59 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Wil McCullough, on 28 March 2019 - 09:58 PM, said:

It's pretty survivable in its role as a top-side peeker cos of the high mounts (less exposure). Also cxl. It does crumble quickly if exposed and focused though. One funny thing about it is that the laser vom version is so hot that you take ages to cool down after you alpha. It's funny because opponents forget about you extremely quickly since you spend almost all your time navel gazing behind cover waiting for your heat bar to drop haha.

It's survivable if you're barely getting hits, it's just as survivable as a Locust is. But my take away is that, Roughneck, Warhammer, and Bushwacker are the mechs that are great for spreading damage and have a decent loadout.

The HBK-IIC-A is good for poking, yes i agree, though that's not exactly among the selection.

And on the other note, Crab is actually good for survivability, but depends on how you build it. If you build it other than STD then it won't be that survivable, cause it actually has a narrow profile that makes it easy to stare people down, and there's a variant that allows zombie builds.

[FRAGTAST1C]

How's the Grasshopper? Thus far, my experience has been, "See it jump out of cover, fire and watch it fall down". The damage trading goes both ways, sometimes the 'hopper wins and sometimes if I am ready, I win. Eventually, someone else kills the 'hopper and I'd have moved on from that boring engagement. I don't think I have solo-killed it at all in any mech.

[General Solo]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 March 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

Seriously, man, wind it in. You gave me a piece of advice, I mentioned something that countered it and your comeback was to say something like to shield legs with arms, to which I said something funny. Then you went on to tell me that I shouldn't spread misinformation. Really? Now, I have an attitude problem? What is this SJW-level nonsense?

Hey its not a debate and about come backs like some fake news pollie, its about facts

Fact: Crab does have a rep for been tanky, doh good thinking on the legs

But now I'm not so sure.

To settle this, If you and PhoenixFire55 one v one I guess I will know who is right.
PhoenixFire55 takes a crab and you take a more tanky meadium, maybe assasin or Artic Wolf.

For science


Coz you came across as a know it all and big info and I just wanna be sure you do in fact know it all.
Before I listen to you.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 March 2019 - 01:43 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

OZHomerOZ, on 29 March 2019 - 01:38 AM, said:

Hey its not a debate and about come backs like some fake news pollie, its about facts

Fact: Crab does have a rep for been tanky, doh good thinking on the legs

But now I'm not so sure.

To settle this, If you and PhoenixFire55 one v one I guess I will know who is right.
PhoenixFire55 takes a crab and you take a more tanky meadium, maybe assasin or Artic Wolf.

For science


Coz you came across as a know it all and big info and I just wanna be sure you do in fact know it all.
Before I listen to you.

Why? I'm a terrible pilot. That's no big secret. Just go check the Jarl's List. What I said does hold true 'cause the Crab does have a weak spot. The tankyness could be 'cause most have been saying that it's tanky instead of saying, "Go for its legs". Maybe if someone's willing, for science, of course, take my place in "Trial By Combat"?

[Wil McCullough]

The6thMessenger, on 29 March 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

It's survivable if you're barely getting hits, it's just as survivable as a Locust is. But my take away is that, Roughneck, Warhammer, and Bushwacker are the mechs that are great for spreading damage and have a decent loadout.

The HBK-IIC-A is good for poking, yes i agree, though that's not exactly among the selection.

And on the other note, Crab is actually good for survivability, but depends on how you build it. If you build it other than STD then it won't be that survivable, cause it actually has a narrow profile that makes it easy to stare people down, and there's a variant that allows zombie builds.

Oh. I didn't even notice that the list was chassis specific lol. Mah bad.

[Lily from animove]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 March 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

Isn't the Nova a bit slow for an Omnimech? Correct me if I'm wrong but it runs at 81kph? Can I fit it some ranged weapons or do you think I should go with MPLs? I mean, C-MPLs have 300m or so as optimum range, which is nice but still, any loadout you specialize in?

It's speed is sufficiently fine, most other mediums don't go faster nor most assaults you see.

Also it has some good, but unremovable JJ's on many maps that allow vertical movement you can do nasty things.

Great about the nova is you can play multiple roles, even if they are all Energy based. Double PEP's make it a nice jump shooter. You can even make it go with spl's or micros and have pretty nasty brawl abilities, but thats dangerous and needs really good timing and position.

But even with lasers on many maps you can jump shoot over obstacles. If you do have good map knowledge and know where stuff happens you can petty well flank with those things.

my current default build is 6 CERML's, in one arm, 6 CERSL's in the other. Both each with a group and chainfire. default tactic is also, stick with the fatties (not the LRM ones), scoutjump over obstacles where opps usually are, so they do not run into. if they engage support them, and watch their backs for lights and focus on scaring/killing the lights. Also having an eye on the sky for UAV's.
But the Nova is surely not a mech you can run around very much in the open, people will kill and cripple you quickly. Skillwise I have 3 consumeabls, 2 UAV's one arty. Stuff in the mobility tree, acceleration and breaks. Heat stuff, also, Radar deprivation and Seismic.

Seismic and radar Derp are some of my vital tools. Their purpose is to tell if there is movement on the other side of a hill or obstacle. And radar derp helps a lot with breaking the lock, so your opponent does not know where you go after dropping from a jump or hiding somewhere. Because the major factor is disguising yourself and making unpredictable moves.

[Bud Crue]

Based on your comments so far, I can’t tell what you are going after here.

You ask about “Criteria are Agility, Versatility (can run loadouts that can be good at close range or at 300-400m away), A good balance between Damage (DPS) or Killing Power (Burst Damage) and Survivability (XL-friendly and so on)”. But as folks have made recommendations you imply other criteria being necessary such as “isn’t 81 kph slow for an Omni”, etc. or suggest that a mech like the Crab or Grasshopper or Zeusis are not particularly “survivable” which suggests that (please don’t be offended here) that you have some preconceived notions about these mechs that are already in conflict with the very nature of your OP.

Anyway.

If you want a good mech, that is Agile, versatile, puts out decent damage, with good survivability, then go for an Orion IIC. If you don’t want to run it as a Clan pocket Atlas, you can LRM boat with it, ATM boat with it, or do just about anything in between and its one of the few clan mechs that have actual useful quirks. Only drawback is a need to protect that left shoulder. Easiest mech I have ever leveled. This latest one will be my fourth.

I gotta also say that your preconceived notions regarding survivability of the Crab, Hopper and Zeus are just flat out wrong. If played and built correctly the Crab might be the toughest mech in the game (even and including your observation about the leg weakness), the Hopper is one of the more XL friendly chassis, and the Zeus a side shielding monster. Also, 81 kph-ish is ideal Omni speed, the Nova is one of many that move at the speed and that’s a good thing, especially in CW.

Going back to your original information request, I have all of these mechs but the Jenner IIC and Highlander IIC and they all have their charms. But those that meet all of your apparent criteria the best/most, are imho, the Orion IIC and the Roughneck. Remove multiple build versatility from your criteria and then nearly all the rest can be equally as desirable, with the exception of the Kodiak 3 which, moves in slow motion and is sort of pointless if you have an MKII-B.

[Dee Eight]

GeminiWolf, on 28 March 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

Panther worst mech ever

lol...panthers are the second most tanky IS light after the urbie. They're quite capable as brawlers or fire support mechs.

[Dee Eight]

FRAGTAST1C, on 28 March 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

• Panther PNT-10K(C)
  
• Crab CRB-27B(C)
  
• Grasshopper GHR-5H(C)
  
• Zeus ZEU-6T(C)
  
• Jenner IIC JR7-IIC(C)
  
• Hunchback IIC HBK-IIC(C)
  
• Orion IIC ON1-IIC-A(C)
  
• Highlander IIC HGN-IIC-C(C)
  
• Wolfhound WLF-1(C)
  
• Phoenix HAWK PXH-2(C)
  
• Warhammer WHM-6D(C)
  
• Adder ADR-PRIME(C)
  
• Nova NVA-S(C)
  
• Kodiak KDK-3(C)
  
• Roughneck RGH-1A(C)
  
• Bushwacker BSW-S2(C)

Criteria are Agility, Versatility (can run loadouts that can be good at close range or at 300-400m away), A good balance between Damage (DPS) or Killing Power (Burst Damage) and Survivability (XL-friendly and so on).

Agility criteria eliminates the Kodiak outright also its pretty much limited to dakka of some sort.

The best two that meet the criteria are the Highlander 2C and the Roughneck. The roughneck IS the tankiest inner sphere heavy mech with enough agility and firepower options to turn out 1k damage games easily. The highlander has better agililty than many IS assaults and clan heavies/assaults, while having a good mix of hardpoints and some defensive quirks.

The middle two would be the Orion IIC and the Phoenix Hawk. Both have been covered above by others.

The worst two would the Kodiak and the Grasshopper. Kodiak flunks the agility criteria hard and the grasshopper isn't particularly survivable being among the tallest IS heavy mechs and with inferior offensive and defensive quirks compared to the Grasshopper 5J.

[Sigmar Sich]

Take Zeus.
It's a pretty agile mech, with some fun loadouts for the range you requested. HPPC+MRM40, or SPPC + 3*aSRM6.
Both hands are easy to "feel" with left and right mouse buttons.

[LordNothing]

i was quite happy with the onion. the only other contenders for me were the crab and the warhammer. most of the others were eliminated either because i already owned that particular chassis already, one or more of that chassis, or i simply didnt like them very much. the crab, which i wanted only because i only own one was eliminated. turns out they are more or less interchangeable. the whammy got the axe because i have like 5 of them and its an energy variant. and the loyalty variant should be out for cbills soonish.

GeminiWolf, on 28 March 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

Panther worst mech ever

idk about that, i mean its a crappy light but somehow they are rather hard to kill. id rather have to deal with a commando a flea or a fish than one of these zombie kittens.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 March 2019 - 04:36 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

Just a last try to broker peace between OP and the "Crabs are tanky" crowd...

The legs ARE the weak spots of the Crab. However, that does not make the Crab weak. Just that this is the easiest thing (but not easy) to kill the Crab with. The general package is still quite good. As far as Zombie builds go, I feel the 27 does that better than the 27B.

Either way, as the OP is probably not going to pick a Crab either way, I will stop trying to pimp for my favourite Mech.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Bud Crue, on 29 March 2019 - 03:46 AM, said:

Based on your comments so far, I can’t tell what you are going after here.

You ask about “Criteria are Agility, Versatility (can run loadouts that can be good at close range or at 300-400m away), A good balance between Damage (DPS) or Killing Power (Burst Damage) and Survivability (XL-friendly and so on)”. But as folks have made recommendations you imply other criteria being necessary such as “isn’t 81 kph slow for an Omni”, etc. or suggest that a mech like the Crab or Grasshopper or Zeusis are not particularly “survivable” which suggests that (please don’t be offended here) that you have some preconceived notions about these mechs that are already in conflict with the very nature of your OP.

Anyway.

If you want a good mech, that is Agile, versatile, puts out decent damage, with good survivability, then go for an Orion IIC. If you don’t want to run it as a Clan pocket Atlas, you can LRM boat with it, ATM boat with it, or do just about anything in between and its one of the few clan mechs that have actual useful quirks. Only drawback is a need to protect that left shoulder. Easiest mech I have ever leveled. This latest one will be my fourth.

I gotta also say that your preconceived notions regarding survivability of the Crab, Hopper and Zeus are just flat out wrong. If played and built correctly the Crab might be the toughest mech in the game (even and including your observation about the leg weakness), the Hopper is one of the more XL friendly chassis, and the Zeus a side shielding monster. Also, 81 kph-ish is ideal Omni speed, the Nova is one of many that move at the speed and that’s a good thing, especially in CW.

Going back to your original information request, I have all of these mechs but the Jenner IIC and Highlander IIC and they all have their charms. But those that meet all of your apparent criteria the best/most, are imho, the Orion IIC and the Roughneck. Remove multiple build versatility from your criteria and then nearly all the rest can be equally as desirable, with the exception of the Kodiak 3 which, moves in slow motion and is sort of pointless if you have an MKII-B.

When I asked about that 81kph speed, I wasn't implying in the form of a question. I was genuinely asking to find out. The reason is, I have the Revenant and the Hellbringer, both Heavy clan mechs that are also Omnis. What I should've said is "Mediums" rather than Omnis since the Revenant and the Hellbringer do 81kph as well despite being Heavies while the Nova is a Medium. Lily explained how the Nova can be made an asset by that play-style, which is what I was looking for.

Anyway, that aside, the other mechs I don't have a problem with. I'm stating what I have seen. If even at my low Tier level I make those observations like legging the Crab easily or engagements against the Grasshopper being dull, then I wonder how they play at higher tiers and FW since there too the said mechs should be vulnerable to the same weaknesses. I don't want to broaden the misunderstandings here.

Darakor Stormwind, on 29 March 2019 - 04:43 AM, said:

Just a last try to broker peace between OP and the "Crabs are tanky" crowd...

Either way, as the OP is probably not going to pick a Crab either way, I will stop trying to pimp for my favourite Mech.

Which is your favourite variant of the Crab? I'll buy that and we can have a peace smoke later

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 29 March 2019 - 04:52 AM.

[Bud Crue]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 March 2019 - 04:50 AM, said:

When I asked about that 81kph speed...

Ah. Well then if speed isn’t a big deal then...

Of those mechs I have from the list, I still say the Orion IIC or Roughneck meets all your other criteria the best.

[Phoenix 72]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 March 2019 - 04:50 AM, said:

Which is your favourite variant of the Crab? I'll buy that and we can have a peace smoke later

Excuse me, Sir, that may be how the Secret Society for the Proliferation of Crabs (SSFPoC) works, but we, from the Crab Enthusiasts of Europe (CEE) take a different approach... Tell us what you want to do and we will point out the best Crab for the job...

Jokes aside, do not buy a Mech just because people are annoying you on the board. If I did that I would have 400 Mechs...

If you really want to try out a Crab one of these days, it does depend on what you want to do. I do own all of them, but even I had to give up on skilling the Florentine, because I just could not find a build that works for me.

The 27 has 2 AMS and 5 Energy Hardpoints, as well as Energy range quirks. It works well in mitigating the short range of MPLs, so most people either put 5MPLs on it or 2 LLs and 3 MLs. It is my go to Mech for Lurm heavy days. 2 AMS with 2 tons of ammo used to shoot down around 650-700 missiles before the recent missile change.

The 27B has 1 AMS and 6 Energy Hardpoint, as well as Energy Heat Generation quirks. It is better DPS and less heat, but shorter range. A better Brawler. Less utility.

The SL is the only Crab with jump jets. Great for mobility. 5 Energy Hardpoints and 1 AMS. So it moves a lot better than the rest. I tend to play mine with 2 LLs and 3MLs to take advantage of the added mobility.

[The6thMessenger]

Dee Eight, on 29 March 2019 - 03:59 AM, said:

lol...panthers are the second most tanky IS light after the urbie. They're quite capable as brawlers or fire support mechs.

Then just get a damn urbie.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Darakor Stormwind, on 29 March 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

we, from the Crab Enthusiasts of Europe (CEE) take a different approach... Tell us what you want to do and we will point out the best Crab for the job...

I sooooooo wanna enact the shopping scene from John Wick 2 now

Occasion: Tactical
Mobility: Cutting Edge
Delivery: Precise
Style: Silent
Armour: Robust. Outlasting

[Phoenix 72]

Heh. Well, it is not silent, I am afraid. The AMS does give away your position when you are flanking.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...1dc770851a98f9a

Crab 27 SL. One AMS to give you and your team missile cover while you move into brawl range. Mobility: 3JJs and decent speed. Precision due to the short duration of the MPLs. Targeting Computer for range and crit boost. Standard engine, so capable of Zombie mode. If you manage to twist well enough the loss of both side torso's will just be an inconvenience.

If you want to be more stealthy, drop the AMS and ammo and get a bigger engine and another JJ.

***EDIT: If you feel the need for more speed, take a Light Engine. I do not like them on Crabs because the way the side torso loss reduces your heat management. I would rather run slower than be crippled because of a lucky double Heavy Gauss shot.***

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 29 March 2019 - 07:17 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Despite all the negative rep that the Kodiak has gotten, it's still my go to quad LBX 10 mech that is an alternative to the Sleipnir if you don't want to spend money on a hero. I just wish PGI would fix the over bloated chest hitboxes, since it feels more like a slow giant glass cannon than an armored assault totem mech.

Only other mech I could probably recommend is the Orion IIC since I've heard mostly positive things about it. It'll probably be my next choice whenever we have another event that gives away a free mech.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Darakor Stormwind, on 29 March 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

The SL is the only Crab with jump jets. Great for mobility. 5 Energy Hardpoints and 1 AMS. So it moves a lot better than the rest. I tend to play mine with 2 LLs and 3MLs to take advantage of the added mobility.

SL, the jumping crab is the best crab. In addition to the unique JJs, 3 of the 5 hardpoints are in the head and torso, so you very rarely lose any of these before dying. I run mine with 5 MPLs and an STD engine to make the most out of its zombie potential after losing side torsos, combined with the crab’s ability to spread damage, that is in turn enhanced even more by the JJs of this variant.

The damn thing can survive a surprising amount of punishment.