65 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

BrunoSSace, on 27 March 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

Ams is really strong atm. If missile are annoying you bring Ams. If they really annoying you, bring dual Ams. If you want to shut down all missile on the field, bring 3 or more.
Or just use ecm or stealth armor. LRM are not the problem, they can be shut down so easy.

What do i do for the LRM boats on MY team .. i dont like being bait.

[Shadowomega1]

Racerxintegra2k, on 27 March 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

omfg the LRMs ... i played 3 matches today and it was all i could stomach. Half my team was ONLY lrms way in the back shouting to hold locks while we were getting wrecked and they stood back there lobbing away. 4xlrm20's in a maddog .. 4x15's in sunspiders no back up weapons. *throws up* Nice patch Christ.

Racerxintegra2k, on 27 March 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

I said it pre-patch and post patch ... the players that were LRM'ing IDF before are still going to do that. This mechanic change wont change that fact.

To answer your question i actively train new members in my unit and regularly offer advice (to pugs) and call drops when there isn't a better caller on the team. I believe me trying to help constantly is why i get salty/toxic from time to time a lot of people just cant handle friendly advice.

To many of the players are mental rejects that need to be admitted to a psychological ward to see why they lack critical brain functions, and hopefully find a way to restore these deactive functions.

[Lykaon]

Hazeclaw, on 27 March 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

Seriously stop.

IDF lrms got nerfed, DF lrms got buffed

overall IDF is still the same bs mechanic it was, you can still hide behind hills and shoot enemies that are fighting your teammates, it just isn't quite as effective now, and ECM and AMS actually do stuff. But oh joy now you have the option to go direct and do more

sorry to all the "support, hold locks" guys your damage buttons got hurt a little, you can still do it same as before, just now if people use the specific counters (by making their mechs less effective against direct fire mechs) you actually have to look at what you're doing and look for other targets, not just point circle in general direction of any red box and erase mechs boasting high damage at the end of the drop

team based drops with narc/lrm combos are as ridiculous as they ever were

I took out my mini Lurmer (LRM30 cougar w/ ecm) for a spin to see how these changes work.

IDF was mostly useless with locks outside half the LRM's range being about a 50/50 lock to drop ratio. ECM presence and radar dep. making IDF spotty and very unreliable.

IDF becomes reliable once your team mates are in close quarters but,if they are in close quarters this means either your team is over whelming them or they are over whelming you so...it's a bit to late to start contributing.

Direct fire is a cruel joke. Why bother using a weapon that has a pile of handicaps a mile high vs a typical enemy target trading your 8-10 out of 30 (what makes it through AMS screens) diffused damage against 30+ pinpoint alpha strikes moving at the speed of light.

If you think polishing a **** to be slightly shinier than a typical **** is a buff then more power to ya.

Team based drops would likely be even more effective if they opted to use actually effective weapons over LRMs that dispite NARC are still hampered by AMS while a gauss rifle is not.

Edited by Lykaon, 27 March 2019 - 11:16 PM.

[GuardDogg]

I have noticed a huge increase LRM usage since after the patch. Specially on assult mechs. And the builds are LRM crazy than before. The air is like a light show with AMS, AMS lasers, and other weapons. The next day I started using Stealth builds with AMS addiction (for team mates and myself), I have not experienced LRMs as much anymore (unless narced, tagged, or ecm damaged). Their is a lot of disadvantages using stealth assaults. But I am getting used to it. Stealth lights is like flying a F-22, or F-35, or some other stealth Aircraft. Stealth Assaults is like piloting a submarine with a blind fold on. You can not see (Red), but relying on seismic. Team mates will call out targets, and your like "Ah okay" where is that? So use heat vision, but no information. But saying if you want to get rid of that LRM craziness. Try use stealth and with AMS, you will not get LRM-ed. Just a thought. But Battletech was never like LRM boaters. It was hand to hand combat, and the odd LRM guy.

Edited by GuardDogg, 27 March 2019 - 11:36 PM.

[Bishop Six]

GuardDogg, on 27 March 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

I have noticed a huge increase LRM usage since after the patch. Specially on assult mechs. And the builds are LRM crazy than before. The air is like a light show with AMS, AMS lasers, and other weapons. The next day I started using Stealth builds with AMS addiction (for team mates and myself), I have not experienced LRMs as much anymore (unless narced, tagged, or ecm damaged). Their is a lot of disadvantages using stealth assaults. But I am getting used to it. Stealth lights is like flying a F-22, or F-35, or some other stealth Aircraft. Stealth Assaults is like piloting a submarine with a blind fold on. You can not see (Red), but relying on seismic. Team mates will call out targets, and your like "Ah okay" where is that? So use heat vision, but no information. But saying if you want to get rid of that LRM craziness. Try use stealth and with AMS, you will not get LRM-ed. Just a thought. But Battletech was never like LRM boaters. It was hand to hand combat, and the odd LRM guy.

I am testing Stealth on Assaults as defense weapon only. When i get "incuming missile" i activate stealth, take another position and deactivate it again. Good thing is that enemie's lock is gone immediately, bad thing is you have to give up some space/tonnage for it.

But i think there could be several chassis where this is a good option.

[Vellron2005]

To all the people saying the "LRMpocalipse patch" was a buff, and not a nerf - you are wrong, and here's why:

Yes, IDF was nerfed and DF was buffed.. The problem is that most lurmers play IDF LRMs - so, most of us got NERFED, not buffed.

And most IDF Lurmers aren't going to become DF lurmers, especially not over night, just cose' we got nerfed.. If we wanted to play DF missiles, we would play MRM or ATM..

So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor.

Congrats.

[Kroete]

Lykaon, on 27 March 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

Direct fire is a cruel joke. Why bother using a weapon that has a pile of handicaps a mile high vs a typical enemy target trading your 8-10 out of 30 (what makes it through AMS screens) diffused damage against 30+ pinpoint alpha strikes moving at the speed of light.

Vellron2005, on 28 March 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor.

Congrats.

And you need to break los to do damage on some maps,
direct use will hit terrain if there are some slopes
and there are more slopes then tunnels over all maps ...

Worst is polar, where i now need to prevent los to hit the enemy pookers on the other side of the ridge.

Edited by Kroete, 28 March 2019 - 02:53 AM.

[General Solo]

Athom83, on 27 March 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

IKR? I've seen more NARCs on more mechs in the past week than I've seen in the past year. Before you only saw the occasional NARC Raven during an event or something, but I've seen NARC Ravens, NARC Wolverines, Hellbringers and Summoners bringing a NARC, and even the occasional LRM assault that actually uses a redundant missile hardpoint FOR A NARC! Like, you just flat out didn't see that kind of stuff before.

If half your team is lock-on missiles, narc would be a fine addition that can win games in such a situation.
A real force multipler

People are adapting, very Darwinesque.

Racerxintegra2k, on 27 March 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

I said it pre-patch and post patch ... the players that were LRM'ing IDF before are still going to do that.....................

Yeah true, but now most are doing it badly............the skillfull Lermers are still skillfull Lermers

[OldSchoolCav]

Vellron2005, on 28 March 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

To all the people saying the "LRMpocalipse patch" was a buff, and not a nerf - you are wrong, and here's why:

Yes, IDF was nerfed and DF was buffed.. The problem is that most lurmers play IDF LRMs - so, most of us got NERFED, not buffed.

And most IDF Lurmers aren't going to become DF lurmers, especially not over night, just cose' we got nerfed.. If we wanted to play DF missiles, we would play MRM or ATM..

So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor.

Congrats.

But I didn't want you to have more effective LRM's - I wanted to have an option to use an effective weapon myself, which means fighting from 300-400m and using direct fire. I don't care if you were nerfed - the weapon is definitely more effective now. Learn to play it.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

OZHomerOZ, on 28 March 2019 - 02:57 AM, said:

If half your team is lock-on missiles, narc would be a fine addition that can win games in such a situation.
A real force multipler

NARC adds no benefit to targeting for IDF. While it does broadcast the targets position, you are still limited by the IDF target lock nerf. I've seen multiple occasions where NARC'd mechs disappeared all together once they got under ECM cover. The only buff that has been applied is to LOS targeting. But with the missile spread nerf and the missile health nerf, it isn't worth the time exposed, waiting for a lock that may never come, only to see half the volley destroyed straight out of the launch tubes. There is no benefit to bringing LRMs into the game anymore as they do little to no damage, even with an alpha strike. And if the target has two or three AMS systems? It will eat up a LRM80 alpha and never touch the target.

[K O Z A K]

Vellron2005, on 28 March 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

To all the people saying the "LRMpocalipse patch" was a buff, and not a nerf - you are wrong, and here's why:

Yes, IDF was nerfed and DF was buffed.. The problem is that most lurmers play IDF LRMs - so, most of us got NERFED, not buffed.

And most IDF Lurmers aren't going to become DF lurmers, especially not over night, just cose' we got nerfed.. If we wanted to play DF missiles, we would play MRM or ATM..

So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor.

Congrats.

So...IDF got nerfed, DF got buffed...and thats why we will see more people not sharing armour? Yeah....logic seems legit

Nobody wanted more effective LRMs other than you and like 2 more people, on the flipside a lot of people wanted less players using them as shields and targeting systems. This patch has accomplished that, all the while not making lrms useless, in fact making them more fun to play for many people with the DF mechanic

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 06:36 AM, said:

So...IDF got nerfed, DF got buffed...and thats why we will see more people not sharing armour? Yeah....logic seems legit

Nobody wanted more effective LRMs other than you and like 2 more people, on the flipside a lot of people wanted less players using them as shields and targeting systems. This patch has accomplished that, all the while not making lrms useless, in fact making them more fun to play for many people with the DF mechanic

Had they left the missile health and missile spread alone, I would agree with you. But since the missiles are now as fragile as eggs and a small concentration of AMS renders them completely ineffective, I have to disagree. There is no benefit for any player to hang his butt out in the wind, pointing at a target, WAITING for a missile lock. All the while being chewed to pieces by DF ballistic and energy weapons that have 5x rate of fire. Then IF the lock is acquired, seeing half the volley shot down as soon as it exits the launch tubes.

I've watched far too many LRM heavy mechs get cored in a matter of seconds, waiting for that precious target lock. Even with full sensor quirks, BAP and other aids, it still takes too long. The have rendered lock on weapons irrelevant with this patch.

[K O Z A K]

Skrapiron, on 28 March 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

Had they left the missile health and missile spread alone, I would agree with you. But since the missiles are now as fragile as eggs and a small concentration of AMS renders them completely ineffective, I have to disagree. There is no benefit for any player to hang his butt out in the wind, pointing at a target, WAITING for a missile lock. All the while being chewed to pieces by DF ballistic and energy weapons that have 5x rate of fire. Then IF the lock is acquired, seeing half the volley shot down as soon as it exits the launch tubes.

I've watched far too many LRM heavy mechs get cored in a matter of seconds, waiting for that precious target lock. Even with full sensor quirks, BAP and other aids, it still takes too long. The have rendered lock on weapons irrelevant with this patch.

But its not a purely DF weapon. You can still do a lot of work with IDF if you pick your targets correctly, especially if you carry narc or have a narc teammate. Multiple lrm boats still stack damage like crazy and overwhelm ams mechs. You're still launching most of your missiles IDF, as you're looking for DF opportunities. Before there was no reason to look for DF at all. You could essentially sit in the same spot the entire drop, just point circle towards red boxes and press the damage button. Now you need to move a lot more and pick your fights, same as other playstyles like brawling. The gameplay is much more engaging.

[Wolfos31]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 06:53 AM, said:

But its not a purely DF weapon. You can still do a lot of work with IDF if you pick your targets correctly, especially if you carry narc or have a narc teammate. Multiple lrm boats still stack damage like crazy and overwhelm ams mechs. You're still launching most of your missiles IDF, as you're looking for DF opportunities. Before there was no reason to look for DF at all. You could essentially sit in the same spot the entire drop, just point circle towards red boxes and press the damage button. Now you need to move a lot more and pick your fights, same as other playstyles like brawling. The gameplay is much more engaging.

Honestly, good LRM pilots did that all the time anyway. I have a Mad Dog and an Archer that I play as LRM boats with Tag and laser backup. LRM 30 on my Archer and 40 on my Mad Dog. I NEVER sat still, because a stationary target is a dead one. The right range for LRMs is 300-500m. 500+ gives the enemy too much time to find cover. Sub 300 gives them the opportunity to rush you and get in minimum range. I moved with the team sticking with DF support mechs, I also was happy to share armor.

I should also note that I have a spreadsheet where I track my stats for matches, how I died, if I won or lost, kills and deaths. Etc. I haven't died to LRMs in any of the last 200 matches. Not. One. Time. Yet with my Mad Dog I've had many kills, including a fantastic 1000+ damage 6 kill match, but it's rare I have a match with 0 kills in it This is only one player's experience. But I think most people using LRMs have always treated them incorrectly. You're not a fire support turret at the back. You should be a mobile firing platform, those missile tracers shout your position to the entire enemy team and you do not want a light stabbing you in the butt.

This experience by the way has been both before and after the most recent patch.

[Grus]

3ams kitfox, lots of ammo... profit.

[Chados]

Racerxintegra2k, on 27 March 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

That's exactly what i was saying. Every match at least a lance of people doing massive IDF lrms and nothing else. How do you do 179 dmg with 4x LRM 20's !@#$@!

That’s because the AMS is real now. I watched a single Nova S wiping out 30-round indirect salvos from dual ALRM15 last night. I was in a Catapult. In the same match, I killed that Nova when I managed to close to 260 meters and fired direct+secondaries. In the process I had snuck around a hill and got a sight lock on him at 450m. I was able to hit him. I also had to drop behind the hill when one of his buddies started hosing me with RACs and the resulting indirect salvo went high and got eaten in flight. I suspect that the shorter trajectory and flight time have something to do with sight locks working way better, and the direct fire buffs plus Artemis are pretty nasty up close. The moral of this story is (1) boating LRMs now is a venial sin, and (2) hiding behind rocks and not marching to the sound of the dakka may be a mortal sin. Tactical LRMs are valid (but not as strong as other weapons), indirect spamfire generally is invalid, and missile health needs a buff.

[Weeny Machine]

Vellron2005, on 28 March 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

To all the people saying the "LRMpocalipse patch" was a buff, and not a nerf - you are wrong, and here's why: Yes, IDF was nerfed and DF was buffed.. The problem is that most lurmers play IDF LRMs - so, most of us got NERFED, not buffed. And most IDF Lurmers aren't going to become DF lurmers, especially not over night, just cose' we got nerfed.. If we wanted to play DF missiles, we would play MRM or ATM.. So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor. Congrats.

And exactly this is the problem: Indirect fire

It pisses people off that potatoes which get caught out of position get help or that clever flanking gets punished by a lurmer sitting half a map away with tons of obstacles between it and its target. It makes for static gameplay as well

Secondly, I absolutely HATE it to have missile assaults sitting in the back not sharing armour or doing anything.


Also for the folk: Missiles were direct firing missiles in Battletech and sucked royally fired indirectly and still needed a dedictaed spotter or a C3 system.

In my book the direct fire part should be improved and the indirect fire part as well UNDER THE CONDITION that indirect fire is only accessible via TAG or NARC etc

Edited by Bush Hopper, 28 March 2019 - 07:44 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Vellron2005, on 28 March 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

To all the people saying the "LRMpocalipse patch" was a buff, and not a nerf - you are wrong, and here's why:

Yes, IDF was nerfed and DF was buffed.. The problem is that most lurmers play IDF LRMs - so, most of us got NERFED, not buffed.

And most IDF Lurmers aren't going to become DF lurmers, especially not over night, just cose' we got nerfed.. If we wanted to play DF missiles, we would play MRM or ATM..

So guess what? Yall' wanted more effective LRMs? You got less effecitve LRMs, more second liners and people not sharing armor.

Congrats.

"we" wanted for players to not disproportionately benefit from leeching off of there teammates being in harms way. You can keep crying how much of a support role you are playing, but for you to get your lock someone is taking damage.


ps: I played 2 matches in a Nova Cat last night. First was 1100dmg with 4 kmdd's the 2nd was 1400 dmg 6 kmdd's .. hell of a LRM nerf

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 28 March 2019 - 09:07 AM.

[Mystere]

OldSchoolCav, on 28 March 2019 - 06:07 AM, said:

But I didn't want you to have more effective LRM's - I wanted to have an option to use an effective weapon myself, which means fighting from 300-400m and using direct fire. I don't care if you were nerfed - the weapon is definitely more effective now. Learn to play it.

Here is the rub. DF LRMs are still objectively less effective than other DF weapons. So why even bother using the former?

Your "Learn to play it." jibe effectively just means "Why not just use another more effective weapon?".

Edited by Mystere, 28 March 2019 - 01:11 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

Here is the rub. DF LRMs are still objectively less effective than other DF weapons. So why even bother using the former?

Your "Learn to play it." jibe effectively just means "Why not just use another more effective weapon?".

because they can still be fired IDF and not that many enemies actually have ams and/or ecm? no other weapon in the game lets you shoot at stuff you can't actually see