190 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Kalimaster, on 29 March 2019 - 10:52 AM, said:

Can we please stop with all the Nerfs and start doing some good buffs.

Agreed, let's start with the HGR, make it about 4 times more durable than it currently is.

[HammerMaster]

Dimento Graven, on 29 March 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

Agreed, let's start with the HGR, make it about 4 times more durable than it currently is.

1.5
If we're being magnanimous.

Edited by HammerMaster, 29 March 2019 - 12:10 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

HammerMaster, on 29 March 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

1.5

It has to be 4 times. With all the other nerfs the gauss in general continues to suffer, the HGR is that much more problematic with the overly problematic fragility.

Not asking for more damage, speed, faster reloads, longer range, increased crit power, removal or any change in the charge up cycle.

But the fact that it's so heavy and so large, reduces its usability, significantly, that plus its placement limitations has all added up to a total cumulative effect that pretty much guarantees the SECOND a side torso is opened up, the HG is going to explode, period.

Considering all the draw backs associated with it, it's time to significantly revamp some aspect of the weapon (specifically the HGR) to balance it with the rest of the ballistics/PPCs in the game.

[K O Z A K]

Clan gauss doesn't fare much better, the second armour is open or you go to 101% heat cgauss goes off like popcorn

[Grus]

Well, direct fire is still viable...

[Dimento Graven]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

Clan gauss doesn't fare much better, the second armour is open or you go to 101% heat cgauss goes off like popcorn

The only issue I have with being 'pro' Clan gauss change is the fact that it's still lighter and smaller than the IS version (plus all the FREE C.A.S.E. clan 'mechs enjoy) making any changes to the clan gauss might make it significantly more OP.

Other than changing reverting back to 90% destruction chance, matching the IS, I can't see I'd do anything else to the Clan gauss.

[HammerMaster]

Clan doesn't need more.
The HGR....maybe.

[K O Z A K]

Dimento Graven, on 29 March 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

The only issue I have with being 'pro' Clan gauss change is the fact that it's still lighter and smaller than the IS version (plus all the FREE C.A.S.E. clan 'mechs enjoy) making any changes to the clan gauss might make it significantly more OP.

Other than changing reverting back to 90% destruction chance, matching the IS, I can't see I'd do anything else to the Clan gauss.

yeah, I really don't get why clan and IS gauss weigh different, it really shouldn't

but it blowing up the second someone looks wrong at it or you putting the thermostat in the cockpit up a few degrees seems like a bad way to balance

heavy gauss same thing, it's so vulnerable to machine guns its ridiculous

[HammerMaster]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

yeah, I really don't get why clan and IS gauss weigh different, it really shouldn't

but it blowing up the second someone looks wrong at it or you putting the thermostat in the cockpit up a few degrees seems like a bad way to balance

heavy gauss same thing, it's so vulnerable to machine guns its ridiculous

Um BattleTech source.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle
Specifically:
"The Clans never lost the technology, and continued to refine the Star League-era weapon. Although the Clan Gauss Rifle is similar in performance and operation to its Inner Sphere counterpart, it is 20% lighter and somewhat more compact."

Edited by HammerMaster, 29 March 2019 - 12:55 PM.

[K O Z A K]

gameplay > lore

[HammerMaster]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

gameplay > lore

In your world.
Not everyone's world.
Take the hint.
Keep in mind:
I DON'T EVEN LIKE CLANS!
Some people want nerfs due to disliking.

Edited by HammerMaster, 29 March 2019 - 01:12 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

gameplay > lore

True that. After all, if LORE ruled the day, than F'it... There'd be no weapon specific hard points for Battlemechs. Battlemechs could load ANY weapon it had the space/weight available to load.

And wouldn't that be a peachy thing? Atlas's running 400 engines with every other slot on the 'mech (including legs) loaded with MG's, etc., etc., add other ridiculous builds possible using lore rules...

EDIT:

If LORE ruled the day, then we'd have <gasp> an active HEAT AFFECTS table that would encourage players to limit how often they alpha'd their weapons...

If LORE ruled the day, we'd have half the armor and ammo per ton as we do now...

etc.

etc.

ad various changes in game play PGI implemented to make the game more balanced and/or had to compromise because programming it was too hard for their limited skill pool and resources.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 March 2019 - 01:03 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Dimento Graven, on 29 March 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

True that. After all, if LORE ruled the day, than F'it... There'd be no weapon specific hard points for Battlemechs. Battlemechs could load ANY weapon it had the space/weight available to load.

And wouldn't that be a peachy thing? Atlas's running 400 engines with every other slot on the 'mech (including legs) loaded with MG's, etc., etc., add other ridiculous builds possible using lore rules...

EDIT:

If LORE ruled the day, then we'd have <gasp> an active HEAT AFFECTS table that would encourage players to limit how often they alpha'd their weapons...

If LORE ruled the day, we'd have half the armor and ammo per ton as we do now...

etc.

etc.

ad various changes in game play PGI implemented to make the game more balanced and/or had to compromise because programming it was too hard for their limited skill pool and resources.

Everytime PGI did their own homebew bs and polluted the IP we suffered.
Eg.
Jesus Box ECM
Free C3.
Pinpoint Convergence.
Clan vs IS balance.
Any more?

Edited by HammerMaster, 29 March 2019 - 01:06 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

HammerMaster, on 29 March 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

Everytime PGI did their own homebew bs and polluted the IP we suffered.
Eg.
Jesus Box ECM
Free C3.
Pinpoint Convergence.
Clan vs IS balance.
Any more?

No opinion on ECM or C3, I think their overall affects as is is flavorful and wouldn't be be able to imagine a better way given PGI's limited skills/resrouces.

Pinpoint convergence... Maybe a few things could be done, keep in mind though the RNGesus nature of the lore game was due to trying to make a game that could easily be played in one afternoon, versus a single round taking potentially an hour as everyone breaks out rulers, LOS strings, etc., etc. to figure out who hit what and where.

IS vs. Clan balance, again, the nature of this engine and the rest of the match making code: The real balance between IS and Clan, in lore was the IS's greater numbers vs. the Clan's superior tech. The MM couldn't handle a 10v12 configuration for CW, and leaving 12v12 with mix IS/clan drops in quick play without accommodating the tech edge of clan 'mechs would have made quickplay horribly unfun.

We wanted a thoroughbred, but the committee designing this horse ended up giving us a camel instead.

That's the nature of compromise.

[Tesunie]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

Clan gauss doesn't fare much better, the second armour is open or you go to 101% heat cgauss goes off like popcorn

Didn't they remove heat damage having the chance of dealing crits? I do know they removed heat damage from affecting the head. Can't tell you how many times I hit 101%, and then died from head damage while sitting under 100%...

But yeah, I believe heat doesn't deal critical damage for much the same reasons. (But I could be wrong. I've also never noticed heat taking out weapons on myself.)

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

gameplay > lore

The only aspect of lore that basically has to be followed would be tonnage of equipment and crit slot consumption. Everything else is subject to change (though I would like for game mechanics to take inspiration from lore when and where possible, within reason).

Edit: Fixed without with within... Within reason...

Edited by Tesunie, 29 March 2019 - 09:19 PM.

[K O Z A K]

pinpoint convergence is really a matter of opinion, most people prefer it

clan vs IS balance? we suffered because PGI created clan vs IS balance? so clans should be OP AF as per lore?

[HammerMaster]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

pinpoint convergence is really a matter of opinion, most people prefer it

clan vs IS balance? we suffered because PGI created clan vs IS balance? so clans should be OP AF as per lore?

A
B
S
O
L
U
T
E
L
Y
.
But PGI can't do 5v8 so they did this band aid.

[K O Z A K]

Tesunie, on 29 March 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

Didn't they remove heat damage having the chance of dealing crits? I do know they removed heat damage from affecting the head. Can't tell you how many times I hit 101%, and then died from head damage while sitting under 100%...

But yeah, I believe heat doesn't deal critical damage for much the same reasons. (But I could be wrong. I've also never noticed heat taking out weapons on myself.)

it's still in, there is no more self headshots, but I lose rifles on 100% fresh dual gauss mk2s and ngyrs all the time due to hitting just barely above heat threshold

[Tesunie]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

pinpoint convergence... most people prefer it

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, you probably are making a generalize opinion based statement here based off your own opinion, rather than what may or may not be the general consensus.

I can say, back in the days when we did have delayed convergence, it was a lot of fun and damage was more likely to spread out across a target (leading to additional survival times). Delayed convergence was only removed for lag compensation tools (otherwise known as HSR). Lag shield was the only issue at the time (that I can recall).

I'm gonna make the general assumption that, if we could have delayed convergence AND a reasonable lag compensater (like HSR), it possibly would be more preferred to the current pin point instant convergence.

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2019 - 01:22 PM, said:

it's still in, there is no more self headshots, but I lose rifles on 100% fresh dual gauss mk2s and ngyrs all the time due to hitting just barely above heat threshold

As I rarely use Gauss (I am really bad with them), I'm going to just take your word on this at the moment.
(I could have sworn they removed it...)

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 29 March 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, you probably are making a generalize opinion based statement here based off your own opinion, rather than what may or may not be the general consensus.

Pretty much everyone playing who is capable of aiming for themselves, is for some form of pin point convergence.

Those who are bad at aiming are the ones who, generally, are the loudest complainers against pin point.

Quote

As I rarely use Gauss (I am really bad with them), I'm going to just take your word on this at the moment.
(I could have sworn they removed it...)

Those of us that are pretty good with gauss, even in spite of all that PGI has done to apparently try and eliminate them from the game (so that the majority of potatoes would have less to cry about) know that the gauss has issues that need to be addressed.

For a weapon of its size, weight, and multiple firing limitations, its 'coolness' and 'range' really don't compensate nor balance it against other ballistics which have as much (if not more) range, and SIGNIFICANTLY higher DPS and DPS/T.