28 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

I think Stealth-Armor is kinda too much of a jesus-box accessory right now. I mean those little buggers are kinda too easy to hide, and the stealth-armor making them harder to see upclose makes them a bit braver than they should be when annoying the team.

Perhaps ECM at counter mode should at least counter the ECM of the Stealth-Armor and force it to cooldown. ECM still has the 120m diameter bubble of influence, meaning the stealth-armor lights should still be not-lockable at a distance. Kit your fleas and PBs with ERML, they should still be not lockable and relatively safe from streaks beyond 120m of the ECM user.

[Curccu]

IMO stealth armor should be defeatable by same means as ECM

[cheapcamper]

No stealth Jesus box clothing should not be nerfed in anyway given the slot wasted to make it happen

[PhoenixFire55]

No.

[Vellron2005]

Stealth armor is bad for the game as a whole.. and since it got buffed it got even worse.. super-power like ability without drawbacks..

So yes.. it should definitely be countered by anything that disables ECM, like UAV or Counter ECM..

[Prototelis]

^lol

Nah, stealth armor mostly fine. The only significant advantages it confers is turning off auto aim which is why that dude hates it.

Edited by Prototelis, 02 April 2019 - 01:41 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Anything that disables ecm should disable stealth. Doing so, stealth heat should be removed to balance it.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 02 April 2019 - 01:38 AM, said:

Stealth armor is bad for the game as a whole.. and since it got buffed it got even worse.. super-power like ability without drawbacks..

So yes.. it should definitely be countered by anything that disables ECM, like UAV or Counter ECM..

Lol. It's not really that strong as you think. Use it on Thanatos, it's hardly going to be that effective unlike when you kit it on a flea or PB. It's mostly about the combination of mechs.

Prototelis, on 02 April 2019 - 01:40 AM, said:

^lol

Nah, stealth armor mostly fine. The only significant advantages it confers is turning off auto aim which is why that dude hates it.

Personally, I'm fine with it, I really don't expect homing missiles to actually be effective to it, and that's the point of Stealth Armor. Make it any weaker than it is by default, then there's less point in taking it, when it's already hard to bring it.

Make it counerable by ECM though, it becomes less of a jesus-armor so users have to be weary in using them within ECM. ECM could be better used offensively.

[Maddermax]

No, lights need a few advantages, given that they’re the lowest scoring and lowest used class generally. However, I do think TAG locks should work even under ECM, as it’s manually marking the target with a laser, not relying on other forms of electronic detection.

I would also be OK with the ECM bubble (but not stealth) being disabled when going into stealth, but then again the low signal warning is usually the only way you know a stealth light is about, so it’s a double edged sword. Perhaps allowing Active Probe to detect stealth mechs at the same range as shut down mechs, but not being able to lock onto them (so getting a flickering red box) would be good, so you can at least track a stealth light when it’s running on a dark map, and try to get a TAG on it.

Edited by Maddermax, 02 April 2019 - 02:13 AM.

[Acersecomic]

By ECM? No. Consider Stealth to be material and armor shape made to deflect sensors.
The reason TAG or NARC can counter it is because those paints a point in space, not counting the Stealth itself but rather a point to be shot at.
Makes sense and is perfetly fine.

[The6thMessenger]

Acersecomic, on 02 April 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

By ECM? No. Consider Stealth to be material and armor shape made to deflect sensors.
The reason TAG or NARC can counter it is because those paints a point in space, not counting the Stealth itself but rather a point to be shot at.
Makes sense and is perfetly fine.

It's funny, cause they require ECM. If it was nothing more than shape that deflect sensors, that would actually makes sense, and it would make even more sense if Stealth Armor is active all the time.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 April 2019 - 02:24 AM.

[Maddermax]

The6thMessenger, on 02 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

It's funny, cause they require ECM. If it was nothing more than shape that deflect sensors, that would actually makes sense.

I haven't looked into the lore much, but the stealth armor works with the ECM to mask the signals. Essentially the armor provides the ability to mask better than normal ECM, but you still require the ECM to actually run everything, and mask your electronic signature.

[Kroete]

Acersecomic, on 02 April 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

By ECM? No. Consider Stealth to be material and armor shape made to deflect sensors.
The reason TAG or NARC can counter it is because those paints a point in space, not counting the Stealth itself but rather a point to be shot at.
Makes sense and is perfetly fine.

But then it would also make sense to give the old heat back,
sa makes you also invisible to heatvision, so it contains heat but not radiates heat,
using sa should prevent radiating heat like it was.

Hardcounters are bad, we had hardcounter ecm and they learned nothing from it ....

[Bud Crue]

Only change I would like to see to stealth armor mechanic is that stealthed mechs have a more distinctive visual signature when viewed under heat vision. Yes, not as distinct perhaps as a regular freely dissipating mech, but still, there ought to be something -since they are dissipating heat at least since PGI changed that mechanic.

Edited by Bud Crue, 02 April 2019 - 04:17 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

One mechanic I would like to see (but way to hard to implement given PGI's talent pool) is that as more and more of the armor is destroyed, the 'mech becomes less and less stealthed.

After all, it's the armor that's stealthed, not the internal components...

EDIT: Also, as the 'mech gets hotter and hotter, it should become more and more visible to heat vision as well.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 April 2019 - 05:47 AM.

[Lotspeech]

but, what about the tag laser? why do we need to add more features to the game to counter gimmick equipment that not many people run anyway. Especially when counters already exist.

[Dimento Graven]

kamichiwa343, on 02 April 2019 - 06:07 AM, said:

but, what about the tag laser? why do we need to add more features to the game to counter gimmick equipment that not many people run anyway. Especially when counters already exist.

Remind me again, what's the direct counter to stealth?

[Mystere]

Did a whole bunch of MWO players just suddenly lose their eyesight?

[JediPanther]

The number of stealth lrms op is still zero. mahaha! oh crap! Forget you read this. I have to go reload my lrms err wax on wax off.

[Khobai]

1) ecm should not grant stealth. thats still utterly stupid. only stealth armor should grant stealth.

2) ecm counter mode should not counter stealth armor. Only BAP should counter stealth armor because thats what bagel active probes are SUPPOSED to do: detect things that dont want to be detected. BAP shouldnt just detect stealthed mechs at short range though it should help you detect them at long range as well (the range you detect stealth should be based on a % of your max sensor range with BAP adding an extra bonus).

3) ecm shouldnt even have a counter mode. it should only have disrupt mode. because all the reasons ecm has a counter mode in MWO, such as countering other ecm from granting stealth or jamming missile locks, shouldnt even exist in the first place. because ecm shouldnt grant stealth OR jam missiles to begin with.

4) ecm should replace counter mode with ghost mode. ghost mode would be a new mode that creates fake radar contacts possibly with a holographic model as well. thats one of the things ecm is actually supposed to do...


The problem with ECM bubble stealth is that it creates an effect with a power level thats disproportionate to its tonnage. It also makes homing missiles even more situational by adding another layer of counters to them that simply doesnt need to exist. Streaks/LRMs are bad enough without all the additional counters.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 08:43 AM.