47 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

So, to even the Direct fire playing field now what LRMs have to be played like ATMs, can we get Reactive and Responsive armor that works like AMS Vs. Laser and Ballistic fire?

Do you guys think it would be a fair way to curb those huge Laser alphas and double Heavy Gauss shots?

Make it work like AMS, so that the bigger the damaging shot, the more effective it gets?

Do you DF-ers think that would be cool?

[cheapcamper]

I reckon it could actually be cool to be offered more options. Who knows it might encourage a more diverse build that encourage players to have build with more diverse weapon type!

I doubt PGI will do it in the near future thou and the balancing is going to be a nightmare

[Prototelis]

Yeah, introduce different armors thats cool.

Making them absorb greater amounts of damage from things that kill you the most? Hah no.

[The6thMessenger]

So you're still but hurt with AMS and Stealth Armor?

Anyways, sure, the Laser Reflective Armor might be a good idea for personal use, but just as I don't approve of AMS shutting down missiles entirely, I don't approve of armors shutting down actual DF weapons entirely or so powerful that they are a staple of meta builds.

Lasers' are the gold-standard, they are the weapons that are easy to use and put on builds, they shouldn't be completely nullified. However it would be an interesting meta change to have Laser Reflective Armor shifting the meta a bit away.

Hardened Armor would be a cool addition for tank builds, it's going to be a staple in my Atlases and Urbies.

[Kroete]

Prototelis, on 02 April 2019 - 01:43 AM, said:

Yeah, introduce different armors thats cool.

Making them absorb greater amounts of damage from things that kill you the most? Hah no.

Iam with you about a ams nerf !

Edited by Kroete, 02 April 2019 - 02:41 AM.

[Lotspeech]

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Do you DF-ers think that would be cool?

have you ever considered that the reason that so many counters exist is because its so freaking broken. It amazes me that people like you can abuse one of the highest dps weapons in the game and still be salty. if your having trouble with your playstyle and expecting things to change without you changing yourself, then that is the definition of lunacy. Don't expect others to change for you. overcome and adapt. quit whining

Edited by kamichiwa343, 02 April 2019 - 06:23 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Does this mean we'll also introduce idf mechanics for ballistics so you'll be able to hit mechs with 10 pieces of cover between you and them? And also bounce lasers off clouds to hit mechs that can't even see you and are behind cover?

[Nesutizale]

IIRC every special armor in BT comes with a drawback. I think for laser armor it was weaker to balistics and the other way around.

Also no special armor ever made any weapon completly useless. Less effective, yes but not useless.

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 02 April 2019 - 06:25 AM, said:

Does this mean we'll also introduce idf mechanics for ballistics so you'll be able to hit mechs with 10 pieces of cover between you and them?

That's called "artillery".

[Verilligo]

Vellron2005, on 02 April 2019 - 01:05 AM, said:

So, to even the Direct fire playing field now what LRMs have to be played like ATMs, can we get Reactive and Responsive armor that works like AMS Vs. Laser and Ballistic fire?

Do you guys think it would be a fair way to curb those huge Laser alphas and double Heavy Gauss shots?

Make it work like AMS, so that the bigger the damaging shot, the more effective it gets?

Do you DF-ers think that would be cool?

You... you do realize that reactive armor would also impact missile damage, right? That it would be another occasionally-active nerf to missiles as a whole? I mean, okay, but I'm not entirely sure you've thought this out fully.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Verilligo, on 02 April 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

You... you do realize that reactive armor would also impact missile damage, right? That it would be another occasionally-active nerf to missiles as a whole? I mean, okay, but I'm not entirely sure you've thought this out fully.

also.. I wonder what he does need armor at all for? I mean.. if everything wents according to plan, he'll never get shot anyway.

[Khobai]

Verilligo, on 02 April 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

You... you do realize that reactive armor would also impact missile damage, right? That it would be another occasionally-active nerf to missiles as a whole? I mean, okay, but I'm not entirely sure you've thought this out fully.

no lol. it wouldnt be difficult to make reactive armor reduce ballistic damage and not missile damage.

your limited mindset that says reactive armor HAS to work against BOTH ballistic and missile damage, and cant be any other way, is the problem.

reactive armor can literally work any way PGI wants it to work. it can work against only ballistic weapons if PGI is so inclined.


although personally im against the idea of turning the game into mechlab rock paper scissors. you should never win the game in mechlab just because you chose reflective armor and the other guy chose a laser boat. thats exactly the problem with missiles and ams now and its really bad for the game.

if defensive techs are added they should only provide the barest minimium protection to justify their weight/crits and nothing more than that. right now AMS is way too good for 1.5 tons.

Nesutizale, on 02 April 2019 - 06:28 AM, said:

IIRC every special armor in BT comes with a drawback. I think for laser armor it was weaker to balistics and the other way around.

having drawbacks just makes the rock paper scissors problem even worse.

it would be better for gameplay just to have a lesser benefit instead of a greater benefit with a severe drawback.

for example, make reflective armor reduce energy damage by 20% without a drawback. Instead of 50% with a severe drawback that makes autocannons wreck you. that way its just a soft counter instead of a hard counter with a drawback that allows other people to potentially hard counter you as well.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 08:11 AM.

[FupDup]

Nesutizale, on 02 April 2019 - 06:28 AM, said:

IIRC every special armor in BT comes with a drawback. I think for laser armor it was weaker to balistics and the other way around.

Also no special armor ever made any weapon completly useless. Less effective, yes but not useless.

Reflective armor has no effect on non-energy weapons. It does however increase physical collision damage and is more vulnerable to AP ammo.

Most of the time the drawback to special armors is just taking up critslots and/or being a bit heavier than normal armor.

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 07:53 AM, said:

no lol. it wouldnt be difficult to make reactive armor reduce ballistic damage and not missile damage.

your limited mindset that says reactive armor HAS to work against BOTH ballistic and missile damage, and cant be any other way, is the problem.

reactive armor can literally work any way PGI wants it to work. it can work against only ballistic weapons if PGI is so inclined.

Reactive armor is supposed to only affect missiles and artillery, not ballistics. If you swap it out then the future Ballistic-Reinforced Armor loses its only role.

[Vellron2005]

My point was - how many Laser and Ballistic users that gloat now over how "effective" AMS is Vs LRMs, would be happy if a similar mechanic stopped their favorite weapon dead in its tracks..

PGI si all big on "putting stuff more in line with other stuff" - so where is the nerf to lasers and ballistics relative to how much damage you're taking?

Seriously PGI.. please put AMS "more in line" with not being a god-shield.

And no, I would not be opposed to reactive and reflective armor as options.. Give Lurmers some "AMS-like protection" too..

Edited by Vellron2005, 02 April 2019 - 09:51 AM.

[Verilligo]

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 07:53 AM, said:

your limited mindset that says reactive armor HAS to work against BOTH ballistic and missile damage, and cant be any other way, is the problem.

Not MY limited mindset. The limited mindset of the lorehards. Dude, how many years have you been here? You know how much of a fuss would be thrown if they added reactive armor and it didn't reduce missile damage? We'd get braindead rants about staying true to tabletop until the cows come home. I don't have a problem changing it to whatever is wanted, but going up against the slavish devotion to TT is a trial in frustration that I'm sure you're familiar with.

[Lotspeech]

A LRMers AMS like protection is the enemy actually has to look at you to kill you, not just spam squares through walls. not to mention its not like LRM boats cant use AMS too

Edited by kamichiwa343, 02 April 2019 - 10:48 AM.

[Prototelis]

Vellron2005, on 02 April 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

My point was - how many Laser and Ballistic users that gloat now over how "effective" AMS is Vs LRMs, would be happy if a similar mechanic stopped their favorite weapon dead in its tracks..

lol no. Actual aim users have to expose to do damages. AMS usage has died down, stop crying.

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PGI si all big on "putting stuff more in line with other stuff" - so where is the nerf to lasers and ballistics relative to how much damage you're taking?

You must only pay attention to patch notes that pertain to auto aim. Dakka and lasers have been subject to several nerfs over the last few years.

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Seriously PGI.. please put AMS "more in line" with not being a god-shield.

AMS is not a god shield, top kek metas didn't suddenly all switch to having AMS.

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And no, I would not be opposed to reactive and reflective armor as options.. Give Lurmers some "AMS-like protection" too..

Stay with the team, share armor. Now you're protected and have helped mitigate damage the entire team is taking.

Edited by Prototelis, 02 April 2019 - 11:12 AM.

[Potatomasher69]

I honestly wish we could just slot more armor. A single slot item you equip that lets you put up to (20?) more points of armor in that component.

[FupDup]

Potatomasher69, on 02 April 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

I honestly wish we could just slot more armor. A single slot item you equip that lets you put up to (20?) more points of armor in that component.

http://www.sarna.net...i/Modular_Armor

Modular Armor:
>1 ton
>1 slot
>20 points of armor (TT was 10, MWO is doubled armor)
>Both factions
>Speed penalty (to be determined)

Edited by FupDup, 02 April 2019 - 11:42 AM.

[Khobai]

modular armor would have to work differently in MWO though

Youd have to somehow incentivize placing modular armor in arm and leg locations over torso locations. otherwise people would just put it in their torso every time.

You could just offer 4 different options for modular armor:
CT: +20 armor
STs: +12 armor to each ST
Arms: +10 to each arm and +5 to each ST
Legs: +15 armor to each leg

Then thered be a reason to put it in different places depending on the mech.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 11:51 AM.