22 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

hot maps have a disadvantage, one that often leaves some of my favorite maps unplayed. why dont cold maps likewise have a disadvantage? maybe if they had something going against them equal in magnitude to the heat issues of hot maps maybe that will make the selection bias go away. maybe pgi will stop making snow maps and make some maps that actually look like some of the locales described in the battletech novels, rather than canada.

[FupDup]

The cold map "advantage" is that they almost always have good visibility. Most of them also have at least decent terrain layouts.

Hot maps meanwhile usually have awful visibility and terrible layouts (i.e. Cancer Valley and Mordor). You'll notice that Tourmaline and Oasis are picked fairly often despite being hot maps, and that's specifically because they're the only hot maps that have good visibility and good layout.

[LordNothing]

visibility is terrible on way too many maps. tone down the fog, say increase the near distance to a 500m minimum. wouldn't be so bad if the vision modes would compensate for terrible visibility conditions, but they just tend to make things worse.

still the issue remains that this is starting to look like a canada simulator and not a mech combat game.

[Karl Streiger]

LordNothing, on 01 April 2019 - 03:58 AM, said:

still the issue remains that this is starting to look like a canada simulator and not a mech combat game.

well yep you might think that visibility should not be los-tech, don't you. But given the work PGI did with the minimaps (blue toned 2D picture - visibility and usability (other then to say were some "bad blips" are (if your are lucky and recognize the red on the map - usually have my problems) next to zero.

[Mystere]

LordNothing, on 01 April 2019 - 02:54 AM, said:

hot maps have a disadvantage, one that often leaves some of my favorite maps unplayed. why dont cold maps likewise have a disadvantage? maybe if they had something going against them equal in magnitude to the heat issues of hot maps maybe that will make the selection bias go away. maybe pgi will stop making snow maps and make some maps that actually look like some of the locales described in the battletech novels, rather than canada.

PGI can always add 25-75% movement penalties on cold maps, depending on how deep the snow is.

[Khobai]

Mystere, on 01 April 2019 - 06:51 AM, said:

PGI can always add 25-75% movement penalties on cold maps, depending on how deep the snow is. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.png

no thanks. movement penalties arnt fun.

again the solution is simply to go back to random maps. you cant have a bias if its random.



and why is perfect visibility an expectation? thats idiotic. you shouldnt always have perfect visibility.

the issue IMO isnt that trees block visibility its that they dont get vaporized when you shoot them. we need destructible terrain at least so far as trees/buildings and other obvious things that should be destructible are concerned. They need to get rid of the invincible tree BS.

Edited by Khobai, 01 April 2019 - 07:11 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

higher pay for hotter maps?

[MechaBattler]

Add blizzards to mess with visibility. Then watch as everyone whines loudly about it. But I agree with you. Cold maps always get voted in because it's easier to run hot builds. Solution? Remove voting. 100% RANDOM! Then maybe the game won't be as dull dropping on HPG/Grim so often.

[Prototelis]

I don't mind worse visibility, but got damn bloom fog is some ******* cancer. Shouldn't my helmet have some kind of ability to filter out a little of the glare.

Also have a HELLA difficult time seeing the reticle, esp clan side, on the ice maps. LET ME CHANGE THUH COLURS PGI.

Edit; I'm not color blind, my eyes just have difficulty filtering because I worked 3rd shift outside at an airport for like 10 years and it ***** you up.

Edited by Prototelis, 01 April 2019 - 10:57 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 01 April 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

and why is perfect visibility an expectation? thats idiotic. you shouldnt always have perfect visibility.

it's a game, so it should be fair shouldn't it?
So when some guys because of some joke of nature can't see what others see.
With predator view the maps might have been chosen because of map design and not because of readability of the map and oh reading the battlespace - on forest i usually get pampered by a target that I don't see. The contrast is ****** as hell - red dots are invisible - brown grey pixel mechs moving behind grey brown pixel meshes that should be boulders or trees don't help.

Ironically the old forest colony had perfect contrast

[Mystere]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

it's a game, so it should be fair shouldn't it?

If fairness is all people are worried about then a customizable UI is the solution.

However, I doubt fairness is the reason people are complaining about visibility.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 01 April 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

no thanks. movement penalties arnt fun.

again the solution is simply to go back to random maps. you cant have a bias if its random.



and why is perfect visibility an expectation? thats idiotic. you shouldnt always have perfect visibility.

the issue IMO isnt that trees block visibility its that they dont get vaporized when you shoot them. we need destructible terrain at least so far as trees/buildings and other obvious things that should be destructible are concerned. They need to get rid of the invincible tree BS.

the fog they use looks pretty bad, its because the start distance is too low. you get better looking fog if you start the fog further out and ramp it up over a shorter distance. that way close in models dont look all washed out. but it still looks like fog. its less realistic but when has mwo ever tried to be realistic?

[Khobai]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

it's a game, so it should be fair shouldn't it?
So when some guys because of some joke of nature can't see what others see.
With predator view the maps might have been chosen because of map design and not because of readability of the map and oh reading the battlespace - on forest i usually get pampered by a target that I don't see. The contrast is ****** as hell - red dots are invisible - brown grey pixel mechs moving behind grey brown pixel meshes that should be boulders or trees don't help.

Ironically the old forest colony had perfect contrast

huh if visibility is equally bad for everyone how is that not fair?

visibility issues dont single people out. theyre the same for everyone. that makes them perfectly fair.

again always having perfect visibility is an unreasonable expectation. because youre not always going to fight in ideal/pristine environments. Thats not how war works.

the problem isnt that forest maps have trees. Or that tundra maps have snow/fog. THATS NOT A PROBLEM. the problem is the damn invincible trees that dont get destroyed when you shoot them. And the problem is that the vision modes which are supposed to help you see in low visibility conditions are garbage.

PGI needs to make all trees destroyable especially those stupid 4 branch trees on viridian bog. PGI also needs to make their vision modes actually work. And they should require skill point unlocks to use. Because if the vision modes cost something they can be made better than the default vision mode like heat vision used to be when it actually worked. As long as the vision modes are "free" they can never be good and thats a problem.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 07:50 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

huh if visibility is equally bad for everyone how is that not fair?

visibility issues dont single people out. theyre the same for everyone. that makes them perfectly fair.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken, color blind (not the right term) have issues with some contrasts and color combinations.
In two weeks Easter will bring great laugh for my Family, cause I bet my wife is hiding red eggs in plain sight - and I will need a eternity by finding them, its necessary that I scan every square inch - on the other hand, so the same with grass green eggs and I will find them faster than a normal eye.

I'm the most cases its or an issue, but even in Canyon I did run into problems by inta rubbing a friendly Centurion - blue Dorito was not visible against the blue sky... So ECM so enemy so Double 20s into the guts.
A configurable or at least 3 pre configured HUD colors would be enough to solve any issues. Forest or Bog vs ECM would still be bad but not as bad as it is at the moment

[FLG 01]

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

again always having perfect visibility is an unreasonable expectation. because youre not always going to fight in ideal/pristine environments. Thats not how war works.

This is not a war, it is not even a simulation of war. We are playing (emphasis on play) a very artificial scenario set in the BTU, and that's it.

Also, the ranges of our 'super advanced' night vision and heat vision devices are pitiful; our (real life conptemporary) tanks mount better stuff right now in order to cut through fog and darkness.
The sight impairments we have to suffer are just as artificial as the whole scenario and thus superfluous. They are just a pain and need to go.
_

Edited by FLG 01, 02 April 2019 - 10:49 AM.

[MechaBattler]

It is a game. But no where is it written you must have perfect visibility in the game. Poor visibility is a challenging feature of a map. I'm sure Pubg or any number of FPS will gladly accommodate you with clear visibility. But we're supposed to be mechwarriors. Hell why don't we just remove all features from the map? Make it a flat white plane. Then it'll be perfectly fair!

[FupDup]

MechaBattler, on 02 April 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

It is a game. But no where is it written you must have perfect visibility in the game. Poor visibility is a challenging feature of a map. I'm sure Pubg or any number of FPS will gladly accommodate you with clear visibility. But we're supposed to be mechwarriors. Hell why don't we just remove all features from the map? Make it a flat white plane. Then it'll be perfectly fair!

That would not be fair at all. Long-range weapons would reign supreme. The terrain allows people to flank and close in with shorter ranged weaponry. It serves a functional purpose other than reducing quality of life for the sole sake of reducing quality of life.

The "challenge" of a multiplayer game should be coming from the red team.

Edited by FupDup, 02 April 2019 - 10:59 AM.

[Khobai]

Karl Streiger, on 02 April 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

Unfortunately, you are mistaken, color blind (not the right term) have issues with some contrasts and color combinations.
In two weeks Easter will bring great laugh for my Family, cause I bet my wife is hiding red eggs in plain sight - and I will need a eternity by finding them, its necessary that I scan every square inch - on the other hand, so the same with grass green eggs and I will find them faster than a normal eye.

No im not mistaken.

Thats like saying blind people have visibility issues so MWO should have to be braille accessible.

Thats an utterly stupid argument.

Those particular visibility issues arnt caused by the game. Theyre caused by your eyes not being able to discern between two colors. Its your problem not MWO's. I feel bad for people with colorblindness but people without colorblindness shouldnt have to suffer or be inconvenienced by the small minority that are colorblind.

You dont change the whole world to black and white just because a few people cant see in color.

The visibility issues were talking about specifically are the ones EVERYONE experiences. Like the obnoxious trees on viridian bog and forest colony. Or the snow/fog on frozen city. Those are the visibility issues PGI needs to fix by making the vision modes better. That way the game justifies having different vision modes.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 11:19 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Technically terrain features are obstructing shots of long range builds, lowering their quality of life. Why is that so different? Differing visibility should be considered a feature. Just like day and night cycles were a cool feature. Instead people whined about the visibility during the night cycle. Granted night vision isn't great, but it's no supposed to be as good as normal vision during normal visibility.

[Mystere]

FLG 01, on 02 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

This is not a war, it is not even a simulation of war. We are playing (emphasis on play) a very artificial scenario set in the BTU, and that's it.

Where does it say that "playing" should only involve perfect visibility? What's wrong with turning MWO more into a simulation and less an eSports-wannabe?

FupDup, on 02 April 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

The "challenge" of a multiplayer game should be coming from the red team.

In the same light, where does it say that the "challenge" should only come from the read team?

Edited by Mystere, 02 April 2019 - 01:34 PM.