently (if you can aim) but you risk not getting the KMMD if someone else went for the core and did a bit more damage than you.

The more important example is some of the old contests we had where score made an important part and KMDD's and Solokills as well. In those it was important to nto efficiently kill a mech, instead it was about getting big damage numbers. So going for Side torso was a important thing, because blowing off the arm as well helped a lot in getting damage since the arm blown off counted as damage done as well. and in nearly all cases was such a move a guaranteed KMDD.


These events had special formulas where it was not so heavily based on just crappy damage, and you don't get into those top ranks if you are a derpling. I really wish we had more of these tournaments again. Especially the chassis challanges as they also honor people not bringing just the meta machines.
So no I am surely not like those "official disabled lrm users" because neither today nor back then did any of the lurmers made it into those higher ranks. LRM's and their spread damage is simply too bad for this even if they would net you higher damage numbers.
https://mwomercs.com...?t=201607medium
https://mwomercs.com...t=201410chassis
https://mwomercs.com...t=201410faction

[Prototelis]

Vellron2005, on 22 March 2019 - 04:06 AM, said:

Hi.

Stop assuming that being an assault and having lots of armor means a damn thing in this game.

It doesn't.

As long as a single light can take out an assault or even a lance of them, armor is useless.

It's not about armor.

It's about hitting without getting hit.

Stop being deluded into thinking MWO is anything like the previous MW/BT/TT installments.

It's not.

Statistically more difficult to trade against a larger number of people than your team is presenting. Basic math.

Its about how health pooling is a requirement to win games and not sand bagging your team for bigger numbers.

[Luminis]

Prototelis, on 22 March 2019 - 04:56 AM, said:

Its about how health pooling is a requirement to win games and not sand bagging your team for bigger numbers.

But it's just so convenient if someone else has to stick out their head for you.

Honestly, did people never stop to ask themselves why other PvP games don't incorporate long range, lock-on homing IDF weapons with high DPS?

[Kroete]

Luminis, on 22 March 2019 - 05:36 AM, said:

But it's just so convenient if someone else has to stick out their head for you.

Honestly, did people never stop to ask themselves why other PvP games don't incorporate long range, lock-on homing IDF weapons with high DPS?

Because most players have enough to deal with only 2 dimensional weapons in a 3d game.
If you look at the average players awarness,
you know why its too much for lots of people to look and think in all 3 dimensions.
Direct fire is a lot easier to use and find cover for,
indirect weapons are just too hard for lots of people to deal with.

Lily from animove, on 22 March 2019 - 04:48 AM, said:

KMMD is the least saying stat ...

If you have lots of kills but a lot less wins, you are vulturing,
if you have lots of damage, but less kills you are damagepadding,
if you have lots of wins, you are farming small groups with big premades in groupplay
.....

The stats we have dont tell much, but with the stats you have, you should not be cucky.

Ballistics and lasers are better and do better damage and you use them and you are still not able to get much better stats then a lrm user?
How can you dare to statshame others (even if vellron is a little special) with your performance beeing on nearly the same level then a drugged and disabled man who still have problems after a stroke (me)?

Edited by Kroete, 22 March 2019 - 06:03 AM.

[Lily from animove]

you only did spread damage and yes there is useless damage, if I do like 800 damage you can bet I soloed like 3 mechs at least and KMDD some more. just go to the testing ground and see in the current heavy and assault environment how long you need to kill an assault with lrm's. fats and efficient killing is what takes opponent DPS down, and massively helps the team, scratching every sections has nearly no use. I once saw an MDD shooting an Timberwolf, he had 6xssrm6, cryworthy sight, cryworthy, the amount of damage needed to disable a mech is far from efficient.

LRM's are a bad system and even if you are a good player you wont bring this system past it capabilities, that is the nature or lrm's as a System, and so even if you have good skills you will play badly compared to what you alternately could do in a proper laodout.

and no taking more time is not the same result, because you give the opponent more time to shoot back. bringing that up just shows that you cannot really understand why lrm's are bad.

I doubt you did better, you mostlikely did more damage, but better is the one who efficiently takes out an opponent as fast as possible. More dmg =/= carry. and KMDD is damage based done on akilled mech, yet =/= relevant damage to kill the mech. Scratching 200 damage across all components vs killing it in ct with 100damage gives the 200dmg guy the KMDD yet is was not really relevant in killing the mech, aka useless damage, as it had no significant impact on the result: creating a dead mech. And that is in terms of winning the match useless damage. Otherwise tell me which use does it have to put 20 damage on a armor 40 arm when that mech dies of CT loss or being legged. How did that damage helped to kill the mech? it didn't, it only helped to give more payout on the player that did that damage.

If the tasks is to maw your 100m² sized lawn and you maw 20m² of it and 90m² of your neighbours, yet your buddy mowed 80m² of your lawn, you did not the major job just because you mowed 110m² of any lawn. You still did only /5 of the relevant work despite "working more". And no you did also not carry that works task. So it has nothing to do with toxic talk, it is basic logic of understanding what MWO requires to efficiently win matches. And sadly LRM's are constantly mawing another ones lawn as well, thats the nature of their bad mechanic. If that example can't make you understand it, then i don't know what. But truly good players (by understanding good)know this. Pulling those requirements off, is another task of skill, as accurate aim and such is another skillset needed. BUT LRM's deny you even to utilise that skill as their aim is just bad by their given mechanic. The only movie symbolic quote I have for lrms is "farting in ones general direction", because more their mechanic doesn't actually do.

If you are having fun lrm'ing in MWO, that's fine, do that and have fun, that's the true core purpose any pc game should have. But lets not falsely conclude amazing looking numbers mean having performed amazing. Sadly we cannot record a game the way to shop everyone which damage happened where, because then we could analytically show many people which number of damages they did yet were irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

[Lily from animove]

Catnium, on 22 March 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

You are an assault
It's in the name
LRM'ing is not what an assault mech is supposed .

does that mean the lore hat some diarrhea http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Viking_IIC

[Lotspeech]

Kroete, on 22 March 2019 - 05:48 AM, said:

If you have lots of kills but a lot less wins, you are vulturing,
if you have lots of damage, but less kills you are damagepadding,
if you have lots of wins, you are farming small groups with big premades in groupplay

So, what if a player has all three?? What new way will you come up to discount there hard work then?

[Kroete]

Lily from animove, on 22 March 2019 - 05:56 AM, said:

LRM's are a bad system and even if you are a good player you wont bring this system past it capabilities, that is the nature or lrm's as a System, and so even if you have good skills you will play badly compared to what you alternately could do in a proper laodout.

Its still enough to get nearly the same numbers then you.

We have nearly the same wl and ms, but you do more kills and i die more often.
Seems iam to brave and you are hiding and vulturing?
Or is it more about iam more opening enemys staying in the front and you are more safing the kill for the team from behind , if we have nearly the same wl this would also match?
Cant tell without kmmd ...

kamichiwa343, on 22 March 2019 - 06:09 AM, said:

So, what if a player has all three?? What new way will you come up to discount there hard work then?

Its just an example that the stats we have dont tell much.
Bu tif you have all three and your stats are not padded by groupplay you are on the right side of the bell.

Edited by Kroete, 22 March 2019 - 06:13 AM.

[Pain G0D]

I honestly cannot tell if Lurms are buffed or nerfed in this patch . If they did not mention the arc difference I probably would not have noticed .

Edited by Pain G0D, 22 March 2019 - 06:14 AM.

[Luminis]

Kroete, on 22 March 2019 - 05:48 AM, said:

Because most players have enough to deal with only 2 dimensional weapons in a 3d game.

Plenty of PvP games use verticality, and to a much greater extend than MWO. Besides, MWO is the one game I know that is, by far, the one that accommodates for low-skill players the most.

The reason you don't see such weapons implemented more often is because weapons that promote passive, parasitic gameplay run contrary to the idea of a PvP shooter.

[Mystere]

Luminis, on 22 March 2019 - 02:17 AM, said:

You said that like it was a bad thing, somehow?

Well, if the player numbers happen to tank because of it^(*), then it is a bad thing. Do you disagree?

(*) Not that I know whether it would or would not.

Lily from animove, on 22 March 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

Surely MWO should offer playstyles for everyone, but being a lurmer is just being stuck in a lower skill range of the MWO playerbase.

That is their choice to make, for whatever reason they may have. It's not as if playing MWO has any meaning in life other than entertainment.

Or does it?

Edited by Mystere, 22 March 2019 - 09:24 AM.

[JediPanther]

Meh. My cats can still fire lrms and have mls. That's all they need to do. I've killed plenty with just the mls hardly firing the lrms when matches skip the scout-snipe phrase of battle or move though those phases faster than normal. Damage is damage. You either do more than the enemy or aim for their open armor and disarm them letting someone else finish them. Just because a mech is usually associated with a particular weapon doesn't mean that mech will always have or use that weapon. It what makes my catapults as great as an assault in a brawl because people underestimate it through lrm and xl association.

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 22 March 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Well, if the player numbers happen to tank because of it^(*), then it is a bad thing. Do you disagree?

(*) Not that I know whether it would or would not.




That is their choice to make, for whatever reason they may have. It's not as if playing MWO has any meaning in life other than entertainment.

Or does it?

It shouldn't but I am pretty sure for some it's not just entertainment. But people shouldn't try to convince others that their horse cart is outperforming a regular nascar in a nascar race. That's just not true. It's good that low skilled players have a not so skill related but fun option throwing damage at each other. But just because I have fun riding my bicycle doesn't makes me wanna tell the world it's outperforming a regular car on a speedway just because I once rode the speedway faster than them when they had a traffic jam. That are just things of strange conclusions some come up with.